Canon Wins Patent for Its ‘Shoulda Coulda’ Supertelephoto Designs

[becceric]

When was the last time you saw a big white on sale .

I know this doesn’t count, but after watching the EF 600mm f/4III not go on sale for over 10 months, last fall I finally bit the bullet. Since then I’ve seen a refurb pop up twice. While it’s not a sale on a new one, my checkbook and I each shed a tear two.

 

[David - Sydney]

When has this ever happened with Canon L lenses and Bodies?
Maybe after several years and the next generation of the lens or body is released.
In 6 months maybe the body and lens is finally in stock and you don't have to pre-order.

In Australia, the R5 price has dropped about AUD500 from the initial pricing. There has been sales at different times.That started about a year after release.
I got a 20% off price for the RF100-500mm lens for instance within a few months of release though.
5 year local Canon warranty is another differentiator from other markets and pre-orders did get an extra battery/strap as well.

 

[Tirmite]

I think it’s safe to assume everyone who reads this blog is relatively bright. So can we please dispense with the “three times cheaper” nonsense and use proper English and common sense? Math really isn’t THAT frightening. Fractions really aren’t that confusing, are they? There was a time when people could comprehend “one third the price” or any other amount expressed in 1/X format. It’s insulting to be talked to like a child. It’s also a very sad commentary if people need that sort of dumb-downed language.
Kind of silly in an article chocked full of technical information. SMH

 

[entoman]

Three years ago I would have agreed with you. But in this new era of supply chain delays and shortages, waiting six months often results in a higher, not a lower, price. The 100-500 has seen two price increases since I ordered it in May of last year.

Yeah, maybe I'm living in the past. Up until now I've always made it a policy to wait 6 months for prices to drop, and typically they have done so - the last camera I bought was my R5 and that dropped after the first 6 months. But the recent price hikes by Canon may alter my way of thinking. I've always been reluctant to be a beta tester for newly launched bodies, but it probably makes sense with lenses these days to order them as soon as they are launched.

 

[entoman]

I think it’s safe to assume everyone who reads this blog is relatively bright. So can we please dispense with the “three times cheaper” nonsense and use proper English and common sense? Math really isn’t THAT frightening. Fractions really aren’t that confusing, are they? There was a time when people could comprehend “one third the price” or any other amount expressed in 1/X format. It’s insulting to be talked to like a child. It’s also a very sad commentary if people need that sort of dumb-downed language.
Kind of silly in an article chocked full of technical information. SMH

Who said anything, about anything being "three times cheaper"?

Don't forget, when criticising people for not using "proper English", that English is not the native language of a sizeable percentage of visitors here.

How about showing a bit more tolerance and respect toward your fellow readers?

 

[InchMetric]

Except Canon was touting all of the benefits of the RF mount for lens design including fewer focusing groups and lighter/shorter lenses, none of which materialized in the 400/600. The new Nikkor 800 is sharper and lighter and less than half the cost of the Canon 800/5.6. For the 800/1200 Canon literally copied and pasted their teleconverters into existing lenses resulting in performance that is hardly better than 10+ year old lenses as the article points out. Very few seem to be thrilled about these new lenses.

I don't recall Canon "touting" them for every conceivable lens they would make, and certainly not in the long supertelephoto range. All the technical miracles occurred in those before the RF was made public.

"Literally copied and pasted" is ridiculous. Your post exemplifies the emotional irrationality I'm seeing on this topic. PLease share the improvement you think Canon should have made to the EF 400 f2.8iii

 

[InchMetric]

The dog not barking here is INFLATION. If a lens has no gone up by 10% in the last year, it's because the effects haven';t been realized, but they're there. You will look back on these at the good old days as when we could buy lenses at "old prices." A big White for little over $10k will seem like a dream. (Note how the RF800 and RF1200 demonstrate this for no reason other than inflation).

If you have cash (or low interest fixed-rate financing - same thing) and you aren't buying tangibles you might need or be able to sell, you're missing an opportunity.

That $12k RF400 f2.8 will look awfully attractive when 2023 pricing puts it at $14k.

 

[mbike999]

I don't recall Canon "touting" them for every conceivable lens they would make, and certainly not in the long supertelephoto range. All the technical miracles occurred in those before the RF was made public.

"Literally copied and pasted" is ridiculous. Your post exemplifies the emotional irrationality I'm seeing on this topic. PLease share the improvement you think Canon should have made to the EF 400 f2.8iii

I don't understand why you think stating facts is "emotional irrationality". The 800 and 1200 are literally EF lens designs with an added 1.4x or 2.0x teleconverter group. Furthermore, Canon never developed these lens designs for dual mount, aka mirrorless, as you claim. They were quoted as such in a DPReview interview right after launch:​

"Were the EF 400mm F2.8L IS III and 600mm F4L IS III developed from the outset with the intention of being ‘dual mount’ designs, for both EF and RF?​

The EF 400mm F2.8L IS III USM and EF 600mm F4L IS III USM, which we released in 2018, were manufactured to an extremely high level of perfection in order to realize high image quality, light weight and high-performance IS. However, we did not develop these lenses with the intention of making them 'dual-mount.'"

​

 

[koenkooi]

Yeah, maybe I'm living in the past. Up until now I've always made it a policy to wait 6 months for prices to drop,[..]

Canon (or rather the supply chain) kinda forces you into this nowadays, the first batch sells out in minutes and the second batch takes 6 months to become available.
For things on a yearly refresh cycle (e.g. TVs) it makes a lot of sense to wait 6 months and then give local shops a phone call asking for their best price.

 

[dominic_siu]

Whatever lens(es) you want/need to buy and if you have the money, buy it now rather than wait.

 

[InchMetric]

I don't understand why you think stating facts is "emotional irrationality". The 800 and 1200 are literally EF lens designs with an added 1.4x or 2.0x teleconverter group. Furthermore, Canon never developed these lens designs for dual mount, aka mirrorless, as you claim. They were quoted as such in a DPReview interview right after launch:​

"Were the EF 400mm F2.8L IS III and 600mm F4L IS III developed from the outset with the intention of being ‘dual mount’ designs, for both EF and RF?​

The EF 400mm F2.8L IS III USM and EF 600mm F4L IS III USM, which we released in 2018, were manufactured to an extremely high level of perfection in order to realize high image quality, light weight and high-performance IS. However, we did not develop these lenses with the intention of making them 'dual-mount.'"

​

The bold print really enhances your point that this isn’t emotional for you.

 

[LogicExtremist]

Several recent RF lenses went the opposite direction, with one or two successive price increases in the months following launch.

Early adopters pay full retail price for the pleasure. By waiting for the first major sale after release, the sales discount on the lenses may be up to 20% off. Wait too long in the marketing cycle where the company can really measure the demand and the prices go up (well, they have been recently).

 

[neuroanatomist]

Early adopters pay full retail price for the pleasure. By waiting for the first major sale after release, the sales discount on the lenses may be up to 20% off. Wait too long in the marketing cycle where the company can really measure the demand and the prices go up (well, they have been recently).

Thanks for that excellent advice from last decade. When you're ready, feel free to join us in the 2020's.

 

[LogicExtremist]

Thanks for that excellent advice from last decade. When you're ready, feel free to join us in the 2020's.

View attachment 203241View attachment 203242

You've picked some of the most expensive lenses that rarely ever go on sale, but that may reflect your buying patterns, so that would be reasonable from your won perspective. I got all my RF lenses at quite a discount and I'm happy!

You're welcome to join me here back in time, the prices are much better, the supply chains are running efficiently, and the range of Canon EF lenses is pretty awesome!

 

[tarjei99]

Except Canon was touting all of the benefits of the RF mount for lens design including fewer focusing groups and lighter/shorter lenses, none of which materialized in the 400/600. The new Nikkor 800 is sharper and lighter and less than half the cost of the Canon 800/5.6. For the 800/1200 Canon literally copied and pasted their teleconverters into existing lenses resulting in performance that is hardly better than 10+ year old lenses as the article points out. Very few seem to be thrilled about these new lenses.

If Olympus knew anything about marketing, they should be thrilled. An OM-1 with a 150-400mm F/4.5 will be very competitive. Especially if the improve slightly the eye AF (which is reasonable, but not very good).

Even a slower 100-400mm would be fine for birders.

 

[mbike999]

If Olympus knew anything about marketing, they should be thrilled. An OM-1 with a 150-400mm F/4.5 will be very competitive. Especially if the improve slightly the eye AF (which is reasonable, but not very good).

Even a slower 100-400mm would be fine for birders.

I own that combination, and the animal eye AF is as good or better than anything the big three have. As for Canon I am very curious to see what kind of built-in TC super tele they (hopefully) have up their sleeve, since they pioneered this design and others are simply running with it.

 

[Dragon]

I know this doesn’t count, but after watching the EF 600mm f/4III not go on sale for over 10 months, last fall I finally bit the bullet. Since then I’ve seen a refurb pop up twice. While it’s not a sale on a new one, my checkbook and I each shed a tear two.

Yes, occasionally a refurb is an option, but you have to be very diligent to find big whites in the refurb section. I got a very good deal on an EF800 from an ad on a pro photographer's site, but the process was a little nerve wracking as it involved sending 7 grand to an otherwise unknown recipient and depending on the site owner's verification of his advertisers. In the end it all worked out well and the lens is mint, but not a process for the weak-kneed.

 

[becceric]

Yes, occasionally a refurb is an option, but you have to be very diligent to find big whites in the refurb section. I got a very good deal on an EF800 from an ad on a pro photographer's site, but the process was a little nerve wracking as it involved sending 7 grand to an otherwise unknown recipient and depending on the site owner's verification of his advertisers. In the end it all worked out well and the lens is mint, but not a process for the weak-kneed.

I agree, diligent and nerve racking are accurate. My purchase was complicated by Canon’s in stock/actually out of stock emails after payment. To receive the desired lens, I actually went with Hunt’s Photo. While they have a good reputation, it was my first transaction with them. My heart palpitations stopped after the carrier delivered the lens.
I went through the Canon refurb process three other times, very satisfactorily.

 

[Dragon]

I agree, diligent and nerve racking are accurate. My purchase was complicated by Canon’s in stock/actually out of stock emails after payment. To receive the desired lens, I actually went with Hunt’s Photo. While they have a good reputation, it was my first transaction with them. My heart palpitations stopped after the carrier delivered the lens.
I went through the Canon refurb process three other times, very satisfactorily.

Yes, Canon direct refurb is golden, and you get basically a new warranty. I have purchased many lenses that way with zero complaints. The EF 800 I got was used, not a refurb, but it is a thing of beauty and in spite of all the fans of the 600 II, I think the 800 with extenders has the best resolution/reach of any lens you can buy. The only downside is that is big and heavy. I have the RF 800 f/11, and it is close enough that it is preferable for many uses simply due to its extreme portability. It is good enough on the R5 that I ordered an RF 1.4 extender that should have been here today but got delayed in shipment 'till tomorrow. Curious to see how the resolution holds with the 1.4. The EF 800 is flawless at 1.4 and still very sharp with a 2x extender, even on a 5Dsr or R5. The pic below is 100% crop of the EF800 with 2x converter on a 90D (i.e. 80 MP full frame equiv.)

 

[entoman]

I own that combination, and the animal eye AF is as good or better than anything the big three have.

Have you used current Sony, Nikon and Canon cameras, and compared the animal-eye AF directly between them, shooting the same subjects, under identical conditions, with the same equivalent focal lengths and apertures?

If not, that's a pretty wild claim to make.