Canon RF 300-600mm Update…. Again

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Here we go again! Just like when marginally lower DR was going to sink them. Why not cite Nokia or Kodak - go the full cliché.
Once Canon improved their low ISO DR (after many years of being behind Sony and Nikon in that particular metric, despite continuing to lead the camera market), the trolls needed some new hobby horse to ride.

For a while it was ‘Canon is so late to mirrorless they will never catch up’, but of course they did, and now hold a solid lead (though obviously some delusional trolls continue to deny that).

Then the argument du jour became a lack of third-party lenses, which has now become a lack of full frame third-party lenses.

Trolls gonna troll.
 
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In contrast, yours do have decent contrast and sharpness.
Contrast can be adjusted in post if the ISO isn't too high and sharpness is largely about nailing focus, which is hard. None of the mirrors are as sharp as equivalent refractors, but some are decent and the new 250mm TTartisans is actually very decent, so with modern Canon tech, I suspect a mirror could be quite good and if AF could be made to work reliably, we could have an interesting lens. The bokeh can be distracting in some scenes and very creative in others, so not always bad.
 
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Contrast can be adjusted in post if the ISO isn't too high and sharpness is largely about nailing focus, which is hard. None of the mirrors are as sharp as equivalent refractors, but some are decent and the new 250mm TTartisans is actually very decent, so with modern Canon tech, I suspect a mirror could be quite good and if AF could be made to work reliably, we could have an interesting lens. The bokeh can be distracting in some scenes and very creative in others, so not always bad.
Do I recall you once had the Minolta AF mirror lens?
 
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sharpness is largely about nailing focus, which is hard.
It's hella hard when hand held and things don't wait.

Temperature also has a huge effect on the cheap mirrors, in my experience. It's not just acclimation, although that minimizes heat shimmer, but I think that the assembly also assumes a particular climate — like that of the region making the lens, such as Shenzen or Masan. Slapping on a lens heater sleeve to warm all of the components, even on cool summer days, tends to help a lot when I can tripod the lens, such as to catch birds at nesting houses. My Opteka performs best when the mirror and front reflector are both at around 28C.
 
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What is your opinion of the 100-300mm - 2x at f/5.6?
…you posing the question spurred me to order a second copy of the RF 2x that I will test against my first copy.
Also, thanks – your timing was fortuitous. At about 7:30a local time this morning, I happened to check CPW for a Canon-refurbished RF 2x. It wasn’t listed with CPW’s top-line post on the current Canon refurb sale, but I searched up CPW’s entry for the 2x and clicked the link to find it in stock at Canon for $450 (vs the current new price of $690). So I bought it…

Checked this afternoon, turned out that CPW highlighted the refurb 2x just after 8a, and it was sold out by 1:30p.
 
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Do I recall you once had the Minolta AF mirror lens?
I have the Minolta 500 f/8. I think I posted a sample in the bird series. I have speculated getting a copy of the Minolta 800, but so far have not as they are a bit pricey for pastime experiments. Ditto for the Minolta 250mm f/5.6, but I did spring for the TTartisans 250mm f/5.6, which is an improved clone of the Minolta and much cheaper. It has also caused the Minolta prices on eBay to drop by about 50%. The Minolta 500 is one of the sharper mirrors I have, but it does not close focus like some of the others. I think the Canon 500 f/8 is the sharpest by nose and the Nikon 500 f/8 and 1000 f/11 are close seconds with the Minolta right in there. Can post samples of any you are curious about. They are all much more usable on mirrorless than on SLR.
 
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I have the Minolta 500 f/8. I think I posted a sample in the bird series. I have speculated getting a copy of the Minolta 800, but so far have not as they are a bit pricey for pastime experiments. Ditto for the Minolta 250mm f/5.6, but I did spring for the TTartisans 250mm f/5.6, which is an improved clone of the Minolta and much cheaper. It has also caused the Minolta prices on eBay to drop by about 50%. The Minolta 500 is one of the sharper mirrors I have, but it does not close focus like some of the others. I think the Canon 500 f/8 is the sharpest by nose and the Nikon 500 f/8 and 1000 f/11 are close seconds with the Minolta right in there. Can post samples of any you are curious about. They are all much more usable on mirrorless than on SLR.
I have an Opteka 500 and a Samyang 900. Obviously they don't hold a candle to modern normal lenses, but they are fun when I want a distraction. I don't tend to edit them beyond in-camera settings for this reason. If they're soft they're soft — if I want clinically sharp I grab an appropriate tool.

But with these in-hand, I've wondered about some of the older mirrors, which I've read were of calibre when typical mirror characteristics are accounted for. I'd be interested in seeing (probably not in this thread, to avoid annoying people staying on-topic) any in-camera shots that you have of what are in your opinion good editions. I say in-camera because I'm not interested in what Photoshop can do with the image, I'm interested in what the glass in good hands can achieve.
 
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I may have had my Japan market numbers mixed with global numbers, or my numbers may have been out of date. Regardless, I do not expect Canon's anti-consumer stance to be a good thing for the company long term. When you hate your customers and try to bleed them for all they've got, most of them eventually figure it out.


Canon does not dominate the market. They have slightly more market share than Sony. Based on the limited data we get such as Amazon or B&H rankings, this is due to the very high volume of low end junk cameras like the R50 and R100 that Canon effectively shovels out the door. Sony does not compete well at those price points right now. I'm not sure if Sony will start to produce junk tier cameras like that as well, but I suppose if there is profit there, they might.
Oh my God, Canon hates me!
This makes me so sad I could cry all night long!
Time to jump ship and get tenderly loved ❤️💘💖 by sweet Sony!
 
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I have an Opteka 500 and a Samyang 900. Obviously they don't hold a candle to modern normal lenses, but they are fun when I want a distraction. I don't tend to edit them beyond in-camera settings for this reason. If they're soft they're soft — if I want clinically sharp I grab an appropriate tool.

But with these in-hand, I've wondered about some of the older mirrors, which I've read were of calibre when typical mirror characteristics are accounted for. I'd be interested in seeing (probably not in this thread, to avoid annoying people staying on-topic) any in-camera shots that you have of what are in your opinion good editions. I say in-camera because I'm not interested in what Photoshop can do with the image, I'm interested in what the glass in good hands can achieve.
It is not an issue of Photoshop. Lightroom is not creating anything the lens didn't capture, but rather adjusting the ratios of the information that is already there. "In-camera" is very different from RAW to JPEG. You have to do a fair bit of correction in Lightroom to bring a RAW file to match the in-camera JPEG since most camera JPEG engines to quite a bit of "fitting" to get exposures to fit into the 8 bit JPEG space. I always shoot RAW, so Lightroom is always in the mix. I will admit that running Topaz sharpening is pushing the envelope a bit since Topaz uses AI to extend detail a bit beyond what you could nominally recover, but it is still not "Photoshopping" in the classic sense. As an aside, I think the mirrors I mentioned in my response to Alan are much better than either of the ones you identified above. The Opteka and Samyang are both made by Samyang and the newer ones have been made very cheaply (and poorly). The TTArtisans 250mm f/5.6 is an exception as it is actually quite good and not crazy expensive. I see photography as an art form, which is to say I am not trying to exactly recreate the image that was seen by the eye (impossible in any case, because there is no available display mechanism with enough DR), but rather to create an image that tells the story of what I saw when I looked at the scene.
 
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Canon does not dominate the market. They have slightly more market share than Sony. Based on the limited data we get such as Amazon or B&H rankings, this is due to the very high volume of low end junk cameras like the R50 and R100 that Canon effectively shovels out the door. Sony does not compete well at those price points right now. I'm not sure if Sony will start to produce junk tier cameras like that as well, but I suppose if there is profit there, they might.
Let's not put Sony on some sort of pedestal when it comes to high quality as opposed to junk. Their first two generations of mirrorless cameras like the A7 and A7 II were often referred to by reviewers and buyers as "Beta" releases. They were an embarrassment. I, too was swept up by the "Sony way ahead' forum baloney of the time and gave Sony a try. Very dull EVFs, Cameras in which all shots were a minimum 1 stop underexposed, as well as virtually non-existent weather sealing and ergonomics that were completely uncomfortable. From what I understand from some of today's reviewers, the EVFs (as well as back screens) still use cheaper glass and are not as bright as the competition, the ergonomics, while improved, are still poor. They had a class-action suit filed against them a few years ago because their shutters were breaking early and often, and another lawsuit was filed because they were putting serial number stickers on their lenses, rather than engraving the serial number into the lens. Users sending their lenses in for repair under warranty were denied warranty service because the lenses did not have serial numbers - the stickers had fallen off. So, plenty of junk coming from Sony - as well as a total lack of ethics - just look into their unethical practices when it came to CDs.
 
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I have the Minolta 500 f/8. I think I posted a sample in the bird series. I have speculated getting a copy of the Minolta 800, but so far have not as they are a bit pricey for pastime experiments. Ditto for the Minolta 250mm f/5.6, but I did spring for the TTartisans 250mm f/5.6, which is an improved clone of the Minolta and much cheaper. It has also caused the Minolta prices on eBay to drop by about 50%. The Minolta 500 is one of the sharper mirrors I have, but it does not close focus like some of the others. I think the Canon 500 f/8 is the sharpest by nose and the Nikon 500 f/8 and 1000 f/11 are close seconds with the Minolta right in there. Can post samples of any you are curious about. They are all much more usable on mirrorless than on SLR.
Have you used it on a body on which it will AF?
 
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