Canon Sales Going Pretty Well in Japan

[Tugela]

I am not a sales figure guy..and I definitely do not have to be reinforced that the cameras, (or camera company) that I know, use and love having to be the best sellers. I don't care. I use what works best for my needs.
I do not know it these sales figures are for gross $ or for units sold.(not good with charts..I have art brain...LOL) .....but if a camera is extremely inexpensive or had a huge price drop it may have a tendency to sell more units. I know that the Canon M experienced a HUGE price drop and I think that the sales of those units soared because of that drop and that may or may not be adding to the numbers that are in those charts. I did not comb the web for substantiating info. I am no expert. Just throwing that thought into the mix. I am sure that the resident Canon sales rep here can stomp all over me for that input! ...but I said it anyway. :-X

Same here, I couldn't tell either what the Y-axis was representing, units, revenue, something else. Either way I was thinking the same thing if it were units. Not all units are created equal with some cameras costs 10x the cost of others.

As for the Amazon tops sales items in certain categories. I've seen enough inconsistent behavior over the years and there is no understanding of the underlying criteria. When the T3i was the top seller forever I assumed it was aggregate data over a long time period. Then one day it was a pre-order item was the top seller. So while the Amazon lists are a fun little gauge I wouldn't use that info as if it were statistically significant or accurate.

It is percentage, so probably units.

 

[Nininini]

Best selling camera in the US is the Canon T5 / 1200D.

Top 12 best selling cameras are APS-C.

The first Fuji is all the way down in spot 49.

The first and only micro 4/3 camera in the top 100 is in spot 74. Irrelevant format almost.

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Interchangeable-Lens-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/12556502011/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_3_281052/179-6403524-2375965

.
Spot 29 is occupied by the Pentax K1000, a camera that was last seen in 1997.

Clearly the conclusion is that the Pentax K1000 is a more popular camera than the Nikon D500!!

That is the problem with those lists.

Eh, clearly you don't know much about the film market.

The K1000 is a very popular camera, always has been.

It's perfectly normal that a very popular camera that can be had for $100 on the second hand market outsells a $2000 Nikon D500. It would actually be abnormal if it didn't.

This camera has more interest than the Nikon on Youtube.

 

[Diltiazem]

The surprising finish for Canon in Japan is third place in mirrorless sales.

In 2014, Canon was in 4th, barely behind Panasonic and trending up.

Where is Fuji in the mirrorless race? I was expecting them to be #1

I think they were at #4 in 2014 with 11% market share as far as I can remember. Over all they are a very small player though. This are last month's numbers. Fuji is no where to be found in top 20.

http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008_month.html

Your recollection is incorrect, insofar as BCN's data for Japan. As I stated, Canon was #4. Fuji fought it out with Nikon for the bottom slot...and Fuji won!

You can also see that Sony's downward and Oly's upward trends continued through 2015, with Oly now on top.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[jebrady03]

And I'm quite impressed by Canon...4th, very close to third 3rd with the M line... I wouldn't have bet on that.

Fixed that.

Yeah, talking about the 2014 numbers there. So, 4th, close to 3rd.

2015 numbers are even more surprising... Oly first with almost 35% of market share ? On the year of the big bad A7mkII and A7rmkII ? And Sony down to 25% ? and Canon 3rd ? That's pretty much taking backwards every prediction on every photo forum.

Djaaf.

Not real surprising what did Sony release in APS-c crop land nothing. A7mII and A7rII were not mass market and likely did not factor in much on sales. Olympus had a real interesting year it was also the first year in a long time there camera division was profitable. It also had a bunch of older cameras go sale.

What we always fail to recognize is the fact that the EOS-m was well placed for its target audience. Young Japanese woman who have more disposable income, small and cute it has sold relatively well from the vary beginning there. That still does not stop us from bashing it because it is not the camera we wanted.

Sony has a6000 and other cheap mirrorless ones as wel. People still talks about how great a6000 and Sony doesn't need replacement.

Hold an A6000 in one hand and an EOS M in the other. Then try and hold back your laughter at the A6000. It FEELS cheap whereas the EOS M feels premium. I owned an A6000 for about 14 hours. It literally creaked when I torqued the body just a little bit. Disclaimer: I don't go around torquing camera bodies, but the build quality and materials made me curious and I just couldn't help myself. My suspicions turned out to be well-founded.

 

[unfocused]

That is primarily because of the rapid increase in average lifespans there since the second world war. Once the older generation start dieing off from old age the overall population size will rebound to its natural state. The same thing is happening in most developed countries that don't have in influx of immigrants, and the same thing will happen in developing countries in the next 50 years.

Not quite. Increased life expectancy doesn't result in population losses. In fact, if all other factors remained equal, it would result in gains.

But, what does happen is that as countries develop the reproduction rate drops as education increases, women join the workforce, the population becomes more urbanized and economies improve.

Women delay starting a family until they have finished school and established a career. Middle income families have fewer children. Less rigid societies means people can choose to have relationships outside of marriage, but those relationships are less likely to result in children. A longer lifespan also means a higher percentage of the population lives outside of the normal range for child bearing.

Japan is fortunate, in that it has a relatively prosperous economy, so many people choose to remain in Japan. In other developed nations, which have weaker economies, the problem is exasperated by out-migration.

There is no reason to think: "Once the older generation start dieing off from old age the overall population size will rebound to its natural state." There is no cause and effect relationship there at all. Children don't magically appear when an elderly person dies. If younger persons don't breed, there aren't going to be any children no matter how many old people die.

 

[bedford]

The reason for all that is because low end consumer models generate the bulk of sales. That is the only reason Canon is in their current position. Sony has focused on high end models which might not sell in the same numbers but have far higher value. They have not updated their mass market products in some time. Canon will need to sell 3-4 MILCs to equal 1 Sony MILC, and their unit sales are 1/3. That means the Sony are generating about 10x the revenue that Canon are in this segment in Japan.

I don't understand your calculation (and probably the logic behind it).

Here in Germany the a6000 costs roughly the same as the M3.

_Both_ companies have claimed in their last financial report, that the effect of a shrinking market has partially been offset by a move to higher value products.

Do you have any numbers to back up your statement that Sony is generating 10 times the revenue with MILC than Canon?

Regards,
Oliver

 

[Loswr]

The reason for all that is because low end consumer models generate the bulk of sales. That is the only reason Canon is in their current position. Sony has focused on high end models which might not sell in the same numbers but have far higher value. They have not updated their mass market products in some time. Canon will need to sell 3-4 MILCs to equal 1 Sony MILC, and their unit sales are 1/3. That means the Sony are generating about 10x the revenue that Canon are in this segment in Japan.

I don't understand your calculation (and probably the logic behind it).

Here in Germany the a6000 costs roughly the same as the M3.

_Both_ companies have claimed in their last financial report, that the effect of a shrinking market has partially been offset by a move to higher value products.

Do you have any numbers to back up your statement that Sony is generating 10 times the revenue with MILC than Canon?

Calculation - Sony sells 3x the units at 3-4x the cost, that means 10x the revenue.

Of course, a predicate for that assumption is that all of Sony's sales are of those high end models, which is contradicted by the facts and by his own statement.

He's also conveniently ignoring the fact that profit and revenue are not synonymous.

 

[infared]

I am not a sales figure guy..and I definitely do not have to be reinforced that the cameras, (or camera company) that I know, use and love having to be the best sellers. I don't care. I use what works best for my needs.
I do not know it these sales figures are for gross $ or for units sold.(not good with charts..I have art brain...LOL) .....but if a camera is extremely inexpensive or had a huge price drop it may have a tendency to sell more units. I know that the Canon M experienced a HUGE price drop and I think that the sales of those units soared because of that drop and that may or may not be adding to the numbers that are in those charts. I did not comb the web for substantiating info. I am no expert. Just throwing that thought into the mix. I am sure that the resident Canon sales rep here can stomp all over me for that input! ...but I said it anyway. :-X

Same here, I couldn't tell either what the Y-axis was representing, units, revenue, something else. Either way I was thinking the same thing if it were units. Not all units are created equal with some cameras costs 10x the cost of others.

As for the Amazon tops sales items in certain categories. I've seen enough inconsistent behavior over the years and there is no understanding of the underlying criteria. When the T3i was the top seller forever I assumed it was aggregate data over a long time period. Then one day it was a pre-order item was the top seller. So while the Amazon lists are a fun little gauge I wouldn't use that info as if it were statistically significant or accurate.

One reason I put that out there that "I personally" think the the Canon M is not a very good mirrorless camera, "for my needs". So while sales figures doesn't mean much to me in the end...I am here posting more out of curiosity. ..more like HUH? I know from surfing a hot surf break, though...cows are going to herd!!! ;D

 

[Nininini]

But, what does happen is that as countries develop the reproduction rate drops as education increases, women join the workforce, the population becomes more urbanized and economies improve.

Women delay starting a family until they have finished school and established a career. Middle income families have fewer children. Less rigid societies means people can choose to have relationships outside of marriage, but those relationships are less likely to result in children. A longer lifespan also means a higher percentage of the population lives outside of the normal range for child bearing.

Japan is fortunate, in that it has a relatively prosperous economy, so many people choose to remain in Japan. In other developed nations, which have weaker economies, the problem is exasperated by out-migration.

There is no reason to think: "Once the older generation start dieing off from old age the overall population size will rebound to its natural state." There is no cause and effect relationship there at all. Children don't magically appear when an elderly person dies. If younger persons don't breed, there aren't going to be any children no matter how many old people die.

That's right. The massive drop in population in Japan (and it's massive, you're talking over a quarter of a million / year), is a result of 3 things:

-women moved from the home to the job market, therefore having less babies
-lack of child support, up until recently Japan didn't truly understand the concept of full day care, a woman is supposed to stay home with their child in Japan, in other countries women can go to work and have day care for their baby, many companies in the West provide on-site day care, including the military
-lack of migration, I think Japan approved 70 migrants last year to become japanese citizens, I forgot the exact number, but it was insanely low. Japan is anti anti anti migration to the extreme. From the politicians down to the population, they refuse to accept any migrants, not even from neighbouring countries.



And the lack of migration is really the biggest problem, because the child births can't be raised easily, since, you simply don't have enough young Japanese women left.

Japan IMPORTS indonsian labor....not for their companies, but to take care of their seniors. But they refuse to give any of those people the Japanese identity, they basically tell those people, to enter Japan to help them with their massively skewed population and old people, but don't accept them into the country. They are purely guest workers.

 

[dak723]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but in case no one has pointed this out about Canon: a) they make reliable cameras, b) their cameras are generally easy to use and set up, c) their cameras take excellent photos.

So it should be no surprise to those interested in photography that Canon does well. On the other hand, if all you care about it specs, pixel peeping, and extreme post processing, then you won't like Canon's offerings. But don't expect everyone to think like you.

 

[dolina]

Decided not to wait and went ahead with this instead.

Just waiting for the Metabones Mark IV to be shipped.

Keep an eye out for this...
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57143930

Thank you for making me aware of this. Will follow the guy's advice of pushing down the unlock button until the lens is firmly in place.

 

[dolina]

I admit I am a little jealous. I just upgraded to the Metabones T Mark IV. What an improvement over the mark III. So now I am making do with the Canon 24f2.8 IS.

Thank you for making me aware of this. Will verify with my HK dealer on this.

Congratulations. I am sure that's a fabulous combination.

My mirrorless set up will be different though. I want it to be really light. So, Canon or not, it will be the camera plus 1-2 pancake style prime lenses and a light weight zoom.

I might stick to Batis lenses on the a7 and leverage my Canon glass with the Metabones

 

[George D.]

With sceneries like this no wonder sales are going well and they always will be. iPhone is sort of a blasphemy there.

 

[raptor3x]

Best selling camera in the US is the Canon T5 / 1200D.

Top 12 best selling cameras are APS-C.

The first Fuji is all the way down in spot 49.

The first and only micro 4/3 camera in the top 100 is in spot 74. Irrelevant format almost.

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Interchangeable-Lens-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/12556502011/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_3_281052/179-6403524-2375965

Amazon sales rankings are an almost instantaneous measurement and so are extremely volatile. You can get something out of it but you have to look at multiple samples over a long period of time.

 

[tcmatthews]

I admit I am a little jealous. I just upgraded to the Metabones T Mark IV. What an improvement over the mark III. So now I am making do with the Canon 24f2.8 IS.

Thank you for making me aware of this. Will verify with my HK dealer on this.

Congratulations. I am sure that's a fabulous combination.

My mirrorless set up will be different though. I want it to be really light. So, Canon or not, it will be the camera plus 1-2 pancake style prime lenses and a light weight zoom.

I might stick to Batis lenses on the a7 and leverage my Canon glass with the Metabones

What I find really scary is how well the STM lenses work with the Metabones adapter. I cannot tell the difference between the 7DII and A7II with the 50STM. STM seems to be the limiting factor.

 

[Solar Eagle]

I am not a sales figure guy..and I definitely do not have to be reinforced that the cameras, (or camera company) that I know, use and love having to be the best sellers. I don't care. I use what works best for my needs.
I do not know it these sales figures are for gross $ or for units sold.(not good with charts..I have art brain...LOL) .....but if a camera is extremely inexpensive or had a huge price drop it may have a tendency to sell more units. I know that the Canon M experienced a HUGE price drop and I think that the sales of those units soared because of that drop and that may or may not be adding to the numbers that are in those charts. I did not comb the web for substantiating info. I am no expert. Just throwing that thought into the mix. I am sure that the resident Canon sales rep here can stomp all over me for that input! ...but I said it anyway. :-X

I don't believe the M price drop happened in Japan, just in the US when Canon USA was bailing out on it. That definitely was one of the best deals there ever was. You could get an EOS M, 22mm f2, 18-55mm, and EF-M adapter for a total of $450 - all brand new.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Folks.
I suspect we can expect the Japanese market to erupt as people with any money start to buy almost anything to get their money out of the bank, so they don't have to pay the bank to hold their money following the introduction of the -1% interest rate!
Lots of money stored under mattresses me thinks! ;D

Cheers, Graham.

 

[rrcphoto]

I am not a sales figure guy..and I definitely do not have to be reinforced that the cameras, (or camera company) that I know, use and love having to be the best sellers. I don't care. I use what works best for my needs.
I do not know it these sales figures are for gross $ or for units sold.(not good with charts..I have art brain...LOL) .....but if a camera is extremely inexpensive or had a huge price drop it may have a tendency to sell more units. I know that the Canon M experienced a HUGE price drop

snip. the Japan market is very price conscious. Most mirrorless units have had huge price drops in japan to sell well. Olympus sold off all their old inventory of E-PL6's and got top dog in Japan by doing that exact same thing.

 

[infared]

I am not a sales figure guy..and I definitely do not have to be reinforced that the cameras, (or camera company) that I know, use and love having to be the best sellers. I don't care. I use what works best for my needs.
I do not know it these sales figures are for gross $ or for units sold.(not good with charts..I have art brain...LOL) .....but if a camera is extremely inexpensive or had a huge price drop it may have a tendency to sell more units. I know that the Canon M experienced a HUGE price drop

snip. the Japan market is very price conscious. Most mirrorless units have had huge price drops in japan to sell well. Olympus sold off all their old inventory of E-PL6's and got top dog in Japan by doing that exact same thing.

Ahhhh...you may have a very good point there!