Canon will release an APS-C RF mount camera(s) later in 2022 [CR3]

[EOS 4 Life]

EOS M series are a lot lighter. I usually take an EOS M6II with 11-22, 22, 32, (sigma 56 or 18-150) when I go out. The same camera bag can't even carry 1 FF DLSR body and 1 kit lens.

I just wish the M6II or an equivalent camera had a fully articulating screen that could fold closed and be protected in my pocket

 

[entoman]

I'm also looking forward to months of lectures from self-appointed forum experts on "reach" and "equivalence."

Actually, whenever I read these "equivalence" lectures, the first thing I do is reach...

 

[Loswr]

EF-M seems to have served its purpose as a hold-over mount to test the waters.

Yes, Canon dipped a toe in the water with the M series, they only have four of the top 10 best sellers domestically with the line. Clearly it would be stupid to keep swimming in that pool…at least, in your opinion.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

What market have they ceded?

EOS M200 EF-M 15-45mm IS STM Kit

Fast and Accurate Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Eye Detection AF. High-Image Quality with 24.1 Megapixel CMOS (APS-C) Sensor. 4K Video and 4K Time-lapse Movie along with Vertical video*. 3.0-inch Touch Panel LCD Screen with Tilt Option for 180° for Selfies. Built-in Bluetooth®** and Wi-Fi®...

www.usa.canon.com

Slots #2-7 on the domestic best-selling ILC list belong to Canon. Note the other clear message in that list – the DSLR is far from dead, unless people believe that dead products are best-sellers.

View attachment 201467

I would say that Canon needs something to take on the ZV-E10.
I selfishly hope so because a Canon version would be so much better

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Does that mean you believe there that if there is an APS-C EOS R then there will be RF-s lenses (or whatever functional equivalent), to achieve that smaller/lighter form factor?

I have no doubt there will be APS-C RF lenses if there are APS-C R cameras.
What I doubt is that those APS-C lenses would be on a separate mount like EF-S lenses were.
The R5 and R6 crop into APS-C when APS-C lenses are attached.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

32mp is always better than 20mp

Cool.
So you would trade me a 1DX III for an RP?

 

[slclick]

So what?
It sells very well without that.

Does anyone realistically expect Canon to offer an EF/RF style catalog of glass for the M system?

Only complainers here use that tact when slamming their way through the mirrorless aps-c vs FF debate. Users (I, for one) thoroughly enjoyed the range of lenses.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Olicom was in that position in 1999. Increasing market share and good margins. But in a market (Token Ring networking) that folded upon them. They were basically bankrupt nine months later (sold the R&D department for one dollar).

I'm not saying that the DSLR APS-C market is falling apart, but Canon needs to keep a very fixed eye on where the emergency door is, in case that a collapse should appear to happen.

Canon has a pretty solid market share in mirrorless.
They will be fine either way

 

[EOS 4 Life]

A decade ago, the all-knowing interwebs made it clear that Canon was late to the APS-C mirrorless party, and that the original M was a lackluster entry that was barely a glorified PowerShot with a detachable lens. That story ended with Canon leading the APS-C MILC market after~5 years. I wonder where the FF MILC story will end up?

Sony started the FF MILC market just after Canon entered the APS-C MILC market that Sony had been leading. That was not a coincidence. The problem for Sony is that they’ve nowhere left to run. #vaio


The numbers for the past few years show that most of Sony’s gains were at Nikon’s expense (as were Canon’s gains).

So now I expect a Sony medium format camera next.
Watch out Fuji!

 

[Loswr]

So now I expect a Sony medium format camera next.
Watch out Fuji!

I wonder what that market is like now. A few years back, a Leica exec said that the entire medium format digital market (not just their share) comprised about 6000 units per year.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

An RF mount APS-C mirrorless makes sense for birders, but little else. Existing mirrorless APS-C cameras sell for only a little less than their FF counterparts, and aren't much smaller or lighter when using mounts common to FF.

Catering to the birders is fine, but there exists very little advantage to APS-C in terms of size or weight when utilizing a FF mount. After having and using an RP for the last year, I wouldn't consider going back to an APS-C. Cost and weight savings would be minimal, and it would represent a step back for most uses. Saddle an APS-C camera with a FF mount and you sacrifice most of the potential advantages of a camera with the smaller sensor.

The majority of 90D owners are not birders

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Cameras and lenses are core businesses for Canon. It is win or lose completely for them.

Canon could stop making cameras and lenses and they would still be a very profitable company

 

[David - Sydney]

Canon could stop making cameras and lenses and they would still be a very profitable company

why is that?

 

[EOS 4 Life]

The fact that it sells like hotcakes.

When was the last time you bought hotcakes?

 

[Loswr]

sigh.
Canon is predominately a imaging company including medical, scanning and printing. Cameras and lenses are core businesses for Canon. It is win or lose completely for them.

The Imaging division comprises about 18% of their business, but 1/3 of that is network cameras and other. So what we think of as Canon cameras (ILCs and P&S) accounts for about 12% of their business. Is 12% win or lose completely? Or was the sigh an expression of disappointment with your own business acumen?

 

[David - Sydney]

The Imaging division comprises about 18% of their business, but 1/3 of that is network cameras and other. So what we think of as Canon cameras (ILCs and P&S) accounts for about 12% of their business. Is 12% win or lose completely? Or was the sigh an expression of disappointment with your own business acumen?

Fair point, I should have researched that and have now edited my previous post
Happy to learn something every day.
What % of revenue do you estimate is Sony's camera division?

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Are people actually buying? I personally can't think of any non photographer who would buy a standalone camera today. Maybe during the lockdown some bought cameras for the kids in place of a web camera. But virtually everybody uses their phone instead of a camera.

The shop I mentioned might be twice the size of a best buy.

The pandemic led a lot of people working from home to buy cameras for video conferencing.
Camera companies added streaming to the firmware because video capture devices were sold out.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

I’d love to have a go of the 100-500! Haven’t used one yet. I can certainly see your reasoning. Just think that having that 5.6 over 7.1 at the long end would be advantageous. Maybe not a lot, but it’d definitely help smooth those backgrounds out a bit! The problem with a 500 f4 is the price!! A 500 f5.6 for around £2500 is the dream for me!

It is nowhere near as good but Sigma makes an EF 500 f/4 that is much cheaper than the Canon one.
It weighs about the same which is why I still wish for a Canon RF 500 f/5.6 DO

 

[slclick]

I wonder what that market is like now. A few years back, a Leica exec said that the entire medium format digital market (not just their share) comprised about 6000 units per year.

Mostly purchased by Community College Visual Art and Design Associate Professors. Probably Mamiyas not Leicas, lol.

 

[takesome1]

Fair point, I should have researched that.
Happy to learn something every day.
What % of revenue do you estimate is Sony's camera division?

By their latest financial 11.7%.
Income 15%
Image and Sensing Solutions