Canon will release an RF mount ‘vlogging’ camera in 2022 [CR3]

Jan 4, 2022
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What makes you think most buyers of entry level bodies are repeat buyers of entry level bodies, such that they would need reassurance?

Step back and look at the bigger picture. Multiple Canon representatives in multiple geographies are stating that Canon will continue supporting a system that represents 30% of its camera sales. It’s a very reasonable statement to make, just as if a Toyota exec stated they would keep selling the Camry.

But you think it’s a global marketing conspiracy to dupe unsuspecting consumers in to bait-and-switch purchases of a line that Canon is about to abandon. Better get your tinfoil hat checked, sounds like it’s too tight.
But will it still be 30% when R7 and R10 are broadly available?
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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… the M-system cash cow dies more slowly?
Remember in 2013, when the ‘death of the consumer DSLR’ was predicted to be 5 years away?

8DA5AAE0-C046-40B2-8EBD-9421809D3251.jpeg

It’s been 9 years and DSLRs still comprise 40% of Canon’s camera sales.

These ‘dying cash cows’ sure seem to take their own sweet time about dying, don’t they? :rolleyes:

Here’s an idea: those who believe the M line is dead can just keep stating that consistently. In the same way a broken analog clock shows the correct time twice a day, maybe they’ll be right…in a decade or two. Until then, their statements will continue making them look foolish, just like Andrew Reid.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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Depends upon the prices including a kit lens.
R7 w/ kit lens: $1900
R10 w/ kit lens: $1100
M50 II w/ kit lens: $700
M200 w/ kit lens: $550
Rebel T7 (2000D) w/ kit lens: $480

Certainly cameras costing 2-4x as much will dramatically cut into sales of those much cheaper cameras. Or so I might say if I had less business acumen than a bowling ball and/or a strong desire to make myself look foolish.
 
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Jan 4, 2022
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Depends upon the prices including a kit lens.
Yes, but it also depends on who is willing to spend its hard earned money in an dying system with old cameras and lenses or rather in a new system with state of the art cameras and lenses ...

Keep in mind R7 and R10 are already reality.
R100, R7c and (NEW!)R10a are already rumored.
Not to mention the upgrade path to new FF R-cameras.
Not to mention the rumored new RF and RF-S lenses.

What are the M news?
Nothing (except some babble of a neurotic anatomist)

By the way ... R10 (kit) and M6 II (kit) have quite exactly the same price!
 
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Jan 4, 2022
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R7 w/ kit lens: $1900
R10 w/ kit lens: $1100
M50 II w/ kit lens: $700
M200 w/ kit lens: $550
Rebel T7 (2000D) w/ kit lens: $480

Certainly cameras costing 2-4x as much will dramatically cut into sales of those much cheaper cameras. Or so I might say if I had less business acumen than a bowling ball and/or a strong desire to make myself look foolish.
You have "forgotten" to mention the M6 II.

The M6 II kit 1082€
R10 kit 1099€

There is a direct competition between M6 II and R10.
Somehow a business clown like you has missed that!

Oh wait ...
First you claim the M6 II isn't discontinued.
Now the M6 II is even not existing.
Funny!

"You change your mind
Like a girl changes clothes"
 
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Sep 20, 2020
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Given that, why should we believe that the quote "... it is unlikely that the M series will not be upgraded in the future" is intended to provide useful and correct information to current and prospective buyers instead of just manipulating those buyers so that the M-system cash cow dies more slowly?
It is generally not wise for publicly traded to make false comments that could influence investors
 
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Remember in 2013, when the ‘death of the consumer DSLR’ was predicted to be 5 years away?

View attachment 204493

It’s been 9 years and DSLRs still comprise 40% of Canon’s camera sales.

These ‘dying cash cows’ sure seem to take their own sweet time about dying, don’t they? :rolleyes:

Here’s an idea: those who believe the M line is dead can just keep stating that consistently. In the same way a broken analog clock shows the correct time twice a day, maybe they’ll be right…in a decade or two. Until then, their statements will continue making them look foolish, just like Andrew Reid.
but are they making any new ef lens or DSLR?
 
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What about ambiguous comments to influence customers?
Does, ”The M series accounts for as much as 30% of our camera sales revenue, which is a very high number, so it is impossible for us to stop upgrading the M series in the future,” sound ambiguous to you?

I’m just not seeing it. Maybe if I had a tinfoil hat like yours I could see the subtle nuances of ambiguity Canon is using to influence their weak-minded customers with statements like the above.

More broadly, of course corporate spokespeople make ambiguous statements, especially in interviews. Usually, it’s because they either can’t provide the information or don’t know it. Even when they do know and are allowed to state the information, they usually throw in a little intentional ambiguity because experience has taught them that plans change. That’s why, in this case, I suspect CanonWatch’s translation of the phrase as ‘unlikely the M series will not be upgraded’ is probably more accurate than Google’s translation as ‘impossible for us to stop upgrading the M series’. The former sounds more like what an exec would say (at least in the US and Europe, I don’t know if behavior is different in Asia). But the point of the intentional ambiguity is to avoid statements being made retroactively false if current plans change, not to dupe customers.
 
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but are they making any new ef lens or DSLR?
I don’t think we’ll see anymore EF lenses launched. It’s a mature line, releases in the last decade were incremental upgrades to existing lenses.

I do suspect we will see one or two more DSLR launches from Canon – xxxD and/or xxxxD bodies with minor upgrades from current entry-level bodies, the main purpose really wbeing to update the release year.
 
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stevelee

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Yes, but it also depends on who is willing to spend its hard earned money in an dying system with old cameras and lenses or rather in a new system with state of the art cameras and lenses ...
Entry-level buyers are rarely much concerned about buying into a system. A fair percentage of them never buy any more lenses than the one or two they get with the camera.

Even I, who had once been rather serious about photography, bought my first Rebel as an impulse purchase. I stopped into H. H. Gregg to look at TVs and washers and dryers. I saw a good price on the camera. The deal included a case and some odds and ends, and for an extra $100 I could get a 75–300mm lens, too. With the kit lens that gave me the equivalent of 24mm to 480mm range, so why would I buy anything else or worry about an upgrade path? I took many good photos with that equipment. (When I was a kid I took many good photos with a Kodak Brownie, though likely not as good as the pictures that Ansel Adams took with a box camera.)

As it turned out, I did over the years spend thousands of dollars more on Canon cameras and lenses, but that was not my concern when I bought the first Rebel. I can easily understand folks who buy entry level cameras without thinking, “How will this affect me ten or fifteen years from now?” I was one of them. As it turned out, in retirement I wound up more comfortable financially than I had anticipated, and I wound up devoting more of my time to photography, but I didn’t know that in 2007.

(And I realize things have changed somewhat over the last 15 years, as cell phone cameras have gotten better, and a lot of folks are mainly just taking pictures of themselves. So the number and range of folks buying entry-level cameras has changed. Stats suggest that the cash cows for camera makers tend more toward Rebel and M class than toward TS-E lenses or the R3.)
 
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Entry-level buyers are rarely much concerned about buying into a system. A fair percentage of them never buy any more lenses than the one or two they get with the camera.
Exactly. While you're correct that the entry-level buyer profile has changed over time, it can be reasonably inferred from data Canon has shared (e.g. 70% of their camera sales are DSLR and M bodies) and top-seller lists that entry-level kits still comprise the majority of Canon's camera sales. Such buyers are not following interviews with Canon executives as they make their buying decisions. Canon tries to influence them through advertisements placed with media outlets and by providing cameras to 'influencers'. The suggestion that Canon is trying to influence entry-level buyers with ambiguous statements by executives being interviewed is ridiculous.
 
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It is quite amazing that people can spend pages and pages of arguments on a subject that they don't know the answers to.
Question to those who feel like that they are on a mission to convince others that the M system is dead and will be discontinued. What exactly are you trying to prove? We don't know the answer as to what will happen to the M system, and yet you seem to be adamant that you do know. Trying to show everyone here that you have brilliant predictive powers? Or what exactly?

What do we know?
The M system makes up 30% of Canon's sales.
The M6 II is apparently discontinued, at least in some markets.
Canon is releasing APS-C cameras.

All the rest is speculation.

Who has the guts to admit they don't actually know what will happen and that all of their arguments regarding the demise of the M system are just a waste of time and effort? And that name-calling and insults when people confront them with the facts are just immature and border on trolling?

Anybody have the guts??
 
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Jan 4, 2022
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Entry-level buyers are rarely much concerned about buying into a system. A fair percentage of them never buy any more lenses than the one or two they get with the camera.

Even I, who had once been rather serious about photography, bought my first Rebel as an impulse purchase. I stopped into H. H. Gregg to look at TVs and washers and dryers. I saw a good price on the camera. The deal included a case and some odds and ends, and for an extra $100 I could get a 75–300mm lens, too. With the kit lens that gave me the equivalent of 24mm to 480mm range, so why would I buy anything else or worry about an upgrade path? I took many good photos with that equipment. (When I was a kid I took many good photos with a Kodak Brownie, though likely not as good as the pictures that Ansel Adams took with a box camera.)

As it turned out, I did over the years spend thousands of dollars more on Canon cameras and lenses, but that was not my concern when I bought the first Rebel. I can easily understand folks who buy entry level cameras without thinking, “How will this affect me ten or fifteen years from now?” I was one of them. As it turned out, in retirement I wound up more comfortable financially than I had anticipated, and I wound up devoting more of my time to photography, but I didn’t know that in 2007.

(And I realize things have changed somewhat over the last 15 years, as cell phone cameras have gotten better, and a lot of folks are mainly just taking pictures of themselves. So the number and range of folks buying entry-level cameras has changed. Stats suggest that the cash cows for camera makers tend more toward Rebel and M class than toward TS-E lenses or the R3.)
As you said, the buying behavior for cameras changed in the last 15 years.

15 years ago a lot of people (me included) weren't spending that much money in their (smart)phones. Therefore impulse purchases for "real" cameras were far more likely.

Nowadays smartphone cameras are so good that only an decreasing(!) number of people are willing to spend their money in additional "traditional" cameras. These people are more aware of what they need and what they buy regarding photography. If you already have spent 800€ (or even more) in your iPhone13 you are well aware that spending only 500€ in a camera (with kit lens) won't give you much (or even no) advantage to your smartphone!

M isn't dying because of the R system. It is dying because it cannot evolve with time.
It is limited to small, cheap, light which was good enough while (smart)phone cameras were also limited. But this is not enough to compete with increasingly powerful smartphone cameras nowadays and in the future.

For nearly every photographing subject you will also find very good smartphone examples nowadays. The big advantages of traditional cameras are better tracking capabilities of fast moving subjects with higher burst speed and more reach (tele lenses). Especially everything combined as in sports and wildlife photography.

M never offered this nor probably(!) will.
R does and will also do in the future.

This is my OPINION (based on facts).
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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It is quite amazing that people can spend pages and pages of arguments on a subject that they don't know the answers to.
Question to those who feel like that they are on a mission to convince others that the M system is dead and will be discontinued. What exactly are you trying to prove? We don't know the answer as to what will happen to the M system, and yet you seem to be adamant that you do know. Trying to show everyone here that you have brilliant predictive powers? Or what exactly?

What do we know?
The M system makes up 30% of Canon's sales.
The M6 II is apparently discontinued, at least in some markets.
Canon is releasing APS-C cameras.

All the rest is speculation.

Who has the guts to admit they don't actually know what will happen and that all of their arguments regarding the demise of the M system are just a waste of time and effort? And that name-calling and insults when people confront them with the facts are just immature and border on trolling?

Anybody have the guts??
Definitely agree that no one here knows the fate of the M-series. However, I presume that a VP and country-level CEO for Canon is likely to have at least some knowledge of the fate of the M-series, and one of those individuals explicitly stated the line would see future updates. For him to state that publicly is significant, because he would have known in advance what he could and could not reveal about Canon's plans.

As you say, we know that the M system comprises 30% of Canon's camera sales. Letting that market segment wither away is certainly not in Canon's best interest. Honestly, I'm not sure how it's in anyone's on this forum's best interest to have fewer camera choices. I was completely wrong about Canon launching an APS-C EOS R, but for photographers in general I'm quite happy that I was wrong about that.

I suppose maybe the argument is that if Canon stops making [insert products I don't personally want], then they'll develop and launch [insert products I spend my nights dreaming about fondling], just for me. Lol.
 
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I was completely wrong about Canon launching an APS-C EOS R, but for photographers in general I'm quite happy that I was wrong about that.
My first thought: Your account was hacked! ;)
My second: I'm quite speechless ... I never thought you would ever admit a mistake!

Well ... I knew I was wrong with the xitek translation but it was too late to admit! :rolleyes:
Honestly, I'm not sure how it's in anyone's on this forum's best interest to have fewer camera choices.
I think that was related (not only but also) to me. Let me try to clarify some things:
Yes, I think Canon will offer "fewer camera choices" in the future. This is also regarding to mounts. I have reasons to think so, like you have your reasons not to think so!

But this doesn't mean I am happy about that! If I could decide I would always prefer having more options instead of less. But I can't decide. I have to accept what's been offered. Like you and everyone else I also don't know what Canon will do in the future. All is speculation based on what I see and hear.

I know you (and others) in this forum think I hate the M system. This is not true. I hated how M supporters were talking about supposed RF APS-C cameras over the years. Probably I feel too much malicious joy now that the tables have turned.

If I'm wrong about the future of the M system it would be totally fine because now I already have what I wanted (R7)!

I suppose maybe the argument is that if Canon stops making [insert products I don't personally want], then they'll develop and launch [insert products I spend my nights dreaming about fondling], just for me. Lol.
No, the argument is that there is no reason to support two APS-C lines (or even three with EF) and nothing else!
 
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