Canon Very Large Sensor Media Format Mirrorless 1Dx2 style Camera Seen in Wild

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
HarryFilm said:
So while I do admit my PERSONAL dealings with Canon management
is pretty much non-existent, my friends are anything but unknowledgeable
about the directions of MANY camera body and sensor makers!
And I actually DO KNOW more than just a little about sensor
technology on smartphones. I am no mere technician!

please for the LOVE OF GOD stop pressing enter after 10 words and only after paragraphs.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,938
Canada
midluk said:
rrcphoto said:
please for the LOVE OF GOD stop pressing enter after 10 words and only after paragraphs.
You don't like poetry? 8)
Allow me to summarize......
HarryFilm said:
This is a reformatted copy of an email sent to me from
colleagues in the Netherlands and Germany in Early 2017
*** CONFIRMING *** that an in-the-wild test prototype
was seen in Munich, Germany during a Football match
(that's soccer for you Americans!) that was ALSO CONFIRMED
via an earlier-in-year and later-in-year PHYSICAL closeup examination
of a similar system to be a MEDIUM FORMAT CANON CAMERA that has
a very large CMOS sensor in a body style very similar to a
Canon 1Dx Mark II camera but of course larger in size
to accommodate the larger sensor and lenses.


START OF FIRST EMAIL SENT TO ME FROM NETHERLANDS/GERMANY:
=============================================
RE: Confirmation of Canon 1Dx style body Medium format camera for 2018

This email is to confirm an
October 2016 article from German
camera enthusiasts group "EigenVector",
that an in-the-wild, fully-working
medium format Canon camera was seen
this weekend January 6, 2017 at
Olympiapark München stadium complex
in Munich, Germany during an indoor
football match.

"EigenVector" member "RosenBlatt"
spotted a noted and known European
Canon Engineer hovering undercover
at field-side during an indoor
football match held within the
Olympiapark complex.

Noticing an extremely large lens
mated to very large camera body
that was similar in appearance to a
Canon 1Dx series camera but larger,
"RosenBlatt" attempted to strike up
a conversation with said engineer but
was hastily rebuffed and the Canon
Engineer took hasty leave of the premises.

RosenBlatt's female companion was able
to take photos via her own Canon 5D Mk3
with a long lens to prove once and for
all that Canon is now field testing a
medium format camera.

After examination, these photos proved
nearly identical in looks to a camera
present in photos and video taken in
Japan in early summer 2016.

After an exciting day contacting
our sources in Japan who obtained
the original photos and video,
we are able to confirm some changes
to specifications present in our
earlier report.

The new specification are a
56mm by 42mm CMOS sensor Bayer
Pattern which is a slightly larger
sensor on the vertical than the
56mm by 38mm sensor outlined
in our earlier report.

It is confirmed that this is
a <<MIRRORLESS>> camera!

Resolution is now 8192 by 6036 pixels
still using 16 bits per Red, Green and
Blue colour channel coupled to a newly
added imaging format of 4:4:4 colour-
sampled JPEG-2000 which is wavelet-
based. This has been confirmed by
our sources!

It has also been confirmed to us
that the JPEG-2000 format is in
addition to the normal JPEG used
within all current Canon DSLRs.

It is a user selectable option
allowing full wide gamut image
capture using the wavelet
compression algorithm.

Pixel size has also been confirmed
as being 6.82 microns with an improved
linearity of light capture giving
low-light performance an improvement
of 5% over the already impressive
Canon 1Dx Mk2.

This means lower noise in the shadows
at the same ISO as compared to the
1Dx Mk2.

One massive improvement for usability
is allowing the definition of custom
menu layouts on scrollable 25-item
screens where common camera functions
can be aggregated into a single place.

Five such scrollable 25-item
touchscreen menus can be created
and labelled into a tabbed notebook
style of interface.

These custom menus are created
off-camera as a text file but can
be imported via Wifi or via USB3.

==========================================
END OF FIRST EMAIL SENT TO ME FROM NETHERLANDS/GERMANY.




START OF SECOND EMAIL SENT TO ME FROM NETHERLANDS/GERMANY:
=============================================

Stated Specifications

Canon 1Dx-body Style with 6x4.5-type
Medium Format Camera:

* 56mm by 42mm CMOS sensor Bayer Pattern

* 8192 by 6036 pixels (50 megapixels)
at 6.82 microns per photosite

* Global Shutter Sensor with a
now-specified 14.5 EV at ISO 100
Dynamic range vs 13.5 EV for 1Dx Mk2
It was explained to us that video
shooters could expect a true dynamic
range of 14 stops at ISO 800 which
is better than even the newly
released C700 cinema camera!
This looks well for low-light
shooting at high ISO values
as the EV drop-off curve is
noted to be flatter than the
1Dx Mk2.

* Shutter speed at full frame is
now an <<ASTOUNDING>> 25 fps
which is 3 fps higher than
specified in our earlier
2016 report!

* 4:4:4 colour sampling at 16 bits per
channel RAW and RGB Ultra Wide Gamut

* ISO range is ISO 100 to 51200 with
extensions down to 50 and up to 409600

* JPEG-2000 file format wavelet based
compression 4:4:4 colour sampling
at up to 16 bits per channel for
wide gamut imaging. Normal JPEG is
still available!

* Dual pixel autofocus

* Articulated and rugged OLED
Touchscreen with horizontal swivel
out to left and full 360 degree
vertical rotate with live-view at
1920 by 1200 pixels usable for
critical focus. Entire liveview
screen area is touch-enabled for
fast autofocusing over entire
sensor area!

* Five User defined and scrollable
25-item touchscreen menus for
creating multiple custom camera
option and function layouts!

* onboard GPS and 6-axis MEMS sensor
for XYZ rotation and XYZ movement
metadata recording on all still
images and periodically within
video files

* Two DIGIC processors each with an
embedded ultra wide gamut wavelet
image compression core and a wide
gamut MPEG4 video compression core

* One USB3 Type-C connector, one HDMI
connector and One RJ-45 1gb/sec
Ethernet connector

* Two C-Fast slots but NO SD card slots!

* Combined Battery and Internal hard
drive grip accessory allowing
<<TWO>> 63.5mm (2.5 inch?) SATA SSD
drives for high capacity still
photo and video file storage.

We have confirmed that testing was
completed with two inserted
3-terabyte Samsung SSD removable
storage drives!

* 802.11ac Wifi with multiple logon
accounts to autosend and <<EXCHANGE>>
photos too!

Two Canon MF cameras can obtain
photos from each other via
peer-to-peer Wifi and download
photos from external sources to
local C-Fast cards and internal
SSD drives!

* Confirmation that video recording
is supported at DCI 4k (4096x2160),
UHDTV (3840x2160) and HDTV (1920x1080)
downsampled from the full sensor
area at 24 fps, 25 fps, 30 fps,
50 fps, 60 fps, 100 fps and 120 fps.

HDMI output is confirmed clean of
any overlays at 4k DCI, 3840 and
1080 resolutions!

* We have confirmed that video
recording has eschewed Motion-JPEG
Intraframe compression and gone to
Motion-Wavelet intraframe
compression at up to 12 bits per
channel 4:4:4 colour sampling.

It is also confirmed to us that
MPEG4 interframe compression at
10 bits per channel 4:2:2 colour
sampling is now enabled!

* Canon Clog/Clog2/Clog3 and five
User-definable Log file entries
are confirmed present.

* 3.5mm audio input jack is present

* We have now confirmed that a more
expensive 120 megapixels at 8-to-10
fps version will be released at the
same time!

* It is confirmed that a 50mm and 85mm
lens in addition to a 600 mm
telephoto were tested in the wild
with four new zoom lenses to be
introduced at the same time for
the new medium format mount sizes.

It is confirmed that the lenses
will contain on-lens LED displays
for easy viewing of statistical
information even in low-light
situations!

* It is confirmed that a mid-2018
introduction date is specified

* Price for Body-only was given as a
range from 12000 Euros to as much as
16000 Euros at introduction! This is
<<VERY INEXPENSIVE>> compared with
Hasselblad or Phase One but with
a 25 fps burst shooting speed at
50 megapixels!

* It has been confirmed that lenses
will not be cheap and from 1.5x to
3x the price of the premium EF lenses
at equivalent focal lengths and at
least twice as heavy! You will need
to start working out and beef up
your tripods!

============================================
END OF SECOND EMAIL SENT TO ME FROM NETHERLANDS/GERMANY.


As an addendum to my second email, it was outlined to me
that the primary still photo codec to be used to compress photos
is a 4:4:4 Wavelet-based JPEG-2000 codec and the colour sampling
is 16-bits per channel native BUT but user choosable downsampling
of additional 12 bits, 10 bits and 8 bits per channel.

It was also outlined to me that the primary highest-fidelity
motion video codec is a Motion Wavelet-based ALSO with
4:4:4 16-bits NATIVE and also user-selectable per channel
colour sampling intraframe codec. No mention or RAW video
recording was made in my received emails but that RAW FORMAT
still photo shooting at 16 bits per channel IS AVAILABLE!.

And thirdly, it was outlined to me that the primary INTERFRAME
codec that has the longest recording times is a variation on
an H.265 codec (NOT the MPEG-4 outlined above!) that is to
be 4:2:2 quality with an option to choose ONE OF 8-bits,
10 bits ...OR... 12-bits per colour channel of colour sampling.
The camera NATIVELY captures at 16 bits per channel and
down-samples to the 12, 10 and 8-bits per channel.

Those bodes very well for high-dynamic range imaging
and by mentioning the specification terms of 14.5 EV
at ISO 100, I can PERSONALLY conclude on a technical basis,
there SHOULD BE a noise-reduction at ISO levels at or above
6400 between 5% to 15% and more over the already
impressive 1Dx Mk 2. This means that shooting at say
ISO 1600 you could probably shoot a few minutes after
sunset scene and almost NO NOISE will be seen and
colours will still be nearly fully saturated!

And finally, it has been confirmed by my sources that
TWO VERSIONS of the camera will be sold. A 50 megapixel
version and a 120 megapixel version to replace the 5Ds/r
camera.

It is indeed fully mirrorless and WILL shoot a full burst
of 25 frames per second at 50 megapixels which is an
astonishingly high speed! I hope they have the cooling
system and battery life down pat on these cameras!

I received a range of 7 fps to 10 fps burst rate shooting speed
for the 120 megapixel version of the medium format mirrorless.

The only concern I have is paying between 12 000 to 16 000 Euros
which I think is a bit steep BUT at 25 fps at 50 megapixels it might
change the medium format game ENTIRELY especially if the body
style stays with the 1Dx Mk 2 style!

I know this may seem like an utterly unbelievable rumour
to you, but my sources are rather impressive in their contacts
SO I MUST give them the benefit of the doubt because of their
personal and peer standing in still imaging and video engineering circles!

It looks like Canon is getting very serious about high end photography
at larger sensor sizes. I think more than a few pros would switch to
Canon MF if the body style was kept the same as the 1Dx Mk2 and
the burst shooting speed actually IS the stated 25 fps!

That speed CHANGES EVERYTHING within action sports and
wildlife photography circles at 50 megapixels and a 120 megapixel
version also changes everything for landscape, portrait
and fashion photographers!

**** I should note even though the above emails
**** state that photos of the prototype camera were taken
**** by 2nd/3rd parties, I DO NOT HAVE THOSE PHOTOS !!!

What do you think about the specs?

Does anybody have any 3rd party confirmation
of these specs to share with canon rumors?


I have to agree with you on the term "Confirmed".
I personally don't HAVE the said photos of the Canon MF
in the wild although i am TRYING to to get them!

I am relying more on the academic and working credentials
of my contacts who say THEY HAVE SEEN the photos and videos
in question and THEY ARE suitably impressed! They have not specified
the reasons as to WHY they haven't yet sent the photos and videos to me.

I am more and more BEGINNING to believe the veracity
of the spec claims due to their logical nature and KNOWN
assertions by actual Canon personnel indicating that H.265
and Motion Wavelet still photo/video compression and that
Large Medium Format Sensors have been in Canon's Research
and Development pipeline for a few years now.

I've actually personally SEEN a gigantic sensor from Canon
that was OVER 480 MEGAPIXELS from a 202mm x 205mm
(8 inches x 8.1 inches) chip which is somewhere around
26,000+ by 17,000+ pixels (approximately) if I
remember correctly which is used in Satellite
Earth Imaging and Astrophotography.
(it was announced in 2010 and I saw it at a astro/satellite-conference)

You could shoot 60 fps at 0.3 lux and at 9 microns per pixel
the image was STUNNING !!!! Canon CAN do Medium Format,
so again, I am more and more inclined to think Canon is working
on an MF revenue generator and having MANY professional
sports/news/fashion/portrait/wildlife photographers upgrade
to a 50 megapixel 25 fps Medium Format camera at 12 000 euros
a pop SOUNDS LIKE a good revenue generator to me!

If the MF size L-series lenses are made REALLY GOOD then
Canon would be RAKING IN THE REALLY BIG MONEY from
all those full-frame to MF professional photographer upgrades!

All I can say is that based upon all the grapevine talk I have been
hearing within the last two years, is that a NEW high-speed flagship
stills and video camera is on the way from Canon and it will be shooting
50 and 120 megapixels at 16 bits per colour channel using a very large
Global Shutter Sensor for high dynamic range!


This was NOT meant as an April Fools joke!
I received the emails quite a while ago
in February, so I am pretty sure it wasn't
meant for that.

My contacts are impeccable in terms terms
of their standing in still photography and
video engineering AND I understand there
are both photos AND video of the events
in Europe and Japan of the actual prototype
Canon MF cameras in question. I am TRYING
to obtain those photos and videos and
will present them if I can get them.

The specs themselves from what
I understand come from engineering
drawings obtained by "Certain Sources"
to which I am not privy to.

I'm not defending these statements
merely relaying them and as many
know or believe:

"Photos and Video or it didn't happen!"

I will see if there is some ability
to get that "proof" to all of you
here at canonrumors!


While there is still some debate as to whether or not Sasquatch
(aka Bigfoot or a version of Gigantopithecus) might or might not
be real, it is rather difficult to dispute the reality of a Canon
8 inch sensor that has 480+ megapixels in it sitting in a
display case in front of me upon which the Canon rep standing
in front of said display case indicated to ME personally that
Medium Format is being looked at in the NEAR future by Canon!

An interesting conversation I had with a Canon Optics
manager that works in the Optical Microscope and
Microcircuit Mask Printing manufacturing portion
of Canon ADMITTED to me that 35mm/full frame
photography is a dying industry BUT that higher
end imaging is an area Canon has been spending
lots of Research dollars very recently.

But the interesting correlation of the above statement
is from my contacts in the Netherlands and Germany
that have said Canon MANAGERS from Japan have
told them that Canon is going to focus on three
areas of imaging:

a) Grab a huge piece of the Cell Phone/Smartphone market
away from Sony my making CANON-manufactured CMOS chips
for 4k small sensor sizes at 60 fps and 120 fps for the cheap
and mid-tier phones that have onboard image processing.
(i.e. glue a Digic to back of sensor)

b) Manufacturing bonded-together CMOS imaging and Digic/ARM CPU
image processing cores at 2/3 inch and one-inch CMOS sensor sizes
for flagship smartphones such as Apple and Samsung and that
SOME of these chips will be for 8k still photo and 24 to 120 fps 8k video!
i.e. 8000+ by 4500+ pixels which would be great!

c) Large Sensor EOS Sport Body Still Photo and Premium Cinema Camera
that can shoot AT OR GREATER THAN 24/25/30/50/60/100/120 fps at the
full sensor sizes to get the professional photographers to switch over
from 35mm/Full Frame to 65mm/70mm/4x5 Medium Format imaging.

If a large 65/70 mm sensor can image 8K+ (32, 50 and 120 megapixels)
at 24 fps and above, the pro sports, action, wildlife, news and magazine
photographers will simply have no issue with throwing anywhere from
10 000 Euros to 16 000 Euros for such high end gear.

The quality improvement of large sensors and higher frames rates
is just TOO GOOD TO PASS UP for any pro who is making a living
at this profession. All the pro sports shooters I know want SPEED
and when I asked what would they do if Canon has a 24+ fps
medium format camera at 50 megapixels, they said they would
dump their 35mm gear within 30 seconds of introduction to get
a loan for it even with the heavier lenses and bulkier camera!

That's 160 million euros spending spree for 10,000 units
right there at first year of introduction of such a system!
By 3rd and 4th year Canon would earn over 2 billion Euros
worldwide just for the pro photographers not to mention
bring that technology down to 120 million cell phones
EVERY YEAR if you put 8k+ Canon image sensors in smartphones!

So YES i believe my contacts! There is just too much money
at stake for Canon to have not done something already!

It's coming sooner or later! Canon 8K+ 2/3 inch, 1 inch
and MF-style sizes for Smartphones and Pro cameras
within one or two years at the most!

I should preface the following statement in that
I should disclose I am one of the few people on
Earth who have access to 7 nanometre electron beam
etching machines used for prototype CPU production
...AND... that our company creates 64-bit, 128-bit
and ultra-wide-word 256-bit CPU/GPU designs
from the ground up for aerospace, supercomputer
and "other" uses!

So I can ABSOLUTELY SAY the designs for a
combined RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computer)
and GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) bonded
to a large CMOS sensor of 16-bits-per-channel
and more are HERE AT THIS VERY MOMENT if
Canon wants them! We'll even throw in the in-between
liquid microchannel-based cooling system layers to
ensure adequate cooling.

The die is usually 2/3", one-inch, 35mm or even 65mm
because we bond the gpu/risc cpu processing system
right to the back substrate of the CMOS sensor along
with a multi-layer active cooling system. Our usual
temperature ranges are space-rated in an almost total vacuum
environment from way-below-zero C up to +350 Celcius
so we KNOW it can handle harsh environments!

I know it kinda not fair to bring all this high-tech
up here on this board this up ...BUT....since we
do it ourselves, then it means YOU CAN BET
that Canon is doing it too!

In terms of processing power, the math is as follows
( 8192 by 6306 pixels ) x 8 bytes per pixel (16-bits
per RGB colour channel plus 16 bits for alpha channel
or a distance/depth-map channel = 51,658,752 bytes per frame
x 60 fps = 3,099,525,120 bytes per second RAW transfer rate.

Our chips can do 16 gigabytes per second RAW
so 3.1 gigs per second is PEANUTS for our gear!
So at 8 milliseconds per frame for ADC sampling
and another 8 milliseconds for compression of a video frame
to almost any video CODEC algorithm, a single 256 megabyte
L3 cache is more than enough to handle compression
to Motion JPEG or Wavelet using a four-frame video buffer
for 60 fps video output!

You do need to change the CMOS photo-site current drain
from line-by-line to a 16x16 pixel 2D-XY block which is
WHY we bond the processor to the BACK of the sensor
which allows us to divide the CPU/GPU into precisely
clocked stream processors that ONLY handle the
incoming signals from a single 16x16 photosite
block for ADC (Analog-to-Digital Conversion at
24-bits per channel downsampled to 16 bits)
and further image processing! We 3D LAYER
the stream processors since the ADC and
compression/stream processor circuitry
is quite a bit larger than any single
16x16 block of photosites.

The massively parallel architecture is typical
of what NVIDIA and AMD do on the GPU cards
of desktop PC's and laptops with the only
difference being our on-board VRAM caches,
which are HUGE!

Since we are dealing with LIMITED NUMBER of
graphics and video compression processes that
only need to be timed down to a latency of
8 milliseconds per frame, it's a TRIVIAL
engineering task!

So I am more than just sure Canon
is doing what we do simply because
WE are doing it RIGHT NOW!

Now to get the cost to below 16 000 euros
just might be a bit of an elevated effort!


On a general basis, Canon already has the technology
(they've demoed their technology to us and we've demoed
our technology to them) and while I cannot be more specific
beyond that, it was their patent for global shutter readout
methodology that our parent company cross-licences from Canon!

Our systems CANNOT compete with Canon cost-wise!
We just don't bother and stay with high-end industrial/milspec systems!

Our markets are different BUT Canon has a few tricks
up their sleeve that will make similar technology to ours
feasible on prosumer/true professional systems costing
anywhere between 5 000 Euros up to their Cinema
EOS lines which can be in the 30 000 Euros range.

Unfortunately, I don't have any ties to Japanese
Canon Management and Engineers so I cannot
comment personally on their timelines and
future product development.

What I CAN comment on is word from friends
in the Netherlands and Germany who do have
standing with "sources" much closer to Canon
than I would ever have. It is THEIR expertise
I am relying on. I am saying TWO YEARS because
that seems to be a timetable where something
bigger is to be released as a Flagship model
for high-speed, high-resolution imaging designed
for higher-end professional sports, action, magazine
photography use!

And based upon some BASIC number crunching,
160 million Euros worth of high end large-sensor
cameras would LIKELY be sold within 4 to 6 months.
AND 2-to-4 years after that, up to a possible
1.5 to 2.0 BILLION Euros of larger-format
camera body and lens gear would be sold.

After development and marketing costs,
Canon's profit margin would be likely in
the 35%+ range besting the profit margins
of even Apple on their very profitable iPhone gear!

When the pro photographers have been saturated
with such gear, then Canon will then dig deep to wrestle
away Smartphone camera components away from Sony
where at 120 million+ phones per year, the GROSS MARGIN
will be 15% of the average wholesale price of mid-tier
smartphones FOR EVERY YEAR which will be in the area
of at least 500 million+ Euros for years to come!

That is a market Canon WILL NO LONGER IGNORE!
Powerful CMOS chips combined with GPU/CPU tech
for 8K+smartphone cameras is the wave of the
future for Canon! And based upon what I have
heard, something is coming SOONER rather
than later!

I ALSO BELIEVE that the REAL target market
is going to be mobile phones/smartphones
and any 8k+ Medium Format Still/Video
camera is merely a test bed to shrinking
new technologies down to 1/2 inch or
maybe 2/3 inch Canon CMOS sensors for
mid-tier and higher end smartphones.

I think they are BETTING BIG on entering
smartphone market by first going after
pro still camera/video users with a very
nice large-sensor medium format product
which will bring MANY ooohs and aaaahs
from the photography community AND will
ensure their upcoming combined octa-core
DIGIC Image Processor + CMOS 8K+ Sensor
technology is viable for a broader
consumer market.

So while I do admit my PERSONAL dealings with Canon management
is pretty much non-existent, my friends are anything but unknowledgeable
about the directions of MANY camera body and sensor makers!
And I actually DO KNOW more than just a little about sensor
technology on smartphones. I am no mere technician!

...BUT...I need not disclose too much on here
OTHER THAN TO SAY that 8K 2/3 inch CMOS sensors
with aspherical and compound curve microlenses will
DEFINITELY allow Canon to enter the smartphone market
without burdening the smartphone with huge lenses!

That 41 megapixel Windows Phone from Nokia (i.e. Lumia 1020)
from 2013 had a very large and thick lens structure that is no
longer required due to the ability of high-refractive index glass
and new types of non-hemispherical microlenses that are put
on top of each sensor photosite to gather more light.
This means ultra-thin lens structures and better photos
from smartphones! Optical Zoom of course will be restricted
in scope but at such resolutions as 8k+ that might
not be so much an issue anymore.

The key Canon feature is integration of CPU/GPU image processing,
bonded to a CMOS sensor with built-in large VRAM cache and
micro-channel-based cooling for advanced thermal management.
And at 8k 60 fps being the target frame rate, Sony will and SHOULD
be quaking in their boots if Canon can get the cost down to within
10% to 20% of Sony's prices. Samsung has been itching to get out
form under Sony's dominance of smartphone camera suppliers
and Canon is well-poised to benefit under the new management
philosophy of quicker introductions of new technologies.

This is good for all still photographers and cinematographers!

I simply relay information I have received and make comments upon
it since in my world the PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING in the form of
a real-world large-sensor MF camera with a Canon logo on it!

No need to argue the merits of my posts since it is all conjecture
until I get access to videos and/or photos of said camera(s)!

I can say that we are currently in a game of Wait and See......

While Canon a Medium Format or C700-style
65mm sensor camera IS a niche product...
BUT....when you sell a thousand C700's and
accessories for well over $40,000, I don't
think Canon cares too much since that
sort of market penetration is considered
a fantastic success.

And lately, I've seen the C700 being ORDERED
by a LOT of TV News and Crews who have
wanted the C700 style body for a very long time,
so I am guessing based upon the Euro, USA
and Asia markets, Canon has already sold at
least 1000 of them so that's 40 Million Dollars US
in just 6 months!

That is a LOT of very expensive cinema-style
cameras already in such a short period of time!
Can't argue with that sort of cash ESPECIALLY
since the Research and Development costs
were LIKELY less than $150 million US on
the C700. They will recoup their costs in
less than two years at this rate!
and with a 4-to-5 year product cycle
they will be earning a gross profit of around
$350 million US just on the wildly expensive C700!

Add in a sports/action photographer-style MF body
and large lens, then Canon has a COMPLETE WINNER!
I know from my manufacturing experience that
Canon can definitely get a 50 megapixel MF sensor
and body down to near 10 000 Euros.

The KEY FEATURE TO GREAT SALES is burst shooting speed!
if the spec of 25 fps at 50 megapixels and 7-to-10 fps for
120 megapixels is REAL, it would be a MASSIVE WIN
FOR CANON! I would buy three of them for myself
just one minute after they were put on sale!

So if this IS REAL, then it ABSOLUTELY BETTER HAVE
WHAT I WANT...which is that magical 25 fps
burst rate at 50 megapixels!

----

And regarding your lens size and expense issue,
I am very well aware how large and expensive
such lenses are! I've got one downstairs where
it literally cost us nearly $100,000 for a 4K
Fujinon Servo Zoom lens and it is BIG and HEAVY!

On a physical basis, I can ask you to try and lug
around an old 35 pound Sony Betacam SP camera and
Batteries with a 20 pound sports servo lens attached
to it onto a rolling ship or submarine or over rough terrain
AND have a 30 pound all-metal tripod strapped to your back!

Many times I was carrying WELL OVER a
100 pounds of gear with NO HELP ---
Just me and the "Crew"!

It really isn't that bad, just train yourself!
Humans can EASILY carry that sort
of gear (100 lbs - 45 kg) for 10
or more kilometres if you're well
trained enough. People are LAZY these
days...We did it ALMOST EVERY DAY for YEARS!

My current cameras, lenses, batteries
and tripods are STILL over 60 lbs of gear
and I STILL have to take it by myself
sometimes up to 5 to 10 km over rough
terrain (only a few times a year now!)
but now I'm 20 years older so it's a lot harder!

So....if I can still lug 60 lbs of gear around at my age
then I think Canon is MORE THAN CAPABLE of offering
a reasonably-priced (i.e. 10 000 Euros) 1Dx sports-body-style
Medium Format Global Shutter camera with lightweight but
Medium Format-sized lenses!

and Midluk, it is not just poetry, it is an epic poem.....

I am amazed that one person can have so much detailed information and inside knowledge on such a major project from one of the most secretive companies out there.... Not even Ken Rockwell has such insight!
 

Pixel

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Sep 6, 2011
223
117
Canon doesn't build "all" of the their sensors. They build their high-end sensors but they purchase many of the sensors used in the consumer stuff from other manufacturers.

Mikehit said:
You really should learn how to use the quote function.....

So given that Canon build all their own sensors, and given that you are doing it already makes you wonder why Canon did not show a smidgeon of this technology in previous models.

I know zip about sensor or processor production, but it seems what you are saying it is merely a case of them developing a new processor like yours, completely changing the architecture of their CMOS sensors. Oh...and reducing the cost about 5 to 10-fold.
All within 2 years.
 

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,342
544
Pixel said:
Canon doesn't build "all" of the their sensors. They build their high-end sensors but they purchase many of the sensors used in the consumer stuff from other manufacturers.

As far as I am aware the only non-Canon sensors are in point-and-shoots while all DSLR sensors are their own.
 

Halfrack

EOS RP
Sep 14, 2011
668
1
If Canon wants to play in the 33x44 MF space, it's fine, someone has to keep Sony on their toes. Making a sensor, but not a whole camera would make sense - products like the GFX and the X1D will help establish the market. Making a sensor that size doesn't mean Canon will come out with their own line up of cameras.
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
712
166
Please note that my posts are from
OTHER SOURCES --- NOT ME !!!!

I am just REFORMATTING text
that comes from multiple news sources
which may or may not include people
who are IN or at least CLOSE-TO
the Canon sphere of influence!

Since I live in North America and my sources
are in and from the Netherlands and Germany,
I am NOT privy to their personal networks
and/or workplace relationships.

I am aggregating many posts into what
many of you here call long-winded and
"poetic" to give a GENERAL overview of
what is thought to be "in-the-Wild" in
terms of prototype Cameras and insights
into the business of photography gear
including camera bodies, lenses and
support hardware and software.

it also means that SOME of the information
outlined here MAY BE conjecture or misguided
viewpoints. It is NOT my job to police that!
I am merely presenting POSSIBLE EVIDENCE
of new products coming from Canon in
the near and far future.

So don't shoot the messenger!
Stop bugging me about my formatting!
And READ the actual specifications
of what MIGHT BE coming down the
pipeline.

I do know from our local Canon Dealer
who has sold us four 1Dc's, two 5D's,
some C100's, Powershots, Canon lenses
and our other OEM dealer who has sold us
Fujinon lenses up the yin-yang and
lots of 4K monitors and a whole network
of very powerful 4k/8k editing capable
computing/server systems, they are BOTH
indicating that new and exciting products
in the high end (i.e. EOS C700 Cinema
and related gear) are coming down the
pipeline and that Canon is "Looking Into MF"
which to me sounds like it means they are
doing it pretty soon!

This talk coincides with other talk i've heard
about an actual Medium Format body being
seen In-the-Wild looking near-sales-ready!
It also helps that I MIGHT (not sure though!)
be able to obtain real-world still photos and
video of an actual Medium Format Canon camera!

I CANNOT OFFER any concrete proof until
I personally see "The Goods" myself!

So again, we will have to wait and see!

Still I like the idea of Wavelet-based (i.e. JPEG-2000)
still photos at 4:4:4 16 bits per colour channel pixel depths
for its really high dynamic range! I ALSO REALLY LIKE the
idea of a 4:4:4 16-bits per RGB/YcbCr channel Motion Wavelet
video CODEC and I like DEFINITELY LIKE 4:2:2 H.265 video
at user-selectable 8, 10 and 12 bits per channel colour depths.

AND FINALLY I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE IDEA
of 25 frames per second burst shooting speed
at 50 megapixels and 7-to-10 frames per second
at 120 megapixels in a body style is said to be
the same type as but only a little larger than the
current Canon 1Dx Mk 2. I can live with heavier and
more expensive lenses especially since someone has
outlined to me they may be made of specialty
very light-weight flourite glass-ceramic composite
lens elements housed in an almost all-magnesium
alloy lens barrel. That I suspect would make the lenses
for a large format 65mm Medium Format sensor almost
the same weight as the current Canon L-series lenses!

Go for it Canon! I want this now!
The money for THREE such cameras
and lenses is just waiting for you to take it from me!

GIVE US THAT PRODUCT EXACTLY
AS OUTLINED ABOVE and my money
is all yours Canon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
Halfrack said:
If Canon wants to play in the 33x44 MF space, it's fine, someone has to keep Sony on their toes. Making a sensor, but not a whole camera would make sense - products like the GFX and the X1D will help establish the market. Making a sensor that size doesn't mean Canon will come out with their own line up of cameras.

what canon needs to do is to make a 300MP "full frame" sensored camera.

the medium format crop format just isn't big enough from full frame 35mm
 

IglooEater

EOS R
Nov 15, 2014
904
0
applecider said:
Images, images, images, you've told us they exist.

Time to put the red meat on the table.

Plus I want to see the weightlifter sport shooter handling it.

No pictures it doesn't exist.

Disagree. It's time to put anything on the table... all we've got so far is something any of us could have randomly typed up.
 

Fatalv

EOS 90D
Mar 1, 2012
120
0
It's amazing this thread is even 4 pages long. I've seen sci-fi movies that are more in touch with reality. I should have made popcorn first before wading through the last 4 pages :p

Sadly the phrase "pics or it didn't happen" comes to mind ;)
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
25,599
3,940
HarryFilm said:
I do know from our local Canon Dealer
...that Canon is "Looking Into MF"
which to me sounds like it means they are
doing it pretty soon!

Yes, local brick and mortar shops are a highly respected and accurate source of inside information about Canon's development plans. ::)

Seriously, you should quit while you're behind. You succeed only in making yourself appear silly.

HarryFilm said:
AND FINALLY I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE IDEA

Go for it Canon! I want this now!
The money for THREE such cameras
and lenses is just waiting for you to take it from me!

GIVE US THAT PRODUCT EXACTLY
AS OUTLINED ABOVE and my money
is all yours Canon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And there it is. You're posting all this bogus information because it's your personal wet dream of product(s) you want. ::) ::) ::)
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
712
166
neuroanatomist said:
HarryFilm said:
I do know from our local Canon Dealer
...that Canon is "Looking Into MF"
which to me sounds like it means they are
doing it pretty soon!

Yes, local brick and mortar shops are a highly respected and accurate source of inside information about Canon's development plans. ::)

Seriously, you should quit while you're behind. You succeed only in making yourself appear silly.

HarryFilm said:
AND FINALLY I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE IDEA

Go for it Canon! I want this now!
The money for THREE such cameras
and lenses is just waiting for you to take it from me!

GIVE US THAT PRODUCT EXACTLY
AS OUTLINED ABOVE and my money
is all yours Canon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And there it is. You're posting all this bogus information because it's your personal wet dream of product(s) you want. ::) ::) ::)

---

He's no "Local Yokel Dealer" --- his connections run pretty deep back in Japan!
Kinda helps that one of his relatives is a "High Honcho" AT Canon!
He's NOT saying much but he IS smiling coyly because he knows something
BIG is coming down the pipeline that we don't know anything about!
And he travels to Japan A LOT! to it's head offices and it's RnD centres
so HE of all people probably knows THE MOST even more so than probably
my Germany/Netherlands contacts...the problem is He Ain't Talking Much
but Just Smiles Coyly and Nods Head Very Slowly!

AND for you "Pics or Didn't Happen" people, I'll MAKE SURE
I get and have a response by Tuesday April 11, 2017 from
Germany/Netherlands as to when/if I will get access
to those photos/videos of said prototype.
I will PUSH THIS HARD so that we aren't
left out of the loop anymore!

This is a hit and miss option but I think it's
time to up the ante in getting some more info!
 

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,342
544
HarryFilm said:
Please note that my posts are from
OTHER SOURCES --- NOT ME !!!!

I am just REFORMATTING text
that comes from multiple news sources
which may or may not include people
who are IN or at least CLOSE-TO
the Canon sphere of influence!
...

I am aggregating many posts

I suspect that is the issue here - different ideas floating around and someone (seemingly you) stitching together different unrelated bits to create a picture you want to see. As the old saying goes - a camel is a horse designed by committee.

Have you presented this 'complete picture' to all your acquaintances to see if they agree with the information as a whole?
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
25,599
3,940
Mikehit said:
Have you presented this 'complete picture' to all your acquaintances to see if they agree with the information as a whole?

He probably showed his good friend the Canon Dealer with deep connections to Canon HQ, who Smiled Coyly and Nodded Very Slowly.

It occurs to me that a slight smile and slow nod is how I humor my three-year-old when he makes outlandish claims, but that may just be a coincidence.
 

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,882
1,029
UK
www.flickr.com
HarryFilm said:
Please note that my posts are from
OTHER SOURCES --- NOT ME !!!!

I am just REFORMATTING text
that comes from multiple news sources
which may or may not include people
who are IN or at least CLOSE-TO
the Canon sphere of influence!

There is absolutely no reason your text should be formatted differently, everyone else on here is managing to type without pressing return every few words.

As for the content, well the less said about that the better ::)
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
712
166
Mikehit said:
HarryFilm said:
Please note that my posts are from
OTHER SOURCES --- NOT ME !!!!

I am just REFORMATTING text
that comes from multiple news sources
which may or may not include people
who are IN or at least CLOSE-TO
the Canon sphere of influence!
...

I am aggregating many posts

I suspect that is the issue here - different ideas floating around and someone (seemingly you) stitching together different unrelated bits to create a picture you want to see. As the old saying goes - a camel is a horse designed by committee.

Have you presented this 'complete picture' to all your acquaintances to see if they agree with the information as a whole?


Actually YES! I send a reply email back with links to my posts here
and while they are debating amongst themselves as to whether they
feel they should RELEASE the photos and videos they have, I have
quite implored them that "Just Do It!" It's wasting everyone's time
if they don't release the goods! Again, we shall see what they say and do!

The Proof Will Be In The Pudding!
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
712
166
neuroanatomist said:
Mikehit said:
Have you presented this 'complete picture' to all your acquaintances to see if they agree with the information as a whole?

He probably showed his good friend the Canon Dealer with deep connections to Canon HQ, who Smiled Coyly and Nodded Very Slowly.

It occurs to me that a slight smile and slow nod is how I humor my three-year-old when he makes outlandish claims, but that may just be a coincidence.

---

Naaah! I would change that to the type of nod and smile
that one does when they KNOW SOMETHING that is secret
and aren't allowed to talk about it!

Like i've said all along, the PROOF will be in the pudding
with pics, video and whatever else....we shall see....
 

Fleetie

Watching for pigs on the wing
Nov 22, 2010
375
5
50
Manchester, UK
www.facebook.com
HarryFilm said:
Mikehit said:
HarryFilm said:
Please note that my posts are from
OTHER SOURCES --- NOT ME !!!!

I am just REFORMATTING text
that comes from multiple news sources
which may or may not include people
who are IN or at least CLOSE-TO
the Canon sphere of influence!
...

I am aggregating many posts

I suspect that is the issue here - different ideas floating around and someone (seemingly you) stitching together different unrelated bits to create a picture you want to see. As the old saying goes - a camel is a horse designed by committee.

Have you presented this 'complete picture' to all your acquaintances to see if they agree with the information as a whole?


Actually YES! I send a reply email back with links to my posts here
and while they are debating amongst themselves as to whether they
feel they should RELEASE the photos and videos they have, I have
quite implored them that "Just Do It!" It's wasting everyone's time
if they don't release the goods! Again, we shall see what they say and do!

The Proof Will Be In The Pudding!
It annoys me when people say variations of "The proof is in the pudding".
What does that even mean? What, if you rip the pudding apart, and delve around, you're going to find some non-specific thing lurking in there that is "the proof"?

The correct proverb is "The proof of the pudding is in the eating.".

There is no "The proof is in the pudding.".

Please try to get it right. It really grates.

If you don't know the phrase correctly, then don't expose yourself by getting it wrong and looking silly.

Yes, bring on the "Dislike"s.

Given the ludicrous content of the original post of this risible thread, I think this is fair game.

The guy's on a mushroom trip.
 

IglooEater

EOS R
Nov 15, 2014
904
0
Fleetie said:
It annoys me when people say variations of "The proof is in the pudding".
What does that even mean? What, if you rip the pudding apart, and delve around, you're going to find some non-specific thing lurking in there that is "the proof"?

The correct proverb is "The proof of the pudding is in the eating.".

There is no "The proof is in the pudding.".

Please try to get it right. It really grates.

If you don't know the phrase correctly, then don't expose yourself by getting it wrong and looking silly.

Yes, bring on the "Dislike"s.

Given the ludicrous content of the original post of this risible thread, I think this is fair game.

The guy's on a mushroom trip.

Thank you, that twisted expression is very annoying

That would explain a few things... ;)