Canon said to have scrapped at least one DSLR in development [CR2]

[Del Paso]

I really hope they make a 60Mpix 5DSR replacement with the RF mount, then also make this the 7D replacement. 60Mpix with 5 fps should equal almost 13 fps in 1.6crop mode (23 Mpix). There's no mirror to be slapped, so the fps should only be limited by the processing power of the Digic CPU. As the current Digic can do 30Mpix @ 8 fps (no focus), a dual Digic 8 would be more than capable of reaching 60Mpix@5fps and 23Mpix at 13.

And I' m hoping for less MP since for macro photography I need f 8 or f 11 (don't forget diffraction).
To me, this continuous hunt for more MP reminds me of what happened to hi -fidelity, when almost everybody "needed" 500 watts in his living-room...
Does everybody need 8 x 10 (yards !) ?

 

[PerKr]

As for the XX0D and XXD series replacements being M-mount... I don't think so. It's a good mount if you want a compact camera I suppose. But with RF being the big mount Canon need entry-level bodies using this mount as well. Plenty of enthusiasts start out with a lower series camera and work their way up to the more expensive options as their financial situation improves. Being stuck with M-mount in that situation would suck, especially considering the competition have a range of bodies and lenses that will allow you to evolve within the same mount.

 

[AlanF]

Me too.

I shot with a D850 for a few days, and there are quite a few things I like on that camera for birding. I'd love to see some of those features in a future 5D series -- including not having to choose between higher megapixels and higher framerates. Such a camera would high on my list.

The D850 has got it right, enough megapixels without an AA-filter and Nikon are throwing everything at new telephoto lenses.

 

[jolyonralph]

Do you own one and are dissatisfied because of its mirror?

Yes I do, and yes I am.

It adds unnecessary vibration when doing high-resolution macro photography which is why I bought it. I have to use mirror lockup and a multi-second delay to kill all vibration and then multi-shot stack images take ages.

Electronic shutter as on the EOS R is a gamechanger for this.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

The AF in the Eos R is very lacking and the "photographer's experience" is appalling. So no...I would not be looking for a 5Dx mirrorless replacement. If you think Canon wold ditch their sales...then you have been drinking too much EOS R marketing kool aid. DSLR's are here to stay, as is Eos R. One is not a replacement of the other but both have their place in the market.

What about the AF on the EOS R do you find lacking? The speed, accuracy, and ability to focus in poor lighting is the one thing that keeps me coming back to the EOS R in spite of its usability issues.

 

[cayenne]

I can see replacing the 5Ds with mirrorless. Not so sure about the 6D.

I was of the thought, that this first EOS-R *IS* the mirrorless replacement for the 6D.....? It doesn't seem to be beefy enough to be the replacement for the 5D series......

C

 

[schmidtfilme]

The 6D MK II is still a fairly new version. Any new version will depend on the sales of the EOS R, and seems unlikely to me. I'd say that its the most likely version in current development to have been scrapped before too much money was invested.

Unfortunately I see it the same...

 

[hazydave]

I agree. After all, when shooting video they can read the sensor 60 times per second.... Dual digic chips.... another Digic chip dedicated for AF..... It's not like Canon has never done this before.....

You may have noticed the severe crop you get in 4K, eh? In HD, it's line skipping. They never read the whole sensor in video modes. But is it speed, heat, or both?

I think Canon may have a heat problem in their current sensors. Itvwas a complete no-brainer to include IBIS in any camera being put up as a Sony A7 alternative. Just about every new high end camera at Photokina had it, other than the EOS R. Low speed can account for the lack of a full frame readout, either sensor speed or processor speed. But that has no effect on IBIS.

Heat, on the other hand, is an issue with IBIS. Sony has had overheating problems with full frame IBIS and video. No reports of that with Nikon, and of course, the Panasonics aren't out yet. And Sony did just about cut power consumption in half between the A7 and the A7III. They have been 2-3 generations ahead of Canon on sensor fabrication, and if they just recently solved the heat issues, pretty much a guarantee that Canon has more work to do.

 

[hazydave]

I can see replacing the 5Ds with mirrorless. Not so sure about the 6D. It will be few years before a replacement comes along, but right now, with the 6DII selling for about 60% of the price of mirrorless, I can see Canon keeping it in the lineup for quite some time. Canon has set the expectation for an entry level full frame to be around $1,200 in the U.S. Mirrorless would have to drop significantly in price to meet that expectation. Canon could just keep the 6DII in the lineup for an extra 2-3 years and let the price drop to $1,000 or less, as they watch the market and see if mirrorless is really going to take hold.

7DIII will be a DSLR and likely the 90D as well. There are too many improvements needed in mirrorless technology before these cameras, along with the 5D and 1Dx, can be shifted to mirrorless.

You have to pay close attention to Sony, they don't play the game the way everyone else does. So yeah, the A7III is around $2K, making the 6DII look pretty good at $1300 for a full frame. But Sony keeps all their old gear on the market for years. They introduced the RX100VI this year and only took the original RX100 off the market about a month ago.

So bottom line, right now, the A7II is about $1000, the A7RII about $1600, nicely sandwiching the 6DII. Oh, and that A7II price includes a kit lens. That's what Canon and Nikon have been up against.

 

[unfocused]

In my opinion the big mess is, that R lenses can not be used on M Cameras...

I don't disagree, but I also believe that not having a "R" lens to EF mount adapter is a bigger problem. Some say it's not possible, and I don't know enough about the technology to disagree, but from a practical matter, I think this will hold back a lot of professionals from converting to "R" lenses and at the very least create a lot a resentment among their most lucrative and loyal customers.

Would I consider buying an "R" body and lens and then eventually start converting my entire system over to "R" if I could use those lenses on my 5DIV and 1DX II? Yes. Would I buy an "R" body and start duplicating all my lenses in the "R" mount? A resounding "No!"

My strategy (which is not good news for Canon) is to get through the next generation of DSLRs and see how things shake out. I probably won't be investing in any new EF lenses unless something really compelling comes out (the mythical 150-500 f5.6), but I also won't be duplicating my kit with R bodies and lenses. I'm old enough that the next generation of DSLRs will probably last until I'm too old to take pictures.

 

[unfocused]

You have to pay close attention to Sony, they don't play the game the way everyone else does. So yeah, the A7III is around $2K, making the 6DII look pretty good at $1300 for a full frame. But Sony keeps all their old gear on the market for years. They introduced the RX100VI this year and only took the original RX100 off the market about a month ago.

So bottom line, right now, the A7II is about $1000, the A7RII about $1600, nicely sandwiching the 6DII. Oh, and that A7II price includes a kit lens. That's what Canon and Nikon have been up against.

Yes. And, thinking about this a bit more, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 6DII remain on the market for years as Canon's bargain full frame ILC. The price with a 24-70 f4 kit lens could well settle in at close to the A7II price point in time.

 

[preppyak]

I really hope Canon releases the 90D as a significant upgrade to the 80D, I just don't see the advantage of EVF and staring into a viewfinder with a 1/2" screen while trying to see WTF is going on.

Battery life is what kills mirrorless for me. Sony's a7III gets, at best, about half the battery life of what my 80D does. The previous models were way worse (I was churning through Sony batteries on a trip, while I never even had to charge my Canon). Then there's the over-heating in video, the overly expensive lenses, the slowness of AF with adapted lenses.

In truth, Canon is probably 3-4 years from having a fully realized RF lens line (Sony took ~4-5 years)...It'd be really weird to see Canon suddenly rushing everyone one direction when they usually are the slowest to change

 

[nemophoto]

Having rented an EOS R for a week, I can safely say it does nothing to assuage my impression that mirrorless cameras suck. Maybe in 5 years that opinion will change, but there is nothing compelling about then for me. I used a friend's Sony a7r III and had the same opinion. The feeling I have shooting with these is one of being removed from the scene. I feel like I'm (rightfully so) watching a TV show where there is a slight broadcast delay. Mirrorless cameras are not fast acting. There is a blur in the view finder -- the Sony a9 included. No refresh rate compares with the Mark I human eyeball. I have been a CPS Member since 1982. I am not technologically adverse. I started using Photoshop in 1992. I converted entirely to a digital workflow for work in 2001. I'm a proponent of technology. I do not see where this advances my style of shooting or workflow. I voiced as much at CPS at Photo Expo. I'm sad to see Canon jump so strongly onto the mirrorless band wagon. But I guess we can thank all those who shoot with iPhones for this direction since they all are used to looking through an LCD.

 

[Ian_of_glos]

Having rented an EOS R for a week, I can safely say it does nothing to assuage my impression that mirrorless cameras suck. Maybe in 5 years that opinion will change, but there is nothing compelling about then for me. I used a friend's Sony a7r III and had the same opinion. The feeling I have shooting with these is one of being removed from the scene. I feel like I'm (rightfully so) watching a TV show where there is a slight broadcast delay. Mirrorless cameras are not fast acting. There is a blur in the view finder -- the Sony a9 included. No refresh rate compares with the Mark I human eyeball. I have been a CPS Member since 1982. I am not technologically adverse. I started using Photoshop in 1992. I converted entirely to a digital workflow for work in 2001. I'm a proponent of technology. I do not see where this advances my style of shooting or workflow. I voiced as much at CPS at Photo Expo. I'm sad to see Canon jump so strongly onto the mirrorless band wagon. But I guess we can thank all those who shoot with iPhones for this direction since they all are used to looking through an LCD.

Although I agree with your summary, I am not convinced that Canon have completely jumped onto the mirrorless bandwagon to the exclusion of all other technologies. After all they only have one full frame mirrorless option, and a handful of APS-C mirrorless cameras at the moment. The fact is that Canon have a lot of catching up to do before they have a compelling range of mirrorless products that can really compete with Sony, Fuji, Olympus and the rest.
Canon have not announced that they plan to stop releasing new EF lenses and DLSRs and until they do I feel sure that they will offer their customers a choice, despite all the noise that emanates from the mirrorless fan club.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

Having rented an EOS R for a week, I can safely say it does nothing to assuage my impression that mirrorless cameras suck. Maybe in 5 years that opinion will change, but there is nothing compelling about then for me. I used a friend's Sony a7r III and had the same opinion. The feeling I have shooting with these is one of being removed from the scene. I feel like I'm (rightfully so) watching a TV show where there is a slight broadcast delay. Mirrorless cameras are not fast acting. There is a blur in the view finder -- the Sony a9 included. No refresh rate compares with the Mark I human eyeball. I have been a CPS Member since 1982. I am not technologically adverse. I started using Photoshop in 1992. I converted entirely to a digital workflow for work in 2001. I'm a proponent of technology. I do not see where this advances my style of shooting or workflow. I voiced as much at CPS at Photo Expo. I'm sad to see Canon jump so strongly onto the mirrorless band wagon. But I guess we can thank all those who shoot with iPhones for this direction since they all are used to looking through an LCD.

I agree with you in that I'm not crazy about EVFs. But unfortunately, preserving the OVF is pretty limiting in terms of what a camera could theoretically be capable of. Face and eye recognition will only get better in the future. I'm sure that cameras in the future will begin to back in more and more advanced artificial intelligence features as well. They will probably be able to do things we haven't even thought of a camera being able to do. But all of that relies on the camera being able to see through the lens at all times, making an OVF not really possible.

In addition, once camera manufacturers figure out how to make a high resolution sensor with instantaneous readout, we'll be at the point of having a camera with absolutely no moving parts. No shutter, no mirror, nothing. This will do wonders for reliability. Concern over having a shutter failure will be a thing of the past. Not to mention having nothing in the camera moving makes its ability to have a high framerate pretty much unlimited, as long as the sensor readout and processor can keep up.

Last, I've seen my EOS R focus on things in low light that I know for a fact that my 5D4 never would have been able to. At a certain point you have to face the fact that having a separate sensor for autofocus from the sensor actually taking the photo has always been kind of a cheesy solution. By getting the mirror out of the way, you allow all of the light coming through the lens to go directly to the sensor, which is also handing autofocus, allowing it to focus in much darker conditions than a DSLR could, because half the light was getting diverted up into the viewfinder.

I'm completely with you in that even the very best EVFs still don't feel right to me. There's still a little disconnect. But in a couple months of using the EOS R, I've gotten mroe and more used to it. I'll miss having an OVF, but I can't deny the fact that keeping an OVF stands in the way of a lot of new technology and better performance that will be coming to mirrorless cameras as time goes on.

 

[AlanF]

A 60 MP, and diffraction sets in at f 4???????
Macro photography means at least f 8, so please Canon, give us reasonable MP (50 max!)

The diffraction limited aperture for the 50 mpx 5DSR is f/6.7. A 60 mpx lowers the dla to f/5.6, not f/4.

 

[hazydave]

The AF in the Eos R is very lacking and the "photographer's experience" is appalling. So no...I would not be looking for a 5Dx mirrorless replacement. If you think Canon wold ditch their sales...then you have been drinking too much EOS R marketing kool aid. DSLR's are here to stay, as is Eos R. One is not a replacement of the other but both have their place in the market.

It will be interesting to see what Canon actually does. They did very well outside the USA with EOS M, unlike Nikon and their consumer mirrorless system. But both Nikon and Canon are dead last in the serious mirrorless race. They can expect to get their own users buying mirrorless -- the launch points of both EOS R and Nikon Z seem aimed directly at the Sony A7. But they can't expect many new buyers from outside accepting that the need adapters for most lenses. So if they really want to be competitive with Sony and even Leica/Panasonic/ Sigma, that means building their systems fast.

So, does that leave room for new EF bodies and lenses? And at what pace? Is Canon going to let Nikon get even more of an advantage over them in mirrorless? Are they going to make EF buyers fell like Sony A-Mount users? Is there a middle that doesn't actually do both? And will Canon ever catch up to Sony on sensors: BSI and stacked chips?

 

[hazydave]

Battery life is what kills mirrorless for me. Sony's a7III gets, at best, about half the battery life of what my 80D does. The previous models were way worse (I was churning through Sony batteries on a trip, while I never even had to charge my Canon). Then there's the over-heating in video, the overly expensive lenses, the slowness of AF with adapted lenses.

In truth, Canon is probably 3-4 years from having a fully realized RF lens line (Sony took ~4-5 years)...It'd be really weird to see Canon suddenly rushing everyone one direction when they usually are the slowest to change

Battery life on a DSLR is pretty consistent. I get about 1,000 shots on the 6D no matter what. On mirrorless, it's much more variable. I bought a Sony RX10 last Spring, same battery as the A7 and CIPA rated for 400 shots. At a four day music festival, lots of fast sports-like shooting, I got 2000-2500 shots.

I agree about the system. Not just glass, but a variety of bodies, too, will be needed to flesh out the system. But they have finite resources. Too hard a push leaves the EF users concerned, too weak a push and they wind up in last place among the ever-increasing number of FF mirrorless systems.

 

[Valdormar_Hauslendale]

Being an EOS-1 shooter from the first release back in film days. As long as the EOS-1D line continues.
I do not care about any other builds or form factors. The day Canon decides to scrap the EOS-1D line
is the day I will make my Deardorff 8x10 my main go to camera once again.

 

[tron]

Yes I do, and yes I am.

It adds unnecessary vibration when doing high-resolution macro photography which is why I bought it. I have to use mirror lockup and a multi-second delay to kill all vibration and then multi-shot stack images take ages.

Electronic shutter as on the EOS R is a gamechanger for this.

I understand that this is a special case but then why not live view?
I use my 5DsR for birding and I have no issues with mirror (even at speeds arithmetically lower than lens' focal length by taking advantage of IS).
I use the silent shutter mode. I do not know if that helps with no mirror issues for me.