Canon Will Announce Their First Full Frame Mirrorless in 2018 [CR3]

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
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1,946
Canada
ahsanford said:
3kramd5 said:
Everything else could be done with an SLR in lockup mode

Debatable. Just because LiveView and mirrorless cameras work on the same principle doesn't mean that they are the same shooting experience.

Holding a mirrorless camera to your eye an carefully framing a shot is familiar to me as an SLR user today. However, switching to LiveView, holding your camera awkwardly 6-12" in front your eye to take a picture is tantamount to (pricey) iPad photography to me. It's a fundamentally different experience.

- A

Plus, you are sucking back the battery power to hold the mirror open.....
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
ahsanford said:
3kramd5 said:
Everything else could be done with an SLR in lockup mode

Debatable. Just because LiveView and mirrorless cameras work on the same principle doesn't mean that they are the same shooting experience.

- A

Hence my suggestion elsewhere to put an EVF into an SLR :)
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
Don Haines said:
ahsanford said:
3kramd5 said:
Everything else could be done with an SLR in lockup mode

Debatable. Just because LiveView and mirrorless cameras work on the same principle doesn't mean that they are the same shooting experience.

Holding a mirrorless camera to your eye an carefully framing a shot is familiar to me as an SLR user today. However, switching to LiveView, holding your camera awkwardly 6-12" in front your eye to take a picture is tantamount to (pricey) iPad photography to me. It's a fundamentally different experience.

- A

Plus, you are sucking back the battery power to hold the mirror open.....

True, although once one elects to use live view, the amount drawn is dwarfed by the load of the sensor being read, the image processor, the associated electronics, and screen.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,946
Canada
Maiaibing said:
Not really into mirrorless.

What do people think would be the three top advantages compared to the current EOS-models? Is it for improved video? If its an EF-mount size/weight will only be marginally better.

The big advantage of mirrorless is that there is no mirror to move out of the way..... This allows you a much faster burst rate....

Also, if you are into time lapse photography you can burn through your shutter life in a hurry! Let’s say you are going for a nighttime time lapse.... you have the camera at a 15 second interval and “let er rip” for 12 hours..... you just burned through 3000 of your 150,000 cycles of time lapse..... do this a few times and that’s a very significant part of your camera life.....
 

Maiaibing

EOS R
Mar 7, 2014
1,054
2
Kabul
www.flickr.com
Don Haines said:
Maiaibing said:
Not really into mirrorless.

What do people think would be the three top advantages compared to the current EOS-models? Is it for improved video? If its an EF-mount size/weight will only be marginally better.

The big advantage of mirrorless is that there is no mirror to move out of the way..... This allows you a much faster burst rate....

Also, if you are into time lapse photography you can burn through your shutter life in a hurry! Let’s say you are going for a nighttime time lapse.... you have the camera at a 15 second interval and “let er rip” for 12 hours..... you just burned through 3000 of your 150,000 cycles of time lapse..... do this a few times and that’s a very significant part of your camera life.....
Forgot about time lapse. I use a go-pro for that. But its of course not like shooting with a DSLR.
 

Maiaibing

EOS R
Mar 7, 2014
1,054
2
Kabul
www.flickr.com
Don Haines said:
Maiaibing said:
Not really into mirrorless.

What do people think would be the three top advantages compared to the current EOS-models? Is it for improved video? If its an EF-mount size/weight will only be marginally better.

The big advantage of mirrorless is that there is no mirror to move out of the way..... This allows you a much faster burst rate....

Also, if you are into time lapse photography you can burn through your shutter life in a hurry! Let’s say you are going for a nighttime time lapse.... you have the camera at a 15 second interval and “let er rip” for 12 hours..... you just burned through 3000 of your 150,000 cycles of time lapse..... do this a few times and that’s a very significant part of your camera life.....
Can always hope Canon will go with some crazy burst rate - but not holding my breath.
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
6,412
4,037
68
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Maiaibing said:
Not really into mirrorless.

What do people think would be the three top advantages compared to the current EOS-models? Is it for improved video? If its an EF-mount size/weight will only be marginally better.

Reading the answers, I'm pretty convinced that I won't be switching to mirrorless anytime soon.

I do see one advantage for me though: silent shutter. I do a lot of event photography and I hate the booming sound of the 1DxII's "silent" shutter. The 5DIV is much better and for this and many other reasons, it has become my preferred body for almost anything except sports.

But honestly, I don't want to invest in a third full frame body and until mirrorless can overcome all the advantages of DSLRs (and I'm not convinced that will happen anytime in the next 5 years or so) I'll stick to my big old DSLRs and used the fantastically tiny SL2 when I want something small to carry around.
 

Cryve

EOS 90D
Jul 4, 2018
115
74
Germany
If they release the mirrorless full frame at photokina, does this mean we wont see another camera there like the 90d or 7d III?

How has this been at past photokinas?
 

Durf

Picture Taker - Image Maker
Don Haines said:
Maiaibing said:
Not really into mirrorless.

What do people think would be the three top advantages compared to the current EOS-models? Is it for improved video? If its an EF-mount size/weight will only be marginally better.

The big advantage of mirrorless is that there is no mirror to move out of the way..... This allows you a much faster burst rate....

Also, if you are into time lapse photography you can burn through your shutter life in a hurry! Let’s say you are going for a nighttime time lapse.... you have the camera at a 15 second interval and “let er rip” for 12 hours..... you just burned through 3000 of your 150,000 cycles of time lapse..... do this a few times and that’s a very significant part of your camera life.....

I'm wondering if a mirrorless camera constantly using electrical parts a lot more than than a DSLR such as a EVF and constantly having currents and light probing its sensor if these parts will actually out live the average life cycle of a mechanical mirror/shutter DSLR.

I may be off about this and I'm surely no expert but it seems to me that a mirrorless sensor not having a mirror to protect it and always being exposed so to speak and an EVF being on all the time the camera is being used that it will not live as long as a OVF and covered sensor. Especially if your always changing lenses in dirty dusty conditions and running the veiwfinder and doing video all the time.
Time will tell.....
 

vangelismm

EOS 90D
Jul 28, 2015
141
88
I do not care if it is EF-x or EF, as long is not EF-m.
Larger diameter mount would allow for smaller lens compared to sony.
 

nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
310
196
Calgary
grainier said:
BeenThere said:
Perhaps an accelerated schedule from Canon to prevent Nikon from skimming all the cream off the mirrorless market.

I don't think so - Canon clearly intends to tap into existing cache of EF lenses, and buyers who have those will have little interest in Nikon. In any case, my interest is purely platonic at this point, $3000 body is not in my plans, and neither is its $2000 challenged brother.

Can you enlighten me. Where did you get the information that "Canon clearly intends to tap into existing cache of EF lenses"?
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
unfocused said:
Reading the answers, I'm pretty convinced that I won't be switching to mirrorless anytime soon.

I don't see it as switching at all -- my SLR is not going anywhere. I see mirrorless as another FF option to do the things my SLR cannot: take up less space in my bag, liveview 10x (or peaking) with MF glass through the VF, adapt old glass, etc.

It also may be the first FF body with on-chip ADC + a tilty-flippy, a combination Canon rather surprisingly does not offer in 2018.

- A
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
Cryve said:
If they release the mirrorless full frame at photokina, does this mean we wont see another camera there like the 90d or 7d III?

How has this been at past photokinas?

Good question. SLRs will surely march on and both the 90D and 7D3 are expected at some point next year (based on how often those lines have historically been updated).

But Canon generally doesn't cluster body releases, especially not FF bodies. They like each (major) release to have all the attention, marketing spotlight, pre-ordering period, etc. before other higher-end bodies are announced. That implies that they won't drop FF mirrorless on/around the same time as a 90D, 7D3, 5DS2, etc.

See here for a very very very rough swag at how this might all juggle.

Keep in mind that this is wildly inexact swag at juggling best guess of new stuff (a rough guess informed by CR rumor timings) vs. rough timing of next versions of existing lines (which is not a terrible method, so much as it counts on Canon not to change its habits). It's windage and best-guessery, nothing more.

- A
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
718
171
Stuart said:
zim said:
It's coming home, it's coming home FF coming home! ;) ;D

LOL - CR3 and in a few months - this is actually getting exciting, I can't wait to hear how the mount is going to move on from EF lenses so i can plan to have a quiet shutter with good low light glass.
I know Sony is making all the headlines at the moment but i just want Canon to come up with something special that really does the business.

The only other bit of news i want now is Canon medium format...?

---

BOTH Canon AND Sony are coming out with Medium Format systems. Let's just say that a certain manufacturer is coming out with a 60 fps DCI 4k 4:2:2 up to 16-bits per channel interframe-encoded video and up to 16-bits RAW 4:4:4 INTRAFRAME sampled form the full sensor and 8192 by 6144 pixel 16 bits per channel RAW and JPEG-2000 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 stills with a nearly 65 mm diagonal size sensor AND its coming out for sale MUCH SOONER THAN YOU THINK !!! Very low-light sensitive with much reduced noise over Canon 1Dx Mk2 or even the Sony A7s2!

OH.....and what a stills and video codec it has !!! ... i.e. Take a guess who designed and coded it? AND what a collection of initial super-high quality PRIME and ZOOM lenses it will have right out of the gate! A much better selection than what happened with the Sony A9, Panasonic G4/5-series and Fuji 50 megapixel MF intros!

AGAIN -- YOU HEARD IT HEAR FIRST!
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
Durf said:
I'm wondering if a mirrorless camera constantly using electrical parts a lot more than than a DSLR such as a EVF and constantly having currents and light probing its sensor if these parts will actually out live the average life cycle of a mechanical mirror/shutter DSLR.

[truncated]

Time will tell.....

Manufacturers might settle this one to move more units. Sony claims the A7R III shutter is rated for 500k actuations. Canon and Nikon may follow suit with a hard number.

In fairness, they may carefully craft that statement to only identify shutter lifespan. No idea if the added burden on on-board processing has been tested to the same degree as something mechanical like the shutter.

- A
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
ahsanford said:
Durf said:
I'm wondering if a mirrorless camera constantly using electrical parts a lot more than than a DSLR such as a EVF and constantly having currents and light probing its sensor if these parts will actually out live the average life cycle of a mechanical mirror/shutter DSLR.

[truncated]

Time will tell.....

Manufacturers might settle this one to move more units. Sony claims the A7R III shutter is rated for 500k actuations. Canon and Nikon may follow suit with a hard number.

In fairness, they may carefully craft that statement to only identify shutter lifespan. No idea if the added burden on on-board processing has been tested to the same degree as something mechanical like the shutter.

- A

What does “rated to” mean? Covered by warranty? Some RDT showing an MTBF of 500k?
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
nchoh said:
Can you enlighten me. Where did you get the information that "Canon clearly intends to tap into existing cache of EF lenses"?

There's no data on this, but there is an overwhelming common sense argument that EF will work seamlessly on FF mirrorless on day one (either via a true EF mount or an EF adaptor) so that Canon can try to sell every SLR user to buy an FF mirrorless body.

In short, the easiest sale Canon could possibly make is to their own customers, and they would do it with seamless EF lens compatibility.

Inverting this, for argument's sake: to not have EF lens compatibility would be tantamount to pulling the Canon name off of the product and offering itself to the world as a brand new system starting from scratch. Canon simply will not do this.

- A
 

Mr Majestyk

EOS RP
Feb 20, 2016
419
276
Australia
traveller said:
Chaitanya said:
Hoping for EF mount, Dual sd slots with atleast one Uhs-2.

Interesting their options: if not EF Mount, then what? It seems that EF-M wasn’t really designed to be optimised for full frame sensor coverage (Sigma even mentioned that Sony FE-mount was tight) and a third mount would obfuscate matters further. Unless Canon has found some way to produce a variable-flange distance version of the EF mount.

Yeah EF-M is only 0.5mm larger in diameter than FE. EF is 54mm and biggest by far, poor old Nikon has rubbish 44.5mm diameter so they are in urgent need of an update. I think Canon should go for a new mount with short flange distance, or at maybe offer two models with EF and EF-X (for want of a better name) while they develop native glass. Make and adapter that gets native or near native EF speed on the new mount.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,946
Canada
Maiaibing said:
Don Haines said:
Maiaibing said:
Not really into mirrorless.

What do people think would be the three top advantages compared to the current EOS-models? Is it for improved video? If its an EF-mount size/weight will only be marginally better.

The big advantage of mirrorless is that there is no mirror to move out of the way..... This allows you a much faster burst rate....

Also, if you are into time lapse photography you can burn through your shutter life in a hurry! Let’s say you are going for a nighttime time lapse.... you have the camera at a 15 second interval and “let er rip” for 12 hours..... you just burned through 3000 of your 150,000 cycles of time lapse..... do this a few times and that’s a very significant part of your camera life.....
Can alays hope Canon will go with some crazy burst rate - but not holding my breath.


I have a P/S with a 480FPS burst rate at a reduced resolution..... but no way are we going to see that at full resolution.... but we might see 20 at full resolution and 60 or 120 at reduced resolution.... but even then, I doubt it..... perhaps later on the 1DX of mirrorless, but not on the first one out of the gate.
 

infared

Kodak Brownie!
Jul 19, 2011
1,416
16
BeenThere said:
Perhaps an accelerated schedule from Canon to prevent Nikon from skimming all the cream off the mirrorless market.
LOL! It's been skimmed off years ago!