differences in color between Mark ii and Mark iii?

[Louis]

Firmware Version 1.1.2 incorporates the following improvements and fixes.


2. Fixes a phenomenon where a pink cast may develop over the image when the shutter is completely pressed with the camera’s power turned off (by the auto power off setting).


I know your camera is turned on, but you tried updating the firmware?

 

[Christian_Stella]

Good news, Canon just announced yet another firmware update only days after their last one!

Firmware Version 1.1.3 incorporates the following improvements and fixes.

1. Fixes a phenomenon where being in the proximity of the camera and an Internet-enabled device may cause the user to complain.
2. Fixes an Internet phenomenon where exposure metering may change when using the top LCD light in underground crypts or tombs. Under these circumstances, the camera will now simply play a sad violin song through the monaural speaker and shut off for 3 minutes.
3. Reduces the Nikon D800's DxO score to 62.
4. All picture profiles are fully updated and now personally approved by Ken Rockwell for their increased vividness.
5. New interactive menu screen that lets you choose why you are returning your camera before shipping it back to us.

 

[mboss13]

I think you are splitting hairs. You can't tell me your clients care about this slight change, for the better in my opinion. What I do know is your clients will thank you when your photos are more in focus which the 5d 3 will do. You can't tell me that you take pictures and print them and get perfect real to life color with no editing. That just does not happen. If you send your photos to a print shop them do tons of color changing to make the photos print as close to what is desired.

+1. Unless your client is a hair dye company and your shooting for their product box cover photo, I really doubt a client would notice, much less care.

Anyway, it looks like a slight WB change in the tint. Just add a touch more green to the WB in camera with the little graph thing and it might match up a little better.

And whoever mentioned that adobe is still in beta... +10 to you. Don't jump to conclusions before the camera is even officially supported in a released program.

what little graph thing do you have in mind? My feeling is you shouldn't have to do that on something worth $3500 but I am willing to try. As for clients, yes you are right, most wouldn't notice it, but my business isn't built on putting out portraits that I would be unhappy with. Again, with Mark ii body, non of this is an issue. As a business owner, I would have to say right now, unless there is a fix for this, the Mark ii is for me a better studio camera. There.

 

[mboss13]

Looks like the skin tone looks more accurate with the MKIII. Strange that they would improve on a newly released camera. Shocked!

Looking again, no, you are wrong. The color is off. The Mark ii shot is much more realistic look than the purple tinted Mark iii. Same with the grass. Look at the dog toy, the colors are nice and vibrant with the Mark ii, with Mark iii they look boring and faded. To each their own, but I would expect to see an improvement, to me I am seeing a step back. The lightroom fix makes it correct, but that still doesn't apologize the camera.

 

[mboss13]

Good news, Canon just announced yet another firmware update only days after their last one!

Firmware Version 1.1.3 incorporates the following improvements and fixes.

1. Fixes a phenomenon where being in the proximity of the camera and an Internet-enabled device may cause the user to complain.
2. Fixes an Internet phenomenon where exposure metering may change when using the top LCD light in underground crypts or tombs. Under these circumstances, the camera will now simply play a sad violin song through the monaural speaker and shut off for 3 minutes.
3. Reduces the Nikon D800's DxO score to 62.
4. All picture profiles are fully updated and now personally approved by Ken Rockwell for their increased vividness.
5. New interactive menu screen that lets you choose why you are returning your camera before shipping it back to us.

Thanks to all that are trying to help with this.

Snarky comments like the one here are pointless and make me think that those people don't own either of the cameras I am talking about.

Again thank you all who have had sincere and helpful answers and opinions so far.

 

[DavidRiesenberg]

I too like the colors of the 5D3 more than with the 5D2. They are closer, to my eyes, to the 5DC which I love.
Canon will not fix it because there is nothing defective. At most, this an updated color profile representation by them. They decided it is better this way and unless there will be a massive uproar from costumers they won't change it.

BTW, did you read the link posted earlier to Shane Hurlbut's blog? He shows how to calibrate the camera internally using the WB shift function. That's what Tcapp was referring to.

 

[mboss13]

I would be shocked that Canon would want blonde showing purple tint and call it an update. I will look through that article and see if we can set the internal WB. That is what I have been looking for. Still believe that it should be preset and not left to the end user to tinker with.

 

[bycostello]

i'm sure if you had 2 of the same model side by side there would be slight differences...

 

[DavidRiesenberg]

I would be shocked that Canon would want blonde showing purple tint and call it an update.

You are right but honestly I haven't seen an example such as yours before. While I haven't conducted any direct comparisons, I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary with light hair in my photos.

I will look through that article and see if we can set the internal WB. That is what I have been looking for. Still believe that it should be preset and not left to the end user to tinker with.

What Shane explains is better than a preset. It may take a little bit more time initially, but that effort will not only ensure a properly calibrated camera in itself but also between different bodies which is more important IMO.
It's a lot like AMFA. A pain in the ass, but totally worth the effort.

 

[mboss13]

I would be shocked that Canon would want blonde showing purple tint and call it an update.

You are right but honestly I haven't seen an example such as yours before. While I haven't conducted any direct comparisons, I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary with light hair in my photos.

I will look through that article and see if we can set the internal WB. That is what I have been looking for. Still believe that it should be preset and not left to the end user to tinker with.

What Shane explains is better than a preset. It may take a little bit more time initially, but that effort will not only ensure a properly calibrated camera in itself but also between different bodies which is more important IMO.
It's a lot like AMFA. A pain in the ass, but totally worth the effort.

I agree that it is a pain. I am just missing where he is acutally calibrating the camera? Isn't he adjusting the shots in LR only? Maybe I am looking at the wrong article. And you are right. Ideally I would like all our bodies producing all the same colors, when balanced to the same gray card. And they should be able to do it in the camera.

Again, the difference is visible on the back lcd panel. I don't believe it should be that way. I would like to see somebody take more comparison people portrait shots. With no post processing. I think we would all see unapealing differences. But I respect those that claim it is pretty. Just that my hair ain't purple in real life.

 

[DavidRiesenberg]

I am just missing where he is acutally calibrating the camera? I

The article is this one: http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2010/03/color-correction-put-your-best-foot-forward/

And he starts talking about the in-camera adjustments with the paragraph containing:

Some cameras come with a yellow bias, a magenta bias and or a green bias. Sometimes you get one that is perfect from the factory but from my experience that is not the case.

Which sounds like pretty much what you are experiencing.

edit: And here is a quote from him in the comments section:

The WB shift is good for simple corrections, not big swings. But that is usually all that is required to balance the camera, maybe you should send that baby back to Canon. I have sent back 4 of my 7D’s. I cannot get them to look right.

And that's simply the nature of manufacturing. Tolerances will always exist and some bodies are inevitably at the extreme ends of the tolerance margin.

 

[PhilDrinkwater]

I would be shocked that Canon would want blonde showing purple tint and call it an update. I will look through that article and see if we can set the internal WB. That is what I have been looking for. Still believe that it should be preset and not left to the end user to tinker with.

Did you read my post? Unless you're talking JPEG, it's the RAW profile - NOT the camera. A profile will produce whatever colours the user wants from whatever sensor. That's the point. White balance will not solve your problem since that will change the colour of everything - not the specific colour you're having a problem with.

Unless I fundamentally misunderstood.

"...not left to the end user to tinker with" - you understand that's the entire point of RAW development? If you don't want to tinker with anything, shoot JPEG.

Honestly, unless I misunderstood something, you're blaming the wrong thing. You'll only solve the problem by fixing the thing that IS the problem.

All that said, it looked to *me* like the overall white balance was different between the two. Are you sure you white balanced correctly with both cameras? The mk3 has a slight magenta cast to my eyes.

 

[Bosman]

So we got lucky and secured two Mark iii bodies from Amazon and received them at the end of March. At least we thought they would be a great replacement for our Mark ii bodies.

Now, after noticing a difference in color, we wanted to make sure and ran some tests. There is a definite difference in the color that we are getting. Skin tones look way too red. I am at loss, and registering here to see if anyone is experiencing this? I am highly hopeful it is something in our settings, but we color balanced with both white and gray cards and all the shots come like this.

Both images were taken exactly the same with 24-70 lens iso100 1/160 f/8.0
We have tried multiple things and they are all coming this way, on both new bodies.
Any suggestions?

If you look at the grey there is a def yellow cast on the m2.

 

[Bosman]

Here are two more shots, outdoor. Taken raw and processed in lightroom. Same white balance card was used.

Your eyes must not see it but the mark2 images are very yellow tinted. It is not that natural to have a yellow cast unless it is dusk...I think you are just used to seeing files look this way to be honest.

 

[mboss13]

Here are two more shots, outdoor. Taken raw and processed in lightroom. Same white balance card was used.

Your eyes must not see it but the mark2 images are very yellow tinted. It is not that natural to have a yellow cast unless it is dusk...I think you are just used to seeing files look this way to be honest.

I think you might be right. After reading that article, I see there is a lot more to this than I guess I paid attention to. Thanks

 

[wockawocka]

So we got lucky and secured two Mark iii bodies from Amazon and received them at the end of March. At least we thought they would be a great replacement for our Mark ii bodies.

Now, after noticing a difference in color, we wanted to make sure and ran some tests. There is a definite difference in the color that we are getting. Skin tones look way too red. I am at loss, and registering here to see if anyone is experiencing this? I am highly hopeful it is something in our settings, but we color balanced with both white and gray cards and all the shots come like this.

Both images were taken exactly the same with 24-70 lens iso100 1/160 f/8.0
We have tried multiple things and they are all coming this way, on both new bodies.
Any suggestions?

Who's to say the 5D2 ever produced files with good colour? I always found them to have a warm smear which is absent from the 5D3.

 

[mboss13]

I am just missing where he is acutally calibrating the camera? I

The article is this one: http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2010/03/color-correction-put-your-best-foot-forward/

And he starts talking about the in-camera adjustments with the paragraph containing:

Some cameras come with a yellow bias, a magenta bias and or a green bias. Sometimes you get one that is perfect from the factory but from my experience that is not the case.

Which sounds like pretty much what you are experiencing.

edit: And here is a quote from him in the comments section:

The WB shift is good for simple corrections, not big swings. But that is usually all that is required to balance the camera, maybe you should send that baby back to Canon. I have sent back 4 of my 7D’s. I cannot get them to look right.

And that's simply the nature of manufacturing. Tolerances will always exist and some bodies are inevitably at the extreme ends of the tolerance margin.

Thanks. That article is an eye opener. I will have to tinker with it and see if I can get the colors the way I like in camera. I could always send them back to Amazon for a full refund and wait until stock builds up and give different bodies a shot like the author did himself. That would take care of the light leak issue/non-issue and jeoperdizing the resale value one day I guess.

Thanks to all that see the differences with me and suggest solutions. Those people are the reason I come on this forum. The auto-bashers, those should just post in their own pointless threads.

 

[mboss13]

So we got lucky and secured two Mark iii bodies from Amazon and received them at the end of March. At least we thought they would be a great replacement for our Mark ii bodies.

Now, after noticing a difference in color, we wanted to make sure and ran some tests. There is a definite difference in the color that we are getting. Skin tones look way too red. I am at loss, and registering here to see if anyone is experiencing this? I am highly hopeful it is something in our settings, but we color balanced with both white and gray cards and all the shots come like this.

Both images were taken exactly the same with 24-70 lens iso100 1/160 f/8.0
We have tried multiple things and they are all coming this way, on both new bodies.
Any suggestions?

Who's to say the 5D2 ever produced files with good colour? I always found them to have a warm smear which is absent from the 5D3.

You may be right. Perhaps I got used to that look, but I really like it, however our Mark ii bodies are beyond their expected lifespan and we have multitude of weddings contracted for the summer. It has always sold well for us with the look out of the Mark ii, not a lot of post processing. Either way I don't think the redness in blonde hair should be happening. Looking at fixing it. LR profile already did the trick. Now looking at getting it fixed and looking good out of camera.

I do agree that the Mark ii sometimes gave away a yellowish tint. I believe all Nikon's do that. At least all the local pro photogs shooting Nikon display images that I would not dare offer to our clients, as they look yellow to me. Not sure if it is their camera or that is the look they are going for but I don't like it. Good for those that do.

 

[wockawocka]

I've found the 5D3's meter better and have better AWB in combination with the new 600EX's they're really very good indeed.

Your clients won't spot the difference or should I say improvements!

 

[BobSanderson]

mboss13 Please post a link to your business. I'm very curious about those clients of yours.