Canon EOS M System Announced

bbb34

5D mk V
Jul 24, 2012
156
173
Amsterdam
One day, when electronic viewfinders become more pleasant to use than optical viewfinders, DSLRs will go away, like twin-lens reflexes did long time ago.

Until then, I just love to use a DSLR for stills. Who cares about specs? ;D

Yet, the later DSLRs already offer a lot of functions in live view only, or are more usable in live view: video, under water, on tripod,
or in the hands of people who are not used to OVF.
There, with the optical view finder off, the DSLRs loose their advantage.

I could imagine the EOS-M well as my next video and repro camera.



cu,
BBB
 
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wickidwombat said:
ro_n said:
After watching the Tech Radar video I think the AF performance of this "touch me to shoot" function cannot compete.
It took nearly 1 second to grab focus while this is achieved on e.g. a GF3 in max. 2 tenth of a second.
I think the review was so boring it even bored the camera thats why it was so slow off the mark :p
You mean, for re-awakening from hibernate-S5 that was pretty fast? ;D
 
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Rodknee

EOS M50
Apr 2, 2012
39
0
This costs more than a 650d so why would somebody buy it over the 650d other than size of which there seems to be a large choice out there of smaller cameras that are more competitively priced. A lot of posts talk about the glass being an important part of picture quality so 650d scores there, it also has a swivelling screen and a built in flash so scores there. I read that it has a 31 point AF system which could be a big advantage but why wouldn't Canon have put that in the 650d if it is the same sensor - I guess that will be in the 70d?
 
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elflord

EOS RP
Aug 2, 2011
692
0
rpt said:
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

Should be 1.6 (so that the 22mm would be an effective 35mm).

I'd expect that there would be a third party available adapter for FD (and pretty much every other mount) very soon, so you could skip FD to EF. Stacking two adapters doesn't seem like the right solution here.
 
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AG said:
Remember these are being aimed at people that are coming from Phones as their primary source of camera.
If it is no more versatile than a camera phone than what is the point.

AG said:
Its a limitation that people learnt to deal with.
You're apologizing for a design failure. I prefer better designs, especially when the add on cost is trivial.


AG said:
Do the average users really need over 18MP?
remember the 1100D is still only 12MP so for these users this is a considerable jump. Plus 18MP means consumers can get away with relatively small capacity SD cards. You start bumping that up to 22,24 or heaven forbid 36MP and the large file sizes and future storage issues give average consumers a reason to buy the other model.
You're justifying and apologizing for a failure of Canon technology. Cannon is behind in sensor technology. they need to catch up.
 
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t.y. said:
Does anyone know if flange distance affects lens design/quality? I'm wondering if there might ever be EF-M lenses better than their EF/EF-S equivalents.

The flange distance itself doesn't affect lens design/quality too much - it is the minimum possible distance between image (here sensor) plane and the last optical element.

The smaller the last-optical-element-to-image-plane distance the higher the flexibility to place optical elements at their optimum position. The EF-M-mount/CSC-concept will open a lot of options for totally new lens designs which will - hopefully - increase the overall (technical) quality of the images created with these lenses.
 
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C

Canon-F1

Guest
mb66energy said:
t.y. said:
Does anyone know if flange distance affects lens design/quality? I'm wondering if there might ever be EF-M lenses better than their EF/EF-S equivalents.

The flange distance itself doesn't affect lens design/quality too much - it is the minimum possible distance between image (here sensor) plane and the last optical element.

The smaller the last-optical-element-to-image-plane distance the higher the flexibility to place optical elements at their optimum position. The EF-M-mount/CSC-concept will open a lot of options for totally new lens designs which will - hopefully - increase the overall (technical) quality of the images created with these lenses.

it IS more difficult to get good borders when the lens is very close to the sensor.
that´s why leica needed a special sensor with mircolenses for the M9.
 
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Mar 21, 2012
243
0
gmrza said:
AG said:
Do the average users really need over 18MP?
remember the 1100D is still only 12MP so for these users this is a considerable jump. Plus 18MP means consumers can get away with relatively small capacity SD cards. You start bumping that up to 22,24 or heaven forbid 36MP and the large file sizes and future storage issues give average consumers a reason to buy the other model.

At 18MP, you already need fairly decent glass to get a sharp image. While the difference between 18MP and 24MP is academic, a 36MP APS-C sensor would need glass, the cost of which, entry level users could not justify. Besides, how many 24x36" prints do most users make? - This isn't a camera designed to produce professional results. I think a 18MP sensor is more than fit for purpose. If you need higher IQ, then rather go full frame.

Not targeting you specifically, but in camera talk people often talk about IQ alongside mp. MP has bearing over one thing only: maximum output size. It by itself has little or nothing to do with image quality. That is where the obsession with mp size has come from because people confuse resolution for quality.
 
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tntwit

Enthusiastic Amateur
Mar 3, 2012
101
0
WNY
UrbanVoyeur said:
AG said:
Remember these are being aimed at people that are coming from Phones as their primary source of camera.
If it is no more versatile than a camera phone than what is the point.

How can you say an interchangeable lens camera is no more versatile than a camera phone that cannot change lenses? Can you add an external flash to a camera phone? I have a droid X and can tell you it takes lousy photos and forget it if they move.

Some of the comments here are of no surprises since at least some of the folks here are of the mindset that nothing less than a 5D III is even capable of taking pictures, so something along the lines of a mirrorless camera is nothing more than a paperweight in their minds.

It may not be for everyone, but it has it's place in the market.
 
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Canon-F1 said:
mb66energy said:
t.y. said:
Does anyone know if flange distance affects lens design/quality? I'm wondering if there might ever be EF-M lenses better than their EF/EF-S equivalents.

The flange distance itself doesn't affect lens design/quality too much - it is the minimum possible distance between image (here sensor) plane and the last optical element.

The smaller the last-optical-element-to-image-plane distance the higher the flexibility to place optical elements at their optimum position. The EF-M-mount/CSC-concept will open a lot of options for totally new lens designs which will - hopefully - increase the overall (technical) quality of the images created with these lenses.

it IS more difficult to get good borders when the lens is very close to the sensor.
that´s why leica needed a special sensor with mircolenses for the M9.

I think you have mixed two things.

Leica lenses have been made for film which absorbs light just in the case that light hits the film under small angles. And they have used a mirrorless design for their 35mm film cameras. Microlenses in the center of the sensor are centered on their corresponding pixels but going to the edges of the sensor, microlenses are shifted towards the center to increase the amount of light which hits the sensor. This mainly avoids vignetting. So far I agree with your post.

I spoke about the REAR ELEMENT of the lens, meaning that the last element can be placed near the sensor. This doesn't mean that this lens element is small - look at the lens design of the EF-M 2.0 / 22:
http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/lineup/ef-m/ef-m22-f2stm/spec.html
The rear element has a diameter of 25 mm (!!!) despite the aperture is just 11 mm. That means that the last element can direct the light nearly perpendicular onto the sensor for a large fraction of the sensor area. And that element is placed around 15mm from the image plane - never possible with a EOS 40D or 650D or whatsoever. Here the EF-M/CSC-concept helps - the MTFs on the same web page speak for themselves.

Best - Michael
 
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I need video and this means I need a new camera body. After looking around about specs/infos about the EOS M system I see one really disgusting detail: roughly 250 shots with one battery charge (EOS 650D: 440, EOS 7D: 800) - this is not good especially for video. And price per battery is around 75$ !
If I buy that camera I see myself lugging around a EOS M with net adaptor for power supply, a 12V to 220V converter and a lead battery in the backpack :mad:

The rest is acceptable if you use the EOS M + 22mm as high image quality compact and the EF-EOS M adapter for videography. One detail about the adaptor: 110 grams without tripod mount - the tripod mount is detached/attached with only one screw. That is good news if you want to remove the tripod mount for compactness - e.g. if you want use the EOS M with the EF-S 60mm or the EF 40mm.
 
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rpt

EOS R6
Mar 7, 2012
2,769
14
India
wickidwombat said:
rpt said:
wickidwombat said:
rpt said:
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

no glass so no modifier

you should get an edmika FD-EF adapter that will fix that and you will keep maximum image quality too
I found the page on Flickr. At $165, I'd save that for a prime. Thanks anyway. Am curious about the focus confirm chip though. On an FD? Need to do more reading...

TrumpetPower, AG, thanks for your inputs.

i've got it on my 600 FD f4.5 works great and the $1400 for a mint condition 600 f4.5 is pile cheaper than buying a current 600 :) its a fun lens
it always reports exif as canon 600mm f4.5
Now you are tempting me again :)
So you shoot manual focus and Tv?
Any shots you can share?
 
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wickidwombat

EOS R5
Oct 27, 2011
4,543
1
rpt said:
wickidwombat said:
rpt said:
wickidwombat said:
rpt said:
So with the mount for EF lenses does the focal length multiplier stay at 1.6? Or is it going to be more than that? My FD to EF converter has a multiplier of 1.25. Kills the wide angle end...

no glass so no modifier

you should get an edmika FD-EF adapter that will fix that and you will keep maximum image quality too
I found the page on Flickr. At $165, I'd save that for a prime. Thanks anyway. Am curious about the focus confirm chip though. On an FD? Need to do more reading...

TrumpetPower, AG, thanks for your inputs.

i've got it on my 600 FD f4.5 works great and the $1400 for a mint condition 600 f4.5 is pile cheaper than buying a current 600 :) its a fun lens
it always reports exif as canon 600mm f4.5
Now you are tempting me again :)
So you shoot manual focus and Tv?
Any shots you can share?
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=5103.0
Here is one I posted before shot with a 1d3 I just shoot manual using spot metering
I'll get some more recent shots and pop them up
I use tge 5d mk2 more now with it because it has the brightscreen which really helps
 
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M

martin982

Guest
Im not sure if this has been mentioned before but I would have loved to have seen the 90ex hotshoe flash that comes with the camera to be radio controlled from the eos-m, so you could use it off camera in full ettl mode this would really bring a more proffessional look to your images and open up so many more possibilites for creative lighting with a point and shoot!! just image a small light point and shoot camera in one hand and a tiny flash in the other, with reliable radio sync, it would be heaven. :) I know the 90ex can be used as a master unit, and pretty much replaces the st-e2 unit, but it works on an unreliable optical system which is ancient technology! Plus you would need to carry around the eos-m the 90ex AND a flash gun that can work as a slave (430ex) then it doesnt make it very easy to carry around, which is the whole point surely. without this flash feature I cant really see the point of a seperate flash, they might aswell of put a pop up flash in there. Dont get me wrong I do love the look of the camera I would love it as my go everywhere camera but for the price I would have to think very long and hard about it.

Just my thoughts,

Martin
 
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tntwit said:
How can you say an interchangeable lens camera is no more versatile than a camera phone that cannot change lenses? Can you add an external flash to a camera phone? I have a droid X and can tell you it takes lousy photos and forget it if they move.
Canon had a chance to do the extraordinary and once again settled for the ordinary.

I realize that the camera has interchangeable lenses and hot shoe. And those are nice things. But without an articulated screen, there's only one way to hand hold it and almost no way to steady it without a tripod or monopod. Which makes it the equivalent of smart phone with extra lenses. A very front heavy smart phone.

Oh wait, smart phones have built in GPS and a built in flash. I guess the M is stripped, not equipped.

Canon needs help.
 
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AvTvM

EOS R6
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
UrbanVoyeur said:
Canon had a chance to do the extraordinary and once again settled for the ordinary.
I realize that the camera has interchangeable lenses and hot shoe. And those are nice things. But without an articulated screen, there's only one way to hand hold it and almost no way to steady it without a tripod or monopod. Which makes it the equivalent of smart phone with extra lenses. A very front heavy smart phone.
Oh wait, smart phones have built in GPS and a built in flash. I guess the M is stripped, not equipped.
Canon needs help.

+1
fully agree.
Especially for the intended target group "P&S upgraders" - the EOS-M should have WiFi and GPS built in.
 
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UrbanVoyeur said:
[...]

Canon had a chance to do the extraordinary and once again settled for the ordinary.

I realize that the camera has interchangeable lenses and hot shoe. And those are nice things. But without an articulated screen, there's only one way to hand hold it and almost no way to steady it without a tripod or monopod. Which makes it the equivalent of smart phone with extra lenses. A very front heavy smart phone.

Oh wait, smart phones have built in GPS and a built in flash. I guess the M is stripped, not equipped.

Canon needs help.

I haven't yet used the EOS M camera/system but if
- it delivers very good image quality
- the user interface is at least usable
it might be the high IQ compact for those with existing EF and EF-S lenses. I expect a price of roughly 650 Euro in germany with EF adaptor (100 EUR less than 650D body only).

Uses:
- Camera always in the backpack with 2.8/40
- Macro
- intelligent rear cap for seldomly used 10-22mm (easily fits in a lens compartment of any photo luggage)
- video (I need 3x software zoom for some video sequences, yes, I need 1800mm equiv focal length!)

I see some applications of the EOS M for serious photography. And I am not shure if Canon needs (our?) help.

Best - Michael
 
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