Describe the 6D in one word...

[meli]

"Joke"

+1

 

[pakosouthpark]

FANTASTIC!

 

[Musouka]

Plastic :

 

[distant.star]

.
I'm somewhere between arrogant and feckless.

Arrogant: We're the big dog, and you'll take what we give you!

Feckless: What are we going to do about this aging 5D2 in our lineup? Let's throw this cheapie at it and see what happens.

This is not a camera for photographers. It's a camera for people.

Someone at Canon has put his career on the line to bet on the young, social media generation having a lot of discretionary income and willing to carry a DSLR around to show up their iPhone buddies.

 

[brianleighty]

Someone at Canon has put his career on the line to bet on the young, social media generation having a lot of discretionary income and willing to carry a DSLR around to show up their iPhone buddies.

Actually I think it's more the pros that have a huge collection of nice lenses yet still use their iPhone because it's so much easier to post up pictures online. This gives them a (assuming) good sensor and good enough everything else that should hopefully make this much easier.

 

[AprilForever]

Notthe7dmarkIIthereforeIregarditwithdisdain.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

the sad thing is, just like with the 5DmkIII, canon crippled this camera to protect the higher end brother. It could be better. But unlike Nikon, which made the D800 a totally different camera than the D600 so as to not have them cannibalize each other, canon's stuck low MP formula doesn't allow them to really innovate or risk making the 5DmkIII a bust. Proof yet again that the decision to stay in the low 22MP with the 5DmkIII was a huge mistake. If it had been 30-40+MP, canon would have far less to protect and the 6D would be in a much better position to challenge the D600. Maybe even surpass it.

Everything about this camera seems to be designed to protect the 5DmkIII sales. I have to hand it to Nikon. They played their cards just right by baiting canon to chase after the D700 with the MKIII and then surprising them with the D800 departure from the expected. And then sensing canon's mistake, undercut the 5DIII knowing canon can't react too aggressively or risk nuking its own 5DIII.

Even if the rumored affordable high MP body from canon makes it next year, assuming it is not a 10K 1Dsmk4, Nikon clearly had the best game plan for this generation of bodies. The question is, will this mean an end for the D700 line or will Nikon save the 5DIII killer for when canon puts up their answer to the D800. That would make the most sense as being over a year late, the high res 5D or whatever will likely have no trouble matching the D800 and likewise nikon would have no trouble going for the 5DIII.

we live in interesting times.

+1 Well said. And yes, the giant was caught napping... will he wake up though?

The more one thinks about it it becomes easier to separate the Guys that design the "glass" vs the Guys that design the "bodies".... two completely different products though made to work with each other.

One division getting it right, they other napping on the laurels of the 5D2. granted there is enough intertia for Canon to mantaining market share, however it does not take very long for people to begin to get pee'd off.

As a Canon customer, I would love for them to give us bodies that are well packaged and right priced because at the end of the day we may spend 2x-5x more money on the lenses as we will on the Body... so why piss us off by the body offerings....

The 7D was the last compelling Body they made in the non 1D series bodies. Since then we got 4-5 disappointments... repackaged bodies with 4-5 year old tech.

Whats next, slapping on some colorful LED's to make them pretty? :

Can't say I am surprised though. The lens division has continued talking about driving things forward while the body and sensor division, man, I still can't over the way that one exec responded to reporter's questions back over half a decade ago at a European camera show. So utterly full of themselves, basically laughing at Nikon and thinking they were a decade ahead in FF, basically saying they were so far ahead they had no need to do anything but milk and dribble stuff out and when someone would ask when do you plan to do so and so, say a fast FF, they were like hahaha why bother we are king! And then the report that they apparently laughed off internal (from a non DSLR division) method to possibly increase low ISO DR, they apparently sounded confused about why the other division even sent the design to them to patent and blew it off (maybe there is more to it and maybe it would not work for their DSLR, but others thought it might, who knows). And you could just see it in the way they have dribbled something as minor as AutoISO out over more than a decade and still not given a working version to less than 1 series and other petty little things while you go the sense other makers tried to enable as much as hardware could support a lot more often. Heck they even back tracked and instead of giving better cropped mode video, took it out of all the latest models, etc.

putting 1dx af, more or less, in the 5D3 was a good sign (one of the few times they did more than expected, that said, had they not, the 5D3 would've been absolutely dead in the water) and the 7D was a fairly good sign (although the af in it was still far cry from 1 series) but the video crippling and poor low iso dr and price of 5D3 seemed curious given competion

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Do you think it's something new that electronics companies (or any company for that matter) has different products at different price points in their line up? They're all cameras so there has to be some differentiation in features, quality, etc. to justify the price.

Thank you for stating what should seem obvious, but apparently isn't understood by many. Photographers are always complaining that a lesser model is a "crippled" version of a more expensive model, and a more expensive model is an "overpriced" version of a lesser model. Why don't people understand the basic principle of "You get what you pay for"?

Because it is the same price as the D600 and offers less.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Below is from 6D preview summary page from dpreview :-\ :

Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark. It's still bound to be a very good camera, of course; just perhaps not quite as good as it could be.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/6

Canon just needs to get rid of their entire marketing and exec design team, people who probably don't even know how to use a camera, and get in a small new batch and give more power to the engineers and the people who actually do useful stuff there. It's sad when a bunch of MBAs come in a mess up great tech companies.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The 5DII sold well because it was a ground breaking camera with respect to video (full frame!) as well as its photographic performance for the price. The 6D does not have the luxury of being ground breaking in any area.

I think it's a little early to say that. For the longest time I've thought, man they really should put wifi in a rebel body and make it work with Facebook and all the other social networks. I can't tell you how a big a pain it is trying to upload a photo from an slr vs my iphone where it's like two clicks. In this respect I think if they can do it properly that'll be the break away feature. That and the fact it can be remote controlled through an app. I'm sure some creative people will find ways use this with their iPads or such remotely. Could be very interesting. But again... it all depends on how good a job they did on it or if they just threw it together. I was expecting this feature in crop body rebel. But thinking about it now, I can see where they coming from. If they had it in crop body, then all those nice primes they have for their full frame wouldn't frame the same and so it would take away that value added feature. I could be wrong but I'm not aware of any other SLRs that offer this feature. If you true I think this could be a big deal. People can complain about this camera, but honestly it's not that bad. It's not a 5d Mark iii but after the price drops a couple hundred after the initial GOTTA HAVE IT group then I can see this doing well honestly. It looks like it should be at least better than the 5 mark ii sensor albeit less MP but that's fine by me. The higher ISO ranking means even though I have a Mark II, this might allow me to get a 2nd full frame that has even higher ISO capability than mine. The focusing system is at least slightly better. I think the main thing here is we heard rumors of a 7d 19 point system and got so excited about that, just like the D600 people thought it was going to be $1500. When you look at it from that perspective, it kind of sucks but if you just compare it to a 5d Mark ii then it's not that bad a camera. The one feature that makes this DOA for me is if they were idiots and removed AFMA. Hopefully they learned their lesson with the 60D but we'll see.

the gps is a nice features and not a gimmick, imo, despite some calling it a toy, it can be pretty useful

the wifi, depending upon details, might be nice at times, say you are at some competition and want to send a few images processed straight from cam to the even website, you get there first, direct while still shooting

 

[K-amps]

Whats next, slapping on some colorful LED's to make them pretty? :

No that's the rumored Canon 4D to be launched early next year:

Haha, good one! ;D ;D ;D

 

[borner]

Tragic

... as in Canon is going the way of Apple: charge more, deliver less, the faithful will pay anyway. See 5Dmk III.

Not even close to the new Nikon D600, on paper at least.

 

[brianleighty]

Tragic

... as in Canon is going the way of Apple: charge more, deliver less, the faithful will pay anyway. See 5Dmk III.

Not even close to the new Nikon D600, on paper at least.

I really don't get all these people saying the D600 kicks the 5d iii's butt. Sure it's cheaper but for most professionals price is only a small component. The main thing is can it do what they need. I've seen very little complaint from people that have the 5d iii which means Canon did a good job with it. Yes it's not cheap but if you want cheap then Nikon has you covered there. It's a free market if you think Canon's cameras suck so bad then go switch otherwise quit complaining. Oh and while we're on the topic of Apple, since when have they started charging more for less? In the ultrabook category they're very competitive with the alternatives. The main place you can complain is the iphone with it's close to 50% profit margin but if you're buying it on contract then it doesn't cost you a penny more making it a better deal. I don't know how many friends I have with Android phones that after only a year their batteries don't last more than a couple hours. Apple makes good products because they don't go cheap on parts. It seems Canon is adopting the same strategy that people are willing to pay for a quality product. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever

 

[Albi86]

Tragic

... as in Canon is going the way of Apple: charge more, deliver less, the faithful will pay anyway. See 5Dmk III.

Not even close to the new Nikon D600, on paper at least.

I really don't get all these people saying the D600 kicks the 5d iii's butt. Sure it's cheaper but for most professionals price is only a small component. The main thing is can it do what they need. I've seen very little complaint from people that have the 5d iii which means Canon did a good job with it. Yes it's not cheap but if you want cheap then Nikon has you covered there. It's a free market if you think Canon's cameras suck so bad then go switch otherwise quit complaining. Oh and while we're on the topic of Apple, since when have they started charging more for less? In the ultrabook category they're very competitive with the alternatives. The main place you can complain is the iphone with it's close to 50% profit margin but if you're buying it on contract then it doesn't cost you a penny more making it a better deal. I don't know how many friends I have with Android phones that after only a year their batteries don't last more than a couple hours. Apple makes good products because they don't go cheap on parts. It seems Canon is adopting the same strategy that people are willing to pay for a quality product. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever

I've been finding similarities between Canon and Apple for a while. Thank you for providing me a clear evidence.

 

[borner]

Tragic

... as in Canon is going the way of Apple: charge more, deliver less, the faithful will pay anyway. See 5Dmk III.

Not even close to the new Nikon D600, on paper at least.

I really don't get all these people saying the D600 kicks the 5d iii's butt. Sure it's cheaper but for most professionals price is only a small component. The main thing is can it do what they need. I've seen very little complaint from people that have the 5d iii which means Canon did a good job with it. Yes it's not cheap but if you want cheap then Nikon has you covered there. It's a free market if you think Canon's cameras suck so bad then go switch otherwise quit complaining. Oh and while we're on the topic of Apple, since when have they started charging more for less? In the ultrabook category they're very competitive with the alternatives. The main place you can complain is the iphone with it's close to 50% profit margin but if you're buying it on contract then it doesn't cost you a penny more making it a better deal. I don't know how many friends I have with Android phones that after only a year their batteries don't last more than a couple hours. Apple makes good products because they don't go cheap on parts. It seems Canon is adopting the same strategy that people are willing to pay for a quality product. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever

I've been finding similarities between Canon and Apple for a while. Thank you for providing me a clear evidence.

Wow, must've hit a real fan-boy button. Please don't blow a gasket.

I'm actually a very big Canon and Apple customer. Believe me, I've been a Canon guy for decades. Currently have 5D mk I and mk II. L lenses covering a very broad range of focal lengths as well as non-Ls and even a tilt-shift. Loads of speedlights, pocket wizards,etc. Re apple I've got several macs, iphones, even an iPad. I also have a load of PCs of various flavors. I'm no novice. I'm objective and open-minded. If anything, I've been more pro-Canon than objective. But, in the end, I have a desire to see value. I want to continue to feel I'm not being hung out to dry by my principal vendor.

I don't quibble with the quality of Canon's latest offerings, only their value propositions. Same goes for Apple. I *want* Canon stuff to (continue to) be great. I'm pulling for them. Especially given my existing investment. But, as a die-hard Canon guy, I'm left quite disappointed in their value propositions in the 5d 3 and now what I see as a sign in this 6D. I'm not complaining per-se, but I am stating that if I Canon guy like me isn't drinking, much less buying their Kool Aid, they aren't nearly in the brand leading position that they seem to believe.

That is tragic in my humble opinion. I think Nikon is poised to leap frog them - may already have for all I know. I think most people won't get all bent about minor feature capability leads hear and there, but right now, Canon's premium cost isn't justified given their specs. They appear to me at a casual blush to be around 20-30% more expensive, with not-so-obvious qualitative benefits to justify it. Hence, big drop in value (IMHO).
Example: the 6D has 11 focus points w/only the center being cross type. That's less capability than the 7D. More like the 4 year olf 5D mk II, whose focus capabilities are what most of us have been unhappy with for the last 4 years! So, I can jump up to a 5Dmk3 for premium $$, but not being a video guy, I don't feel like shelling out $3500 for an improved focusing system justifies the cost. And the 6D doesn't look like enough value to justify it either.

All things considered, given the product cycles, I'm likely to start building up a Nikon stable of gear, and I'd likely start with a D800. Why in the world would Canon want me to do that? Me, of all people.

Just plain tragic .

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Tragic

... as in Canon is going the way of Apple: charge more, deliver less, the faithful will pay anyway. See 5Dmk III.

Not even close to the new Nikon D600, on paper at least.

I really don't get all these people saying the D600 kicks the 5d iii's butt. Sure it's cheaper but for most professionals price is only a small component. The main thing is can it do what they need. I've seen very little complaint from people that have the 5d iii which means Canon did a good job with it. Yes it's not cheap but if you want cheap then Nikon has you covered there. It's a free market if you think Canon's cameras suck so bad then go switch otherwise quit complaining. Oh and while we're on the topic of Apple, since when have they started charging more for less? In the ultrabook category they're very competitive with the alternatives. The main place you can complain is the iphone with it's close to 50% profit margin but if you're buying it on contract then it doesn't cost you a penny more making it a better deal. I don't know how many friends I have with Android phones that after only a year their batteries don't last more than a couple hours. Apple makes good products because they don't go cheap on parts. It seems Canon is adopting the same strategy that people are willing to pay for a quality product. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever

I've been finding similarities between Canon and Apple for a while. Thank you for providing me a clear evidence.

OTOH they are totally different from Apple in that Apple is not afraid to cannibalize their own products and segments if they see a way to drive forward and grab more total market share, Canon absolutely worships internal segment protection even if it means giving up domination of a segment. Canon also sits and reacts and waits on everything these days (OK, not their lens division, but sensor and body division).

So they have the worst of Apple without the best.

 

[infared]

"Trolling"

As in for Trolls ;D Honestly, they released it to make everyone on the forum that already doesn't like Canon mad.

Seriously, the same fifteen people are beating the same drum on 8 different threads.

Hey dstppy...Thanks for reading my posts!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[K-amps]

................All things considered, given the product cycles, I'm likely to start building up a Nikon stable of gear, and I'd likely start with a D800. Why in the world would Canon want me to do that? Me, of all people.

Just plain tragic .

For the record, you are complaining, but it is ok to complain. Canon overpriced the 5diii and now barely 6 months after it's release, it is selling for $750 less (thats over a 20% drop in 6 months!) ... if that is not a reality check , what is?

Does this not prove it was over priced? Why don't the fanbois come out and say it instead of defending Canon or attacking it's loyal customer base? Has the D800 lost 20% of it's release price? Why not?

I know how I saved up to buy a 5diii (I am sure others did not have unlimited funds either) ... and one of the many factors that affected my decisions of buying a Canon was that I would not lose a lot on resale... well that notion has gone down the toilet. While there is some blame on the sensor design team, one does not feel hate for them... they probably did the best they could given the circumstance... what was completely avoidable was a marketing/ pricing debacle that they did with the 5diii.

 

[RS2021]

Underwhelmed.

 

[Albi86]

Tragic

... as in Canon is going the way of Apple: charge more, deliver less, the faithful will pay anyway. See 5Dmk III.

Not even close to the new Nikon D600, on paper at least.

I really don't get all these people saying the D600 kicks the 5d iii's butt. Sure it's cheaper but for most professionals price is only a small component. The main thing is can it do what they need. I've seen very little complaint from people that have the 5d iii which means Canon did a good job with it. Yes it's not cheap but if you want cheap then Nikon has you covered there. It's a free market if you think Canon's cameras suck so bad then go switch otherwise quit complaining. Oh and while we're on the topic of Apple, since when have they started charging more for less? In the ultrabook category they're very competitive with the alternatives. The main place you can complain is the iphone with it's close to 50% profit margin but if you're buying it on contract then it doesn't cost you a penny more making it a better deal. I don't know how many friends I have with Android phones that after only a year their batteries don't last more than a couple hours. Apple makes good products because they don't go cheap on parts. It seems Canon is adopting the same strategy that people are willing to pay for a quality product. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever

I've been finding similarities between Canon and Apple for a while. Thank you for providing me a clear evidence.

Wow, must've hit a real fan-boy button. Please don't blow a gasket.

I'm actually a very big Canon and Apple customer. Believe me, I've been a Canon guy for decades. Currently have 5D mk I and mk II. L lenses covering a very broad range of focal lengths as well as non-Ls and even a tilt-shift. Loads of speedlights, pocket wizards,etc. Re apple I've got several macs, iphones, even an iPad. I also have a load of PCs of various flavors. I'm no novice. I'm objective and open-minded. If anything, I've been more pro-Canon than objective. But, in the end, I have a desire to see value. I want to continue to feel I'm not being hung out to dry by my principal vendor.

I don't quibble with the quality of Canon's latest offerings, only their value propositions. Same goes for Apple. I *want* Canon stuff to (continue to) be great. I'm pulling for them. Especially given my existing investment. But, as a die-hard Canon guy, I'm left quite disappointed in their value propositions in the 5d 3 and now what I see as a sign in this 6D. I'm not complaining per-se, but I am stating that if I Canon guy like me isn't drinking, much less buying their Kool Aid, they aren't nearly in the brand leading position that they seem to believe.

That is tragic in my humble opinion. I think Nikon is poised to leap frog them - may already have for all I know. I think most people won't get all bent about minor feature capability leads hear and there, but right now, Canon's premium cost isn't justified given their specs. They appear to me at a casual blush to be around 20-30% more expensive, with not-so-obvious qualitative benefits to justify it. Hence, big drop in value (IMHO).
Example: the 6D has 11 focus points w/only the center being cross type. That's less capability than the 7D. More like the 4 year olf 5D mk II, whose focus capabilities are what most of us have been unhappy with for the last 4 years! So, I can jump up to a 5Dmk3 for premium $$, but not being a video guy, I don't feel like shelling out $3500 for an improved focusing system justifies the cost. And the 6D doesn't look like enough value to justify it either.

All things considered, given the product cycles, I'm likely to start building up a Nikon stable of gear, and I'd likely start with a D800. Why in the world would Canon want me to do that? Me, of all people.

Just plain tragic .

One basic issue that would be interesting to discuss is the concept itself of brand loyalty.

I have 3000$ to spend on camera gear: who gives me more? Nikon? Fine. Sold. That's as far as it goes for me. A camera is a tool, not an idol to worship. I can be loyal to my local grocer, someone I look in the face everyday and exchange xmas wishes with, not a mega company which only interacts with me through a help desk and has no idea and no care of who I am. How can you be loyal to something like that?

What irritates me about most of Apple and Canon users nowadays is how they swallow everything their God-like companies provide them, at whatever price, and defending them against plain evidence. See the 6D? There will be people praising it for the built-in wifi, while the crappy Nikon makes you pay 60$ for it. When you treat a multinational company with a worshipping attitude... sorry, but I think there's something wrong.

And a company is what its customers are. People complain about the iPhone 5 but they will still buy it and make it a successful product. So the iPhone 6 will be in the same line, and so on. Canon is clearly becoming that sort of company, and I don't think I want to be their customers anymore. I just don't want to be a part of that social/psychological sub-culture.