Canon Will Announce Their First Full Frame Mirrorless in 2018 [CR3]

[dak723]

Not really into mirrorless.

What do people think would be the three top advantages compared to the current EOS-models? Is it for improved video? If its an EF-mount size/weight will only be marginally better.

The reason that I own mirrorless, is that I have WYSIWYG for the exposure in the EVF.

 

[infared]

Not really into mirrorless.

What do people think would be the three top advantages compared to the current EOS-models? Is it for improved video? If its an EF-mount size/weight will only be marginally better.

I use Olympus mirrorless cameras along with a 5DIV.
Things that "I" love about my mirrorless cameras:
1.Review fine detail of photos just shot thru the VF.
2. Incredible image stabilization in camera body and some stabilized lenses couple with body and make the IS even greater. 6-7 stops
3. Smaller sensor in my Olympus bodies...which gives an incredibly smaller kit. (I do not think that the Canon FF Mirrorless will buy us much in that department...especially if the new body supports EF Lenses.
4. Silent operation if so desired.
5. Incredible burst rates.
6. Lighter Weight
7. See actual exposure in VF

 

[unfocused]

Re: Canon Will Announce Their First Full Frame Mirrorless in 2018 [CR3

...Take a guess who designed and coded it? AND what a collection of initial super-high quality PRIME and ZOOM lenses it will have right out of the gate! A much better selection than what happened with the Sony A9, Panasonic G4/5-series and Fuji 50 megapixel MF intros!

AGAIN -- YOU HEARD IT HEAR FIRST!

Harry give it up. No one believes your lies and you aren’t even entertaining any more. You are now just a boring nuisance that has nothing to contribute.

 

[-1]

Hoping for EF mount, Dual sd slots with atleast one Uhs-2.

Interesting their options: if not EF Mount, then what? It seems that EF-M wasn’t really designed to be optimised for full frame sensor coverage (Sigma even mentioned that Sony FE-mount was tight) and a third mount would obfuscate matters further. Unless Canon has found some way to produce a variable-flange distance version of the EF mount.

The FE and EF-M measures are for all practical purposes identical. If the Sony FE mount can be used for FF then the Canon EF-M can too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_mount#List_of_lens_mounts

 

[Quackator]

I think, it’s quite the opposite. The fact that Canon didn’t bother to produce a newly designed 70-200/2.8 aside from some cosmetical changes, is a sign that they do not aim at current owners of the 70-200/2.8II IS wanting to upgrade. Because -perhaps- there will be a new EF-# 70-200/2.8 coming soon?

The new lenses employ several new features. Canon communicated
only the coating and improved sealing on the f2.8 lens.
What they didn't tell openly is that these lenses are now assembled
on their new robotics assembly line. This cuts down production cost
per piece and vastly reduces tolerances and variations per piece.
All the lenses designed over the last two years now carry their
correction data onboard, eliminating the need to build firmware
updates for cameras only to support those lenses.
The biggest easter egg though is very likely that those lenses also
sport the new communication protocol, speeding up data transfer
anywhere from estimated factor 10~100.
This has enormous effect on AF speed, smoothness (video!) and
precision, and it also aids lens stabilization combined with digital
stabilization in camera.

I am convinced that the new cameras will have EF+ mount,
the plus referring to correction data and faster protocol.
support those lenses.

 

[epsiloneri]

What do people think would be the three top advantages compared to the current EOS-models?

I would add what I consider the most important advantage: no more micro-adjustments for autofocus! Arbitrary choice of focus point. All AF lenses "guaranteed" to focus accurately. No more 3rd party AF problems. (Ok, a bit of an exaggeration, but should at least help a lot)

This of course assumes a good AF implementation, which may make Canon's DPAF the one critical feature for the Canon FF mirrorless to be a hit.

 

[hendrik-sg]

Mirrorless is so cool. To have a smaller camera with a3 bigger lenses (sorry i never see small lenses on FF Cameras) it a huge advantage. All the people who can not take great photos will hope that all they need is a cooler camera to become great artists.

And yes, it will cost 1000 extra for it's extra coolness
And yes, it will be cheaper to manufactor
And yes, our gas will be happy that we can buy new, bigger lenses. and additionally one small pancake, which we never use.

3x canon earning, 3 times we loosing, wow.

P.S. a FF camera with a moderately small F6.3 lens makes no sense. A APS camera with a F4 or a MFT with F2.8 lens will do the same at the same size, just with less coolness.

i am impressed what marketing can do, i should have known. Even smoking is cool, in fact the most expensive way to die earlier, and to enjoy nice coughing every morning, haha

 

[photonius]

ooh.. Finally I will be able to use my old Canon FD lenses on a digital Canon FF :

 

[infared]

Mirrorless is so cool. To have a smaller camera with a3 bigger lenses (sorry i never see small lenses on FF Cameras) it a huge advantage. All the people who can not take great photos will hope that all they need is a cooler camera to become great artists.

And yes, it will cost 1000 extra for it's extra coolness
And yes, it will be cheaper to manufactor
And yes, our gas will be happy that we can buy new, bigger lenses. and additionally one small pancake, which we never use.

3x canon earning, 3 times we loosing, wow.

P.S. a FF camera with a moderately small F6.3 lens makes no sense. A APS camera with a F4 or a MFT with F2.8 lens will do the same at the same size, just with less coolness.

i am impressed what marketing can do, i should have known. Even smoking is cool, in fact the most expensive way to die earlier, and to enjoy nice coughing every morning, haha

You bring up good points....But there are some distinct advantages to a mirrorless body, no matter the size, depending on one's shooting style and needs. If you do not see that, you are blind.

 

[edoorn]

yes, of course a traditional dslr will get the job done too. But the instant feedback on what you're shooting through the EVF can be very valuable for instance for wedding photographers who shoot in rapidly changing lighting conditions with challenges.

The A9 has proven that a mirrorless can offer focus (tracking) capabilities that already are a match or exceed what dslr's can do (think of focus points that can reach the outer edges of a frame). Sport and wildlife photogs will love it (I've shot an A9 during an event on an indoor speed cycling track for an evening and getting good shots of the cyclists was super super easy; the guy that was the pro sports photographer working for that venue instantly decided to switch to an A9, coming from a 1dx).

Plus a truly silent shooting option, which could be great for instance for concert or set photographers.

So yes, there could be advantages for your style of shooting.

 

[Lobot]

I was reading and wondering what kind of mount new FF mirrorless would use, if it is as rumored, a "sexy" one. I had an idea I think was worth registering in here.

So Canon wants to have native compatibility with EF lenses, but also want's to shorter flange distance to make it usefull to buy new lenses for mirrorless system. Sony cameras has this thrid party adapter that changes flange distance to make manual focus lenses to auto focus. What if Canon makes variable flange distance mount with normal EF mount profile.

At max distance fully compatible to EF/EF-S lenses.
At lowest distance minimum working distance for new mirrorless lenses.
New mirrorless lenses does not need internal focusing system as changing flange distance takes care of it.
Cheaper new lenses, no need for extra elements or motors for focusing.
Better image quality in new lenses as lens requires less elements.
Smaller lenses.

Real game changer

 

[transpo1]

Can you enlighten me. Where did you get the information that "Canon clearly intends to tap into existing cache of EF lenses"?

There's no data on this, but there is an overwhelming common sense argument that EF will work seamlessly on FF mirrorless on day one (either via a true EF mount or an EF adaptor) so that Canon can try to sell every SLR user to buy an FF mirrorless body.

In short, the easiest sale Canon could possibly make is to their own customers, and they would do it with seamless EF lens compatibility.

Inverting this, for argument's sake: to not have EF lens compatibility would be tantamount to pulling the Canon name off of the product and offering itself to the world as a brand new system starting from scratch. Canon simply will not do this.

- A

Important to remember, Canon wants new customers, too- as executives have noted, there is money to be made in mirrorless. They see some of the success Sony is having in FF mirrorless and see that there are luxury dollars people will spend on high-end FF MILC. It's not all just about their existing user base. They want new customers, too.

 

[Mikehit]

Can you enlighten me. Where did you get the information that "Canon clearly intends to tap into existing cache of EF lenses"?

There's no data on this, but there is an overwhelming common sense argument that EF will work seamlessly on FF mirrorless on day one (either via a true EF mount or an EF adaptor) so that Canon can try to sell every SLR user to buy an FF mirrorless body.

In short, the easiest sale Canon could possibly make is to their own customers, and they would do it with seamless EF lens compatibility.

Inverting this, for argument's sake: to not have EF lens compatibility would be tantamount to pulling the Canon name off of the product and offering itself to the world as a brand new system starting from scratch. Canon simply will not do this.

- A

Important to remember, Canon wants new customers, too- as executives have noted, there is money to be made in mirrorless. They see some of the success Sony is having in FF mirrorless and see that there are luxury dollars people will spend on high-end FF MILC. It's not all just about their existing user base. They want new customers, too.

Canon's first aim I am sure is to reduce the number of people who switch from Canon to Sony and that will hav two effects: firstly these people will effectively be 'new' customers in that they will be people who would have moved to Sony but instead buy the newest Canon offering. Second, if Canon (and Nikon) reduce the number of people switching that will be a real problem for Sony because Sony's user base so far has been in stealing users from CaNikon - they seem to have a very small native customer base . And if that client line is reduced their income stream and their kudos plummets.

 

[nchoh]

Can you enlighten me. Where did you get the information that "Canon clearly intends to tap into existing cache of EF lenses"?

There's no data on this, but there is an overwhelming common sense argument that EF will work seamlessly on FF mirrorless on day one (either via a true EF mount or an EF adaptor) so that Canon can try to sell every SLR user to buy an FF mirrorless body.

In short, the easiest sale Canon could possibly make is to their own customers, and they would do it with seamless EF lens compatibility.

Inverting this, for argument's sake: to not have EF lens compatibility would be tantamount to pulling the Canon name off of the product and offering itself to the world as a brand new system starting from scratch. Canon simply will not do this.

- A

I totally agree with you that it is overwhelming common sense that Canon should tap into it's huge base of EF lense owners. However, common sense might turn out wrong. And it certainly does not equal to "Canon clearly intends".

 

[ahsanford]

Important to remember, Canon wants new customers, too- as executives have noted, there is money to be made in mirrorless. They see some of the success Sony is having in FF mirrorless and see that there are luxury dollars people will spend on high-end FF MILC. It's not all just about their existing user base. They want new customers, too.

100%. Which is precisely why I think Canon will lead with a thin mount system + adaptor. I would contend Canon would really struggle to make headway against Sony with new users, the up and comers from IG stepping up from cell phones and smaller-sensored gear, etc. if it was a larger, full EF mount setup.

As much as Canon wants to a FF mirrorless rig in the hands of every Canon SLR shooter -- and yes, a full EF mount would likely achieve that particular goal most efficiently -- you can still sell a FF mirrorless rig to Canon users with a thin mount + adaptor. If the controls/ergonomics/shooting experience are highly similar/familiar to their SLR and the EF lenses work perfectly on it, it's still a Canon and it still works well with EF. SLR folks will pick one up in some percentage. It may not be the same percentage as if it was full EF, but I'm assuming Canon will scoop up new business that offsets that.

- A

 

[transpo1]

Important to remember, Canon wants new customers, too- as executives have noted, there is money to be made in mirrorless. They see some of the success Sony is having in FF mirrorless and see that there are luxury dollars people will spend on high-end FF MILC. It's not all just about their existing user base. They want new customers, too.

100%. Which is precisely why I think Canon will lead with a thin mount system + adaptor. I would contend Canon would really struggle to make headway against Sony with new users, the up and comers from IG stepping up from cell phones and smaller-sensored gear, etc. if it was a larger, full EF mount setup.

As much as Canon wants to a FF mirrorless rig in the hands of every Canon SLR shooter -- and yes, a full EF mount would likely achieve that particular goal most efficiently -- you can still sell a FF mirrorless rig to Canon users with a thin mount + adaptor. If the controls/ergonomics/shooting experience are highly similar/familiar to their SLR and the EF lenses work perfectly on it, it's still a Canon and it still works well with EF. SLR folks will pick one up in some percentage. It may not be the same percentage as if it was full EF, but I'm assuming Canon will scoop up new business that offsets that.

- A

Totally- agree 100%. They want the money before Sony and Nikon get it.

 

[springle]

Mostly I photograph birds. A FF mirrorless is not especially interesting to me. The Lens Factor of an APS-C body helps obtain closer photos.

I am now using a Sony RX10-IV for many photos. I appreciate the noiseless "shutter", although shooting at 24 fps eats up memory cards. I have often seen birds jump at the sound of a shutter. This model of Sony focuses quickly through the EVF. I have little or no use for the rear LCD. However when I shut it off, I could no longer review images on the LCD. So far I have not been very successful focusing on birds in flight.

Also I am planning on purchasing a Canon 600mm F4.0 (hopefully better than the Zeiss 600mm F4.0 on the Sony) and I am holding off on the purchase until I have a clear understanding of the future of coupling with mirrorless bodies - as I anticipate mirrorless is where the future lies.

Givien the frame rates and the silent shutter, I am dismayed that Canon would release a FF mirrorless body. Zero interest for me unless there is some whiz-bang feature that I am not anticipating. If Canon can obtain speedy focusing on a mirrorless body, then I would definitely purchase a APS-C mirrorless body, but not much interest in a FF mirrorless which seems more like a corporate prestige product than something of serious use.

(However, a full frame mirrorless body of over 50 MP would allow cropping to roughly the same pixel count as a current-model 20 MP APS-C body. Such a large pixel-count would likely slow down the frame rate and a teeny subject in the viewfinder would make focusing difficult.)

 

[transpo1]

Can you enlighten me. Where did you get the information that "Canon clearly intends to tap into existing cache of EF lenses"?

There's no data on this, but there is an overwhelming common sense argument that EF will work seamlessly on FF mirrorless on day one (either via a true EF mount or an EF adaptor) so that Canon can try to sell every SLR user to buy an FF mirrorless body.

In short, the easiest sale Canon could possibly make is to their own customers, and they would do it with seamless EF lens compatibility.

Inverting this, for argument's sake: to not have EF lens compatibility would be tantamount to pulling the Canon name off of the product and offering itself to the world as a brand new system starting from scratch. Canon simply will not do this.

- A

Important to remember, Canon wants new customers, too- as executives have noted, there is money to be made in mirrorless. They see some of the success Sony is having in FF mirrorless and see that there are luxury dollars people will spend on high-end FF MILC. It's not all just about their existing user base. They want new customers, too.

Canon's first aim I am sure is to reduce the number of people who switch from Canon to Sony and that will hav two effects: firstly these people will effectively be 'new' customers in that they will be people who would have moved to Sony but instead buy the newest Canon offering. Second, if Canon (and Nikon) reduce the number of people switching that will be a real problem for Sony because Sony's user base so far has been in stealing users from CaNikon - they seem to have a very small native customer base . And if that client line is reduced their income stream and their kudos plummets.

And to get new customers who may try a Nikon FF MILC. They want the Sony FF market and to get potential switchers for sure, but it is no coincidence that Canon's release timeframe seems to be the same as Nikon's for their first FF MILC. Canon has historically always tried to match Nikon. Some rivalries die hard, I guess.

 

[ahsanford]

Canon has historically always tried to match Nikon. Some rivalries die hard, I guess.

I agree. I love my EF 24-70 f/2.8L IS, EF 14-24mm f/2.8L and EF 200-500 f/5.6L IS that only got made because Canon had to match what Nik--

Oh. Wait. That never happened.

Though the overall offerings fall into similar buckets between the two companies, I think there are a lot of differences in release timing and tiering of the FF portfolio of bodies. There's a pretty clear stutter step in timing and difference in lengths of product lifecycles if you check Keith's charts at Northlight.

However, all that said, for this 'super big deal' sort of offering, I really do think the two companies may drop news within days of each other. So I am, in no uncertain terms, expecting some premium grade 'marketing brinkmanship' and fanfare as Canon announces, Nikon announces and Sony responds with a counter-announcement -- quite possibly at Photokina.

- A

 

[hkenneth]

Mostly I photograph birds. A FF mirrorless is not especially interesting to me. The Lens Factor of an APS-C body helps obtain closer photos.

I actually prefer FF body for taking photos of birds. Birds are most active before sunrise and right before sunset and a FF body allows me to take pictures at ISO1000-2000 with very good noise control.

This picture was taken at 7:41 pm at ISO1600. Right before sunset, birds often allow me to get very close. This picture was not cropped.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/143732728@N06/42343263575/in/datetaken/