Canon prevents me from buying the 7D Mark II

[Arctic Photo]

I have been a Canon user my entire life. I love the product, including DPP which is my RAW converter of choice.

I presently shoot with a 1D Mark IV and a 5D Mark III, which are fully supported by my present version of DPP. The 7D Mark II requires that I update my DPP.

Here is my problem with that.....

The newer version of DPP does not support my operating system. I run Vista 64. Updating my operating system requires that I go to Windows 8 which needs a clean install. Huge job. Also, I'm not sure that a lot of my current software will run on Windows 8. I have CS4 as well as plugins such as NIK, Neat Image and a slew of other free standing applications.

As much as I was not comfortable with the user interface of Lightroom when I tried a demo last year, I thought I would now have to go that route. Guess what? Right. It's now only available under CC and I refuse to rent software on a monthly fee basis which is why I still run CS4.

I'm 72 years old so I guess my 1D4 and 5D3 will have to do me the rest of my life or until my computer cr@ps out and I have no choice.

All Canon had to do was continue to support the operating system and I would have added a 7D2 to my bag.

Okay..... rant over.

Quit your ranting and do your homework. LR is available as a perpetual license from any number of sources, even in Canada. Adobe themselves even still sell it!

https://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/software._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_catalog_sl_software_sl_mostpopular.html?promoid=KLXMV

Thanks. I did my homework but obviously not as well as you. I searched the Adobe site but never found this link. All I came up with when I searched was the rental option. Appreciate your efforts.

I live in Sweden and will upgrade to the latest version of LR when I get a new computer later this year. I have to say that I also found it very difficult to understand if there are any perpetual licenses out there to buy from looking at Adobe's website so I have to agree with your first statement. Only when I checked with my local store where I buy most of my equipment could they show me that they do sell that. I will never ever rent licenses. Never. It simply doesn't make sense for a private user. For pros, yes.

I'm sorry to read about your troubles with DPP. I hope you'll get it sorted out. I've left the PC-world behind since last year. Only Apple from now on, however my editing computer is still a PC (the last ine to switch), but the next will be an iMac, I will likely take a long time before I consider Windows again.

 

[Harv]

Wow! Obviously there are many of you out there with a ton of knowledge about operating systems. I fell way behind the curve over the years.

In reading everything that has been posted on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that the first thing I need to do is address my computer needs soon. Probably should be doing something about it now.

I am not about to take on a computer build myself due to lack of knowledge and will buy a pre-built, likely from Dell or HP. It appears I can purchase a pretty high capacity machine for the price of a small lens. The best processor with lots of memory. I'll just go for their maximum available build. i7 processor, 16mb memory, etc.. The remaining question for me is which operating system. Dell still offers Win7 along with Win8.

I have heard many advise against Win8. What is the problem people have with it? Which should I be going with?

You guys are the experts. I can use your help with this.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

I'll just go for their maximum available build. i7 processor, 16mb memory, etc..

Ya might wanna go for a little more than 16MB Ram. ;D

 

[Maui5150]

Harv, I understand some of your rants, but seriously? VISTA? That was one of the biggest OS POS since Windows ME. Granted, at least you are running the 64-bit version which at least allows you to access more than 4GB of RAM, but if you are 64-Home Basic and not Premium, you are limited to 8GB which pretty much sucks.

Your issue will not only be Canon, but in the future Hard Drives, what ever replaces Blu-Ray, size of HD, faster memory, video cards, etc. While you often can some times just swap out a motherboard and CPU and use your same install, you can run into drive problems at the hardware level as well. Also be aware that Microsoft really no longer supports Vista. You can get some of their "extended" support, but that is scheduled for termination in early 2017

Like others, I have been building my own for the last 20 years now almost.

I generally use ASUS or ABIT motherboards and AMD processors for the price point. Run at least 16 GB of memory a 500GB SSD for main drive and the what ever for data drives.

Another point for building your own is some of the newer video cards may have support issue, so while most cards may currently support Vista from the last couple of years, that will become harder to find. This will be especially true with 4K cards in the future.

As for me I have a hodge podge... My oldest system is Win 98. It is pretty much grave yarded, but I have some proprietary software from a company that is long out of business. It might get turned on 3 times a year if that. An old laptop I should probably clean and sell, which is Vista Home 64, and my main PC at home and laptop are Win 7 machines.

Machines at work are Win 8.1, and not much of a difference, a few little nuances of how programs are organized, but with win 8.1 you can pretty much still have your old "desktop" which is what freaked most people out.

I have CS 4 for suite LightRoom 4.51 and PS CS6 for software I own. I did do the CC Photog program, and while loathe to pay $10 a month for perpetuity, It is cheaper than the upgrades I was doing on PS and LR every year to two years.

 

[Maui5150]

I ended up purchasing at MicroCenter

If there is a Microcenter near you, highly recommend them, as well if you put a little time in and figure out what you want for hardware, you can save a ton if you time and wait.

If you do build (which is really not that tough) DON'T SKIMP on the power supply. Easily one of the most important components... Smooth, clean, constant power is the lifeblood of the system. I never go below 600W and generally go more 800W or more.

You will pay more building versus buying, but the machine you build, if you build it right will run longer and stronger and much faster because you hand picked the best components.

Order of Importance:

1) MB
2) Memory
3) Power Supply
4) CPU
5) SSD
6) Case
7) Other HDs

Really Memory and Power Supply are probably 1 and 2, but MB is the base and having right number of slots, connections, etc can be important. I have seen a lot of great mother boards that only have a few SATA connections (like 3 or 4) where 6 can be prime. Always nice to be able to add another drive or bay, especially if you want to have more than one Blu-Ray.

6 may seem excessive, but for me.

1) SSD
2) Blu-Ray
3) Main Program HD (3 TB)
4) Archives HD (3 TB) (Music, TV shows, Streamed Content, Back-ups, Install files, etc)
5) Hot-Swap Bay
6) External HD array (6 TB ) - Photos

#5 is one of my faves - allows me to just throw in a 3TB or larger drive and treat like a flash drive for either back up of off site storage of content.

I probably could combine 3 and 4, but I have a ton of FLAC music, like 300GB of AC/DC concerts and video alone. I am also old school and like to have 20% or more free space on my drives

 

[Arctic Photo]

Wow! Obviously there are many of you out there with a ton of knowledge about operating systems. I fell way behind the curve over the years.

In reading everything that has been posted on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that the first thing I need to do is address my computer needs soon. Probably should be doing something about it now.

I am not about to take on a computer build myself due to lack of knowledge and will buy a pre-built, likely from Dell or HP. It appears I can purchase a pretty high capacity machine for the price of a small lens. The best processor with lots of memory. I'll just go for their maximum available build. i7 processor, 16mb memory, etc.. The remaining question for me is which operating system. Dell still offers Win7 along with Win8.

I have heard many advise against Win8. What is the problem people have with it? Which should I be going with?

You guys are the experts. I can use your help with this.

I think if you would consider Mac, then the iMac makes sense. Depending on how much money you are willing to spend, you can stuff the 27" with all there is or go for the 21" version. I think that would be a good option, you can get that with up to 3.1 GHz and 16GB RAM, that should take you a long way. The 27" with 3,2GHz and 16GB RAM should be in the same price range. Of course a fully configured 27" will be faster and better, but it's all down to money.

I spent more than ten years at Dell and swore myself to the PC world, but no longer. I feel that any computer with Windows just keeps getting slower and slower for every pointless update you have to download to it. It took me only a couple of months to get used to the Apple interface.

Good luck!

 

[Harv]

I'll just go for their maximum available build. i7 processor, 16mb memory, etc..

Ya might wanna go for a little more than 16MB Ram. ;D

Right... 'GB' just might serve me better. Guess I had a brain f@rt.

 

[RLPhoto]

Windows 7 x64. It's just works and It will end up living a very long life, possibly like XP.

Windows 8 wasn't ready yet and windows 9/10 will polish everything up to make it a proper release.

 

[sandymandy]

its a really simple job today to change an operating system. you could probably find somebodyo n this board in ur area to do it for you for some small cash too.

 

[ksgal]

Wow! Obviously there are many of you out there with a ton of knowledge about operating systems. I fell way behind the curve over the years.

In reading everything that has been posted on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that the first thing I need to do is address my computer needs soon. Probably should be doing something about it now.

I am not about to take on a computer build myself due to lack of knowledge and will buy a pre-built, likely from Dell or HP. It appears I can purchase a pretty high capacity machine for the price of a small lens. The best processor with lots of memory. I'll just go for their maximum available build. i7 processor, 16mb memory, etc.. The remaining question for me is which operating system. Dell still offers Win7 along with Win8.

I have heard many advise against Win8. What is the problem people have with it? Which should I be going with?

You guys are the experts. I can use your help with this.

The problem with windows 8 is the learning curve. I borrowed a lap top from a friend and was trying just to get to the listing of the applications on the machine.. it is BEYOND frustraiting to navigate with no previous experience or help. I'm sure it is a decent operating system, but I don't want to learn a new way to find all the stuff I know exists already. those tiles drove me nuts.

Try out a windows 8 laptop in the store and see how you get along with it. I'm guessing at 72, it is one more thing you don't want to fight to learn. Windows 7 was different than XP, but not so much you couldn't find or google your way around it. Win 8 made me so mad I didn't even want to try.

Probably a lack of patience on my part, but by golly I don't want to re-learn how to use a computer, the whole point is it is faster than I am and I want it to do things with speed. Not throw a bleeping tiled wall in my way and have me guess my way thru it. (I am definitely waiting for windows 10, if you can't tell already)

Also, you want a min of 8gb ram to go with LR5, and 16 would make it sweet.

 

[danski0224]

Wow! Obviously there are many of you out there with a ton of knowledge about operating systems. I fell way behind the curve over the years.

In reading everything that has been posted on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that the first thing I need to do is address my computer needs soon. Probably should be doing something about it now.

I am not about to take on a computer build myself due to lack of knowledge and will buy a pre-built, likely from Dell or HP. It appears I can purchase a pretty high capacity machine for the price of a small lens. The best processor with lots of memory. I'll just go for their maximum available build. i7 processor, 16mb memory, etc.. The remaining question for me is which operating system. Dell still offers Win7 along with Win8.

I have heard many advise against Win8. What is the problem people have with it? Which should I be going with?

You guys are the experts. I can use your help with this.

You could always go for a Xeon processor

Storebought stuff is fine as long as you do not venture too far out of the mainstream. Then, you have to know what you are looking for.

Options add up quick.

You may get a fast processor, but a small or slow L1 cache.

Slow (RPM or SATA) HDD.

The really inexpensive computers are set up to meet a price point. These machines are more than good enough for surfing the web and email, but may not do so well for photo processing.

Business class hardware from Dell or HP is in another league, and you could configure it pretty much how you want it, if you want to go that route.

Future add-ons (not replacement upgrades) for many pre-configured major OEM machines will be difficult to impossible. That is one major difference between getting your own motherboard and building a system vs buying one at a consumer price point. The extra stuff on OEM motherboards does not get installed, neither do the connectors. There won't be any extra wires or headroom in the power supply, either.

If you choose to buy a system and want the SSD+HDD setup, make sure you order it that way. You can upgrade the SSD or HDD components yourself later, but configuring the SSD+HDD system on your own from just a single HDD or single SSD is challenging.

A discrete graphics card can make a difference. Check the Adobe site for compatible cards.

Watch the software licensing and feature level. If the license is keyed to a single HDD or motherboard, you cannot upgrade without obtaining a new license. You may want to read up on the different licenses and product levels at the Microsoft website.

W8 operates differently on a touchscreen enabled computer vs a non-touch laptop.

W8 is different, that's about it. I like it on a touch enabled device, I do not have it on a non-touch device.

You may want to head to a store to see if any non-touch W8 devices are available to mess with. I wouldn't consider W8 a dealbreaker, it just takes a bit to familiarize yourself with it. The computer OEM's had to offer a choice to preserve sales.

 

[Harv]

We're going to build one. I have a friend who is a bit of a geek and has been through it. He's offered to help spec out the components and get stuff together. In the weeks ahead, I hope to have it all together.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[wickidwombat]

I have been a Canon user my entire life. I love the product, including DPP which is my RAW converter of choice.

I presently shoot with a 1D Mark IV and a 5D Mark III, which are fully supported by my present version of DPP. The 7D Mark II requires that I update my DPP.

Here is my problem with that.....

The newer version of DPP does not support my operating system. I run Vista 64. Updating my operating system requires that I go to Windows 8 which needs a clean install. Huge job. Also, I'm not sure that a lot of my current software will run on Windows 8. I have CS4 as well as plugins such as NIK, Neat Image and a slew of other free standing applications.

As much as I was not comfortable with the user interface of Lightroom when I tried a demo last year, I thought I would now have to go that route. Guess what? Right. It's now only available under CC and I refuse to rent software on a monthly fee basis which is why I still run CS4.

I'm 72 years old so I guess my 1D4 and 5D3 will have to do me the rest of my life or until my computer cr@ps out and I have no choice.

All Canon had to do was continue to support the operating system and I would have added a 7D2 to my bag.

Okay..... rant over.

sounds like a good time to switch to apple

i was a long time windows user and bought the mac due to superior build
still ran windows via bootcamp for a few years while i adjusted to it now i still have windows 7 via parallels for
the very rare occasion i need it but now i could imagine going back to a windows os

it did take me a couple of years and lots of swear words at apple to get used to mac os though so its not as straight forward as the marketing BS suggests. And every time i hear someone say mac just works i want to stab them. As macs do crash and although far less frequently than windows but its usually a spectacularly annoying crash when it does happen.

I have used windows 8 on my parents computer and it really is so badly made i just want to throw the thing out the window its that frustrating.

 

[danski0224]

We're going to build one. I have a friend who is a bit of a geek and has been through it. He's offered to help spec out the components and get stuff together. In the weeks ahead, I hope to have it all together.

Thanks for all the input.

Cool. It's easy to get caught up in the "upgrade" mode and spend more money...

Lots of info over on Seven Forums- check it out.

A fast processor and SSD can get to the Windows splash screen faster than you can get into BIOS if there are issues with your build (even if you enable the features that are there to slow things down enough to get to BIOS). That said:

(1) Consider a motherboard with a legacy PS/2 port

(2) There may be a specific USB port that gets power first, read the MOBO manual

 

[Harv]

We're going to build one. I have a friend who is a bit of a geek and has been through it. He's offered to help spec out the components and get stuff together. In the weeks ahead, I hope to have it all together.

Thanks for all the input.

Cool. It's easy to get caught up in the "upgrade" mode and spend more money...

Lots of info over on Seven Forums- check it out.

A fast processor and SSD can get to the Windows splash screen faster than you can get into BIOS if there are issues with your build (even if you enable the features that are there to slow things down enough to get to BIOS). That said:

(1) Consider a motherboard with a legacy PS/2 port

(2) There may be a specific USB port that gets power first, read the MOBO manual

The i7 processor and an SSD is at the top of the list, along with Windows 7.

What is the purpose of a PS/2 port?

 

[danski0224]

P/S2 is a legacy wired mouse or keyboard connection.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

(1) Consider a motherboard with a legacy PS/2 port

What are the advantages of a PS/2 port these days?

 

[RLPhoto]

I have been a Canon user my entire life. I love the product, including DPP which is my RAW converter of choice.

I presently shoot with a 1D Mark IV and a 5D Mark III, which are fully supported by my present version of DPP. The 7D Mark II requires that I update my DPP.

Here is my problem with that.....

The newer version of DPP does not support my operating system. I run Vista 64. Updating my operating system requires that I go to Windows 8 which needs a clean install. Huge job. Also, I'm not sure that a lot of my current software will run on Windows 8. I have CS4 as well as plugins such as NIK, Neat Image and a slew of other free standing applications.

As much as I was not comfortable with the user interface of Lightroom when I tried a demo last year, I thought I would now have to go that route. Guess what? Right. It's now only available under CC and I refuse to rent software on a monthly fee basis which is why I still run CS4.

I'm 72 years old so I guess my 1D4 and 5D3 will have to do me the rest of my life or until my computer cr@ps out and I have no choice.

All Canon had to do was continue to support the operating system and I would have added a 7D2 to my bag.

Okay..... rant over.

sounds like a good time to switch to apple

i was a long time windows user and bought the mac due to superior build
still ran windows via bootcamp for a few years while i adjusted to it now i still have windows 7 via parallels for
the very rare occasion i need it but now i could imagine going back to a windows os

it did take me a couple of years and lots of swear words at apple to get used to mac os though so its not as straight forward as the marketing BS suggests. And every time i hear someone say mac just works i want to stab them. As macs do crash and although far less frequently than windows but its usually a spectacularly annoying crash when it does happen.

I have used windows 8 on my parents computer and it really is so badly made i just want to throw the thing out the window its that frustrating.

I did the exact opposite. I dumped apple in 06 because of them being like apple is. Out date the hardware and software over a short period of time forcing users to buy new machines. IE: G5 iMac users at the time when apple moved to intel.

OSX is free now but before adobe and apple have this thing where the newest abode software required the newest OSX, which meant another reason I'd have to get a new machine just to run new version of PS. For what reason? I saw windows users being supported for XP for eons but 10.4 tiger now lacked support?

I knew of a print shop still running CS2 creative suite because he bought a slew of G5 Imacs but didn't want to upgrade because now he'd have to buy all new machines. He eventually moved to win7 machines and never looked back knowing he'll get software support for years.

Apertures user got left hanging, FCP X had a backlash, Mac pro users no longer can use PCI peripherals internally anymore (pro audio cards) and now have to buy external solutions, and the list goes on and on.

However, OSX is a very beautiful OS. It's fast and efficient but so is win 7. For me, I loved apples design of software and hardware together for a time but now they dropped the software part for professional users. What's the point?

 

[dstppy]

I have been a Canon user my entire life. I love the product, including DPP which is my RAW converter of choice.

I presently shoot with a 1D Mark IV and a 5D Mark III, which are fully supported by my present version of DPP. The 7D Mark II requires that I update my DPP.

Here is my problem with that.....

The newer version of DPP does not support my operating system. I run Vista 64. Updating my operating system requires that I go to Windows 8 which needs a clean install. Huge job. Also, I'm not sure that a lot of my current software will run on Windows 8. I have CS4 as well as plugins such as NIK, Neat Image and a slew of other free standing applications.

As much as I was not comfortable with the user interface of Lightroom when I tried a demo last year, I thought I would now have to go that route. Guess what? Right. It's now only available under CC and I refuse to rent software on a monthly fee basis which is why I still run CS4.

I'm 72 years old so I guess my 1D4 and 5D3 will have to do me the rest of my life or until my computer cr@ps out and I have no choice.

All Canon had to do was continue to support the operating system and I would have added a 7D2 to my bag.

Okay..... rant over.

sounds like a good time to switch to apple

i was a long time windows user and bought the mac due to superior build
still ran windows via bootcamp for a few years while i adjusted to it now i still have windows 7 via parallels for
the very rare occasion i need it but now i could imagine going back to a windows os

it did take me a couple of years and lots of swear words at apple to get used to mac os though so its not as straight forward as the marketing BS suggests. And every time i hear someone say mac just works i want to stab them. As macs do crash and although far less frequently than windows but its usually a spectacularly annoying crash when it does happen.

I have used windows 8 on my parents computer and it really is so badly made i just want to throw the thing out the window its that frustrating.

I did the exact opposite. I dumped apple in 06 because of them being like apple is. Out date the hardware and software over a short period of time forcing users to buy new machines. IE: G5 iMac users at the time when apple moved to intel.

OSX is free now but before adobe and apple have this thing where the newest abode software required the newest OSX, which meant another reason I'd have to get a new machine just to run new version of PS. For what reason? I saw windows users being supported for XP for eons but 10.4 tiger now lacked support?

I knew of a print shop still running CS2 creative suite because he bought a slew of G5 Imacs but didn't want to upgrade because now he'd have to buy all new machines. He eventually moved to win7 machines and never looked back knowing he'll get software support for years.

Apertures user got left hanging, FCP X had a backlash, Mac pro users no longer can use PCI peripherals internally anymore (pro audio cards) and now have to buy external solutions, and the list goes on and on.

However, OSX is a very beautiful OS. It's fast and efficient but so is win 7. For me, I loved apples design of software and hardware together for a time but now they dropped the software part for professional users. What's the point?

BUT, you must admit the IBM -> Intel switch was a one-time thing. The only people that say you have to upgrade is your software vendors. When Apple got rid of Rosetta, they finally had a fully 64-bit OS. The biggest complaint about windows about people who understand what is going on under the hood (other than the fact that the registry even exists) is that there's so much legacy garbage moving forward.

Honestly, if the shops had even tried to upgrade those G5s when the new hardware came out and sell the old, the transition wouldn't have cost that much; it's not the same thing as 'investing' in PCs. First of all, we're talking 2005; if they're high end ones and still working, they are still worth around $200.

For a business (and even at home) it's not a one-time purchase. If you need high-end machines, you're better off either leasing or building your own and constantly swapping out parts when new technology comes out, that way you can sell 'last years' model for a nominal difference. Macs are like High-End video cards: there's a used market and the value drop is pretty predictable.

The problem is, even in the company that I work, they don't treat hardware as a rotating cost, and use older equipment until it literally dies, then sometimes repair it. If they were to analyze productivity loss over the years, they'd realize that keeping hardware at the front of the curve is much cheaper than using it until it dies.

 

[LDS]

The newer version of DPP does not support my operating system. I run Vista 64. Updating my operating

So it's ok upgrading the camera even if you already have two very good ones - but not upgrading a an old OS (released in 2007), the only one unanimously regarded worse than Windows 8?

From a developer perspective, there are many new features which became available only from 7 onwards (i.e. better support for high DPI displays, color management). while Vista market share is only around 3%, making the effort to support it not so appealing.

If your software runs on Vista 64, it will run on 8 and 7 as well (you can downgrade your OS but with some OEM licenses). LR is still available as a standalone product outside CC. Scroll to the end of the page, and you'll find a link to buy LIghtroom 5 standalone. It won't run on Vista too, anyway.

Today the digital workflow is not the camera only - software plays its role as well. Complaining because we can't use the latest camera on outdated OS looks a bit unfair to me. I understand we all prefer to spend money on the toys we like most and not on something we may regard as "not so imporant", but sometimes we need to accept realilty.