Canon's Full Frame Future [CR2]

[pedro]

The rumors for the 5D4 are pretty disappointing. Sure a few extra stops will be nice, but I want to retain the same MP as the current camera and get the new HDR tech that's rumored to be in the 1DX2.

I'm pretty happy with my current 5D3's...if this rumour's true...I'll be missing a generation and looking to a 5D5 instead.

They have their high MP camera now. Two of them in fact, at an insane 50MP. They have realized they can't beat all the competition on every spec in one single do-it-all body. They are specializing and kneecapping the competition with specialized bodies. Solid idea.

Let the MP fans go buy the high MP camera. If Canon could REALLY add "a few" stops (as CR Guy joked) of high ISO performance to a body specially designed for that purpose there would be a big market, myself enthusiastically included. Even adding "just 2" full stops and AF at -3 or -4 EV would be insaneLy great. I would be happy to take this camera in either 5d4 form, or in a 6d2 provided they will improve the latter's AF system with about 30 or 35 all cross-type points. That light up RED in the dark.

Please please.

Count me in, Scotty...!

 

[e17paul]

What I read from this is that:

1) 5D IV will be the 1D X in a 5D body and maybe get the new AF as a boost.
2) 6D II will be the 5D III in a smaller, feature rich body.
3) 1D X II will be the new King to rule them all (beat the D5(s) and Sony offerings).

Correction: 2) 6D II will be the 5D III in a smaller, feature rich body, but with the 7D 19 point autofocus.

Once all these arrive back at the original launch prices of the models they replace, there will be a gap at the bottomn of the FF range. Existing 6D in a cheaper body? Canon would be mad not to open up up the FF market a little further, and the launch of FF STM lenses seems to be preparing the ground for such a camera.

 

[llocq]

I really don't care about MP...I got that covered with the 5DS/R..

I actually need 2 type of cameras in my bag.

A high MP monster (5DS/R) and an all around type (current 5DMKIII) or the MKIV with whatever MP count.
All I need in that camera is high iso, DR and a descent fps (6-7).If they go with the 18MP is still enough to work with.

Currently own a 6D and a 5DMKIII and I feel like I have the same camera twice...

As for the 6D things that really need to change are
1:the AF system (check)
2:the back wheel (I really hate that thing)
3:A non fixed screen (don't really need it but I'd love to have one)
4UAL CARD SLOT (the one thing I don't get...it should have been there in the first place)

 

[Silvertt7]

5DIV sounds like a step backwards as well as forward... NOT what it needs right now. Canon needs to move forward only given what the competition is doing with their bodies.

 

[Neutral]

If Canon wants to make new bodies (e.g. 5DmiV) to be attractive for videographers and not only for photographers I am afraid they need to do something really difficult for them to make something that could be capable of doing the same as shown below:

https://vimeo.com/131567877
REFUGE // A Moonlit Short Film from Sam Shapson

Enjoy, this is really interesting how modern technologies opening possibilities that were kind of science fiction not long time back ))
This short movie was done in almost full darkness , the only source of light was the moonlight.
Camera was Sony A7s set to 51,200 ISO, lenses used were Canon Cine Primes -- 24, 35, 50, 85 -- at T1.3/1.5 with Metabones Speedbooster.
System is done using best components from both Sony and Canon worlds )

It is interesting to see what would be possible with A7S II when it will come to life.

I think that instead of endless arguing which system is better it is better just to open eyes and mind to be able to receive and absorb useful information from whatever possible)))

I just hope that 1DX m II will be really big step forward compared with 1DX otherwise I will feel very sad.

 

[Maiaibing]

Also, real pros doing real work know that 18MP is perfectly fine.

No. Real Pro's know that you need the right tool for the job. And a lot of Pro's doing real work need a lot more than 18 MPIX.

 

[PureClassA]

Rumors. Rumors. And more RUMORS. Someone said (and I think it's perfectly plausible) that the 18MP figure may be a leak test for Canon. I'd be shocked out my mind if they went backwards 20% on resolution. If they want a lower MP/High ISO performer like the a7S, rest assured they aren't going to Megapixel hijack the cash cow centerpiece of the vaunted 5D line to do it.

I'd predict we see an excellent FF version of the new 24MP APS-C sensor found in the Rebel t6. That seems to make the most sense for a 5D4 given a Digic 7 chip (or 6+, or whatever) with a small step up in FPS (7-8) and a notable jump in being able to cleanly pull up shadows (like the 5DS) with a stop or two better high ISO than the 5D3

 

[Maiaibing]

18 MPIX 5DIV????? LOL!!!!

This rumor makes me happy that I have the new SONY on pre-order. ;D

However, Canon's express acknowledgment that they underestimated the market demand for more MPIX also makes me think that this is one of the worst rumors this site has ever tried to promote...

My money is still on 32 MPIX+. I'll take bets against a 18 MPIX 5DIV any day.

 

[mrsfotografie]

There’s a lot of random information out there about what Canon is going to do with it’s three five long-in-the-tooth full frame cameras, the EOS 6D, EOS 5D Mark III, EOS 5Ds, EOS 5Ds R and EOS-1D X. One of our sources wants to shed a little bit of light on things, but even admits things are very “muddy” at the moment.</p>
<p><strong>EOS 5D Mark IV</strong>

I think we can include the 5Ds and 5Ds R in this list. New sensor, old body. :

 

[zim]

CR2 - 18mp 5DIV naww, someone's havin a laugh 24 minimum, 30 max please :'(

 

[StudentOfLight]

What was each of the predecessors intended for? This is how I see the current generation:

1) 1D-X - Action photography
-Primarily need to shoot action
-Need high fps
-Need reliable AF
-Need excellent high-ISO IQ

2) 5D Mark-III - Portable, does it all (but 1D-X is better for action)
-Wide user base, many professionals, a fair number of advanced amateurs
-Occasionally need to shoot action
-Need reliable AF
-Need good IQ even in low light
-more controls and ports available for DLSR videographers

3) 6D - Portable, more suited to static subjects
-Wide user base, appeals to younger photographers and many advanced amateurs
-Do not specialize in action photography
-Need good IQ even in low light
-Prefer lighter weight

Will the replacements cater to the same users or has the digital landscape changed enough for there to be some shifts in thinking?

 

[unfocused]

We've grown accustomed to improvements in low-light sensitivity and dynamic range and new innovations like Dual Pixels. There should be no reason why sensors wouldn't improve in the "cropability" of pixels as well. Who's to say an 18mp sensor produced in 2016 wouldn't stand up better to cropping than an 18 mp sensor from five years ago?

 

[gunship01]

1DX Mark II:

30 MP
10-12 FPS
Shots useable to 1600 ISO (Pragmatic approach)
HDR
Time Lapse
Dual Digic 6
Dual CF cards

Don't need GPS, nor Video.

It can be done.

Price: $5,000

 

[justsomedude]

I hope these rumors aren't real. If so, Canon is really putting me to sleep, and Sony is looking more and more attractive.

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[PureClassA]

30MP? at 14 FPS, you have any idea how much CPU juice that will take? Dual Digic 6 won't cut that. You'll probably have Dual Digic 7 with an extra Digic 5+ or Digic 6 in there strictly for metering and AF like they have in the 1DX now (Dual 5 plus single 4) Sensor density? Think closer to 24MP. That is plenty good for a camera like this and will yield 33% greater cropping ability than current design but effectively even better with the newer pixels. And shots "usable" to 1600? If you know what you're doing the shots at 6400 on the current 1DX are very good and highly "usable". Maybe we need more clarification on what you meant there. We have Dual CF cards now. We'll have them again on a DX2 (if Not CFast2 cards which I'm not crazy about because they are still obscenely expensive). Will an HDR mode even be necessary with the 15 stops in the new sensor? (HDR will still be in firmware either way).

1DX Mark II:

30 MP
10-12 FPS
Shots useable to 1600 ISO (Pragmatic approach)
HDR
Time Lapse
Dual Digic 6
Dual CF cards

Don't need GPS, nor Video.

It can be done.

Price: $5,000

 

[StudentOfLight]

1DX Mark II:

30 MP
10-12 FPS
Shots useable to 1600 ISO (Pragmatic approach)
HDR
Time Lapse
Dual Digic 6
Dual CF cards

Don't need GPS, nor Video.

It can be done.

Price: $5,000

$5000, isn't that cheaper than the current 1D-X? I seriously doubt that 1D-X Mk-II would release at below the price of the 1D-X. Retailers would struggle to clear old stock. I don't remember Canon doing hard-launches of bodies, they always seem to do a soft-launch and gradually phase out the old model.

I think the camera will use CFast 2.0 just as is used in the C300 mk-II and the XC10.

I don't think acceptable IQ up to ISO-1600 is good enough for sports. Sportographers needed ISO-3200 - ISO-6400 using f/2.8 and f/4 zooms for events like the winter Olympics where broadcast-quality-lighting was in place. The core users need the high ISO capability of the 1D-X.

Also, a smaller pixel count will help with high-ISO IQ as well as with buffer and data transfers to news agencies.

 

[K]

Will an HDR mode even be necessary with the 15 stops in the new sensor? (HDR will still be in firmware either way).

Who rumored there would be 15 stops of DR?

 

[thepancakeman]

I stand by my point, indeed you make it very well for me.

Your 'tack sharp' results are in order of magnification, the 1D MkIV is enlarged least, the 5D MkIII second and the 5DS is enlarged over twice the size as the 5D MkIII and nearly three times the size of the 1D MkIV! Look at them all the same size, such that the subjects when shot with the same lens are the same size on screen, NOT MAGNIFICATION, and they will have the same 'tack sharp' rate.

I am not saying the 5DS is a camera you should buy, I am saying giving opinions to others based on failed methodology is silly.

P.S. If you look at downsampled 5DS files at high iso compared to 5D MkIII files the 5DS is actually a better performer. Yet another case of if you actually know what you are doing, and the best way of achieving it the Canon 5DS is performing very well.

You bring up an interesting point about photography in general.

There is an old saying: Ask 10 photographers a question and you will get 12 answers.

I am an old school, life long, newspaper shooter. I am pretty well published in a major market newspaper somewhere, every day of every week, year after year, for decades running now. All I care about is what I see on my screen. Charts, theories and perfect workflows mean nothing at the end of the day. What does my file look like. Not the guy next to me, the file on my card, the image on my screen, nothing else.

Is my workflow flawed? Probably!
Is my work flawed? No!

So I guess we have to agree to disagree. I shot with the s and handed it back. I was not in love with what I saw, for the way I work.

Here's maybe a simpler way to think about it: the 3 does not have the resolution to show the flaws that you are seeing with the S. They're there but the camera cannot resolve them, so what you see as "tack sharp" is only because the flaws are at a level the camera cannot reveal. Move up to the S and viola, you see the issues.

And if you take the output of the S and reduce it to that the of 3, they'll be identical (and least the "flaws" we're discussing will.)

 

[mkourouyan]

With technology moving forward so quickly, and almost every new video camera and action camera, and drone camera shooting in 4K, it would be a shame and an embarrassment if the 5D Mark IV didn't come with 4K. I realize that they don't want to take away customers from the Cinema line, but those cameras have other high-end features that make them desirable to professionals and filmmakers.
I do a combo of both photography and video promotional work, so I would need the 5D Mark IV to have 4K in order to future proof my work. C'mon Canon, don't let me down!

 

[scyrene]

So all the people saying 18MP would be DOA, terrible, a step backwards, etc. think the A7S is likewise? Double standards? Or would it be the use of the name "5D" on such a product that offends?

I doubt it would happen in any case.