Let’s talk about the Canon EOS R1 development [CR2]

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
1,868
1,725
Because (I live in South Texas) 70% of the planet has never seen snow or ice, and are pretty clueless about the various sports being showcased at winter olympics (their loss, I agree, I grew up on skis in Switzerland). Summer Olympics are much more popular. I found this online: "The 2010 Winter Games in Vancouver, Canada, were watched by 3.5 million people worldwide. The most recent summer games, held in Rio de Janeiro in 2016, drew in an audience of 3.6 billion viewers."
3.6 billion (which was the entire population of planet Earth in the early 1970s!) versus 3.5 million? A better-than-thousandfold difference? Holy smokes.
 

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,313
502
I think your premise there is simply not matching what's actually going on. It would be news to me if the image signal of each pixel wasn't just the sum of the two half-pixels' values.
On the 5DIV that is certainly not the case - as evidenced by the fact that there is software out there that can use the data from both subframes and improve the dynamic range of the 5DIV by up to a stop. Unless something happened between the 5DIV and the EOS-R that I have not read about.
 

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,313
502
Did you know, this was actually a function in use on the EOS 3.. And that was an analog camera.. I wonder why it hasn’t shown up in digital cameras so far.. I mean, they stopped making the EOS 3 in 2003 or something..
Of what I remember the technology had very mixed reception - whether it was the use people put it to or variability in performance I don't know but even though many were not particularly impressed it certainly had its advocates .
 

Joules

EOS R
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,221
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Hamburg, Germany
On the 5DIV that is certainly not the case - as evidenced by the fact that there is software out there that can use the data from both subframes and improve the dynamic range of the 5DIV by up to a stop. Unless something happened between the 5DIV and the EOS-R that I have not read about.
Well, I think you are misunderstanding something. Your premise is that Dual Pixel architecture means Canon is throwing away half the light of each pixel, right?

Well, from my understanding of the dual raw format, it is actually using the fact that both the sum (which you would get in a regular CR2) and individual value of one of the halves is given. The halfes only have half the capacity, so they are essentially one stop underexposed compared to the sum. This is used in DPRAW extraction to gain 1 stop of highlight DR, by merging the single half value into the sum, where that is clipped. That's just my understanding.

A better proof that combination of the two halfes occurs is probably Canon themselves. Quote:

"During AF detection, the two halves of each pixel -- the two photodiodes -- send separate signals, which are analyzed for focus information. Then, an instant later when an actual image or video frame is recorded, the two separate signals from each pixel are combined into one single one, for image capturing purposes. This greatly improves AF speed over the majority of the area on which you’re focusing." - Source
 
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Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,313
502
Well, I think you are misunderstanding something. Your premise is that Dual Pixel architecture means Canon is throwing away half the light of each pixel, right?

Well, from my understanding of the dual raw format, it is actually using the fact that both the sum (which you would get in a regular CR2) and individual value of one of the halves is given. The halfes only have half the capacity, so they are essentially one stop underexposed compared to the sum. This is used in DPRAW extraction to gain 1 stop of highlight DR, by merging the single half value into the sum, where that is clipped. That's just my understanding.

A better proof that combination of the two halfes occurs is probably Canon themselves. Quote:

"During AF detection, the two halves of each pixel -- the two photodiodes -- send separate signals, which are analyzed for focus information. Then, an instant later when an actual image or video frame is recorded, the two separate signals from each pixel are combined into one single one, for image capturing purposes. This greatly improves AF speed over the majority of the area on which you’re focusing." - Source
Thank you for your explanation - it seems your interpretation is correct. I have found a link that refers to the software I was thinking of (DRSplit).

It seems that it is taking advantage not of the dual pixel arrangement as such but the fact that in Dual Pixel mode, CR2 records two images and the software combines these two images. This seems more akin to a technique I have seen to reduce noise by taking two images and combining them in photoshop.
 

AEWest

EOS RP
Jan 30, 2020
222
262
For what it's worth, I think it will be called the 1R, not R1. This is because there was already an R, so R1 may be a bit confusing. However, starting with the 1 denotes their top level spec'd camera, and then R denoting the RF mount.
 

Joules

EOS R
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,221
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Hamburg, Germany
For what it's worth, I think it will be called the 1R, not R1. This is because there was already an R, so R1 may be a bit confusing. However, starting with the 1 denotes their top level spec'd camera, and then R denoting the RF mount.
Starting with the number also would mess up the naming convention established with the R6 and R5. Those aren't confusing either.

Canon seems to prefer going Mark something now for new models, as even the M line has adopted that with the M50 II and M6 II. So if that is a naming scheme they employ all around their lineup, nothing is confusing here.

The only bodies that got incremental numbers are the X0D and X00D (Rebel in US), and those may not see any more models.

Pre digital, Canon even had models without letters in the name at all in the EOS lineup.
 

canonmike

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Jan 5, 2013
198
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I can only hope my CC's don't overheat just contemplating the announcement of this beast of a camera. It seems that the sleeping giant Canon finally tired of the Sony naysayers out there and continue to come out swinging. After watching many current, mostly overwhelming positive R5/R6 YT reviews, especially for photography, I am drooling in anticipation of a proline R body, whatever they end up calling it. I may not need it but I sure do want it. What a great time to be a Canon user.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS M6 Mark II
Sep 20, 2020
93
56
For what it's worth, I think it will be called the 1R, not R1. This is because there was already an R, so R1 may be a bit confusing. However, starting with the 1 denotes their top level spec'd camera, and then R denoting the RF mount.
The M was the first model in the M line.
The R line is following the same convention.
 

privatebydesign

Garfield is back...
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,193
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Well I have an R5 on loan at the moment and whilst it is undoubtedly a fantastic camera coming from 20+ years of 1 series cameras it feels like a toy. Not saying it is a toy because it pretty much bests my 1DX II‘s in every metric apart from the viewfinder and battery life and build so far. Oh and damn all the buttons are in the wrong place and too close together!
 
Mar 12, 2020
4
3
Welp, sure looks like next year all of my EF glass and bodies are getting sold.

I thought this year was bad enough between the R5 and my RF glass, but with the R1 and all the new RF lenses, 2021 is going to be *expensive.*
EF glass is still stunning I am waiting for people like you to sell there ef glass at silly prices because that is what will happen :), ef glass is already hitting a real low in price and I see it coming down much more, so all good for me because for me it is about end image quality and ef lenses have never failed me yet.
 
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Mar 12, 2020
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I think this whole tech thing with photography has gone too far now, it was once about how to take a great image but now it is about the next best thing with tech, Canon certainly know how to grab those who have all the gear and no idea lol.
 
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zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,029
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I think this whole tech thing with photography has gone too far now, it was once about how to take a great image but now it is about the next best thing with tech, Canon certainly know how to grab those who have all the gear and no idea lol.
I hope your not implying that of H.Jones!
 
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Nelu

1-DX Mark III, EOS R5, EOS R
CR Pro
3.6 billion (which was the entire population of planet Earth in the early 1970s!) versus 3.5 million? A better-than-thousandfold difference? Holy smokes.
He doesn't know what he's talking about!

Check this out:
Vancouver 2010 Olympic Winter Games Global Television and Online Media Overview

"Vancouver 2010 enjoyed the most extensive coverage ever produced for the Winter Games reaching
a record potential audience of 3.8 billion people worldwide. 235 broadcasters and television stations
showed coverage of the Games in 220 territories."
 

koenkooi

EOS R
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Feb 25, 2015
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Joules

EOS R
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Jul 16, 2017
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I think this whole tech thing with photography has gone too far now, it was once about how to take a great image but now it is about the next best thing with tech, Canon certainly know how to grab those who have all the gear and no idea lol.
What would you prefer? If manufacturers stopped offering improved options that make it easier to take sharp, well exposed images images under ever greater range of situations? In that case, there would be no incentive for 'photographers' to buy new products from them, unless they expand their lens collection (only possible to a certain degree for the vast majority) or something they own breaks. It would be an even more saturated market, and most manufacturers would probably collapse.

Also, don't be a gate keeper. Photography is a hobby. Sure, you can also do it professionally, but it's the tech enthusiasts and amateurs that are also driving a good amount of sales in the modern day and age. And they are diverse. Just because they appreciate having the camera ease some aspects of operation, like AF tracking or exposure, doesn't mean they don't enjoy the process of learning to improve their photography. And even if they don't, that should be just fine. Let them take their pictures! Don't use social media if you are allergic to casual photography :)
 

dolina

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Dec 27, 2011
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I think this whole tech thing with photography has gone too far now, it was once about how to take a great image but now it is about the next best thing with tech, Canon certainly know how to grab those who have all the gear and no idea lol.
The 1DX3 replacement is targeted to a different market than of the R5 or R6.

So if there will have a higher fps for still imagery then it has more to do with applications that require better control on the decisive moment.

This body will naturally cost more than $6,500
 

dolina

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It will cost more than $6,500

Continuous shooting will have an fps greater than 20 and a near inexhaustible buffer.

It may use CFExpress cards to be able to write 1-4GB/s of data.

Hopefully battery life would be equal to a 1D body.

Hopefully battery charging will use USB PD charging.