DPReview article: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV rolling shutter test

[privatebydesign]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

I registered at DPR to post in that thread. Interesting to see if the post passes the mods and how long it stays if it does.

Interesting
Can you please send us a link?

EDIT: Never mind. It was very easy to find

Interesting that they have now updated it with more images. Certainly the original comparison video that has same speed panning doesn't exhibit the differences they now claim. One of their sets of results must be incorrect. I don't know why there is such a difference in their results.

EDIT; Scratch that, the differences are that in the original video that are shooting at video shutter speeds for video use. In the new results they are shooting video at 1/1000 sec, which renders the video unusable, to see how useful the stills capture from video is in fast panning situations. Amazing the hoops you have to jump through to prove there is 'an issue'. :

Looks like they are trying to point out usefulness of framegrabs. They are suggesting, this feature might not be that much useful with this much rolling shutter (still waiting for them to publish scientific measurements). And how they are excited about using this feature on 1DX2 with 60 frames. Not sure why they didn't produce a separate page/article highlighting this exciting feature in 1DX2 and D5 reviews. They typically find something from Nikon and Sony to highlight canon deficiencies. But this time they used Canon to stick it to Canon.

If they were genuinely tying to do that, and panning so fast, it would be to track a very fast moving subject. The impact on that subject would be far more relevant, so where is it?

They are disingenuous dishonest click desperate entertainers trying to sell anything via their links. They are to the photographic community as Fox News are to people interested in news.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

They are disingenuous dishonest click desperate entertainers trying to sell anything via their links. They are to the photographic community as Fox News are to people interested in news.

Rishi Sanyal = Sean Hannity?

 

[ahsanford]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

Looks like they are trying to point out usefulness of framegrabs. They are suggesting, this feature might not be that much useful with this much rolling shutter (still waiting for them to publish scientific measurements). And how they are excited about using this feature on 1DX2 with 60 frames. Not sure why they didn't produce a separate page/article highlighting this exciting feature in 1DX2 and D5 reviews. They typically find something from Nikon and Sony to highlight canon deficiencies. But this time they used Canon to stick it to Canon.

Oh, goodness gracious, those hacks changed the entire story as Ritholtz just pointed out.

Worth reading this again (...for the first time):

https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test

Now it looks like a PSA on 4K frame-grabbing. After 4-5 lower-on-the-RSS-feed organizations have parroted it on their own sites. Damage done.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

They are disingenuous dishonest click desperate entertainers trying to sell anything via their links. They are to the photographic community as Fox News are to people interested in news.

Rishi Sanyal = Sean Hannity?

No, the Hannity of photography clearly works at DXO.

- A

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

They are disingenuous dishonest click desperate entertainers trying to sell anything via their links. They are to the photographic community as Fox News are to people interested in news.

Rishi Sanyal = Sean Hannity?

+1

I have worked with Bill O'Reilly (which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy) so Sean would be my closest guess.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

They are disingenuous dishonest click desperate entertainers trying to sell anything via their links. They are to the photographic community as Fox News are to people interested in news.

Rishi Sanyal = Sean Hannity?

No, the Hannity of photography clearly works at DXO.

- A

DXO would be O'Reilly for sure. Unable to comprehend that any word they had spoken was not an indisputable law of the universe.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

I know very little about video shooting, but isn't the difference in slope from those images almost completely a product of comparing the 5D4 shooting at 30fps and the 1DX shooting at 60fps? I would imagine you would have precisely two times the slope, unless there is more complex math in there than I'm aware of.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

[quote author=Rishi Sanyal @ DPR]
We think it's responsible journalism to temper some of our initial enthusiasm over this particular feature (frame grab) with what's likely to be a real limitation.
[/quote]

DPR can be accused of many things, but responsible journalism isn't one of them. But yes, let's temper our 'enthusiasm' for a Canon product, by all means.

However, looking back over the last couple of years, rolling shutter in 4K frame grabs doesn't seem to be a big deal at DPR...

[quote author=DPReview of Panasonic's 4K Photo mode]
The use of electronic shutter means that the results of 4K photo can inherit some odd glitches from the nature of a rolling shutter.

The 4K Photo mode isn't a panacea for capturing the moment, though. Because it stems from video, the cameras use electronic shutters. This can result in still images that show the effect of rolling shutter, with vertical elements rendered as diagonal lines if there's rapid movement. This isn't always a problem, since that electronic shutter can work so quickly that very little movement has occurred during the exposure, but ironically is most likely to appear with the kinds fast-moving action that make 30fps shooting seem so attractive. As can be seen in the lightning shot above: 4K Photo doesn't work for every shooting situation.

However, extreme cases aside, 4K Photo mode does a good job of turning high resolution video capability into a useful continuous shooting mode.
[/quote]

So with non-Canon gear, it's only a problem in "extreme cases" but in a Canon product, well, it's a "real limitation".

 

[ahsanford]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

[quote author=DPReview of Panasonic's 4K Photo mode]
The use of electronic shutter means that the results of 4K photo can inherit some odd glitches from the nature of a rolling shutter.

The 4K Photo mode isn't a panacea for capturing the moment, though. Because it stems from video, the cameras use electronic shutters. This can result in still images that show the effect of rolling shutter, with vertical elements rendered as diagonal lines if there's rapid movement. This isn't always a problem, since that electronic shutter can work so quickly that very little movement has occurred during the exposure, but ironically is most likely to appear with the kinds fast-moving action that make 30fps shooting seem so attractive. As can be seen in the lightning shot above: 4K Photo doesn't work for every shooting situation.

However, extreme cases aside, 4K Photo mode does a good job of turning high resolution video capability into a useful continuous shooting mode.

So with non-Canon gear, it's only a problem in "extreme cases" but in a Canon product, well, it's a "real limitation".
[/quote]

Neuro would be the Rachel Maddow or Chris Matthews in this analogy, if you haven't gathered that already.

- A

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

[quote author=DPReview of Panasonic's 4K Photo mode]
The use of electronic shutter means that the results of 4K photo can inherit some odd glitches from the nature of a rolling shutter.

The 4K Photo mode isn't a panacea for capturing the moment, though. Because it stems from video, the cameras use electronic shutters. This can result in still images that show the effect of rolling shutter, with vertical elements rendered as diagonal lines if there's rapid movement. This isn't always a problem, since that electronic shutter can work so quickly that very little movement has occurred during the exposure, but ironically is most likely to appear with the kinds fast-moving action that make 30fps shooting seem so attractive. As can be seen in the lightning shot above: 4K Photo doesn't work for every shooting situation.

However, extreme cases aside, 4K Photo mode does a good job of turning high resolution video capability into a useful continuous shooting mode.

So with non-Canon gear, it's only a problem in "extreme cases" but in a Canon product, well, it's a "real limitation".

Neuro would be the Rachel Maddow or Chris Matthews in this analogy, if you haven't gathered that already.

- A
[/quote]

I'd like to think of him as less partisan and more fact orientated, my choice would be John Stewart. He appears as a Canon fanboy (liberal) because he is mainly pointing out inaccuracies that come from the 'right', DPR and trolls which in this forum appear 'anti' Canon (but there are trolls everywhere). But in truth he is almost without exception just reiterating facts.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

Like a Jon Stewart without the goat farm? That works for me... ;D

 

[ahsanford]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

I'd like to think of him as less partisan and more fact orientated, my choice would be John Stewart. He appears as a Canon fanboy (liberal) because he is mainly pointing out inaccuracies that come from the 'right', DPR and trolls which in this forum appear 'anti' Canon (but there are trolls everywhere). But in truth he is almost without exception just reiterating facts.

Maaaaaaaaybe. Neuro's typically crushing anti-Canon ignorance. JS also throttles the left when they are being idiotic. I'm hard-pressed to think of a time Neuro just laid into Canon with a full-throated complaint.

- A

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

I'd like to think of him as less partisan and more fact orientated, my choice would be John Stewart. He appears as a Canon fanboy (liberal) because he is mainly pointing out inaccuracies that come from the 'right', DPR and trolls which in this forum appear 'anti' Canon (but there are trolls everywhere). But in truth he is almost without exception just reiterating facts.

Maaaaaaaaybe. Neuro's typically crushing anti-Canon ignorance. JS also throttles the left when they are being idiotic. I'm hard-pressed to think of a time Neuro just laid into Canon with a full-throated complaint.

Let's consult the wayback...

Woah, one delay and you declare vapor-ware. That's strict.

Try counting again...

EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II - delayed
EOS 1D X - delayed
EF 600mm f/4L IS II - delayed
EF 500mm f/4L IS II - delayed
EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II - delayed
EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II - delayed
EF 8-15mm f/4L Fisheye - delayed

For the 500 and 600mm supertele lenses, the delays have exceeded 1.5 years and are still ongoing!

The bottom line remains the same, whatever jargon you want to use - in the last 2-3 years, Canon has a terrible track record of getting their announced high end photo gear into the marketplace on schedule.

I was waiting on my delayed 1D X at the time...I subsequently had to wait for the 600 II as well.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

Let's consult the wayback...

(A devastating C.V. of anti-Canon fist-shaking follows. Bold letters were used. Colored font was used. Neuro's anti-Canon frenzy was not unlike a rampaging Viking who was told that parking would not be free for his longboat. So much blood.)

I'm floored. I thought I knew you.

Enjoy your A7. Don't let the door smack you on the way out. Please send your 1DX and white superteles to my location on your way out.

- A

 

[KeithBreazeal]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

Like a Jon Stewart without the goat farm? That works for me... ;D

+1 Nailed it!
If you are a serious video producer, you know that whip pans are not in the tool box. Video cameras are produced for a reason. The main reason people are shooting video with a DSLR is that it's cheaper. Understanding the limitations is the key to good results.

 

[crazyrunner33]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

Like a Jon Stewart without the goat farm? That works for me... ;D

+1 Nailed it!
If you are a serious video producer, you know that whip pans are not in the tool box. Video cameras are produced for a reason. The main reason people are shooting video with a DSLR is that it's cheaper. Understanding the limitations is the key to good results.

Yup, I've never had an issue with rolling shutter on my 5D Mark III, or when using BMCC, GH4 and C100. I shoot with the DSLR because of the form factor, and I love the full frame look on the 5D. The 5D Mark IV isn't going to be in my tool box not because of the rolling shutter, but because of the terrible crop factor in 4K. I would sell everything and use only the 5D Mark IV if they sold an XLR adapter for the hot shoe and could capture 4K over the entire sensor.

 

[asmundma]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

It well documented on the internet RS of Sony cameras. One can measure it in ms the delay between top and bottom of the frame, cause by read out speed of the sensor. It is an issue when you pan, the video looks strange. I just bought the 1dx2 which has less then 5d4. By the way I also have a7s2 and a7r2. Its bad on the Sony 6300. On a7r2 differs between FF and S35 modes. So the comments are relevant.

 

[makroman]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

Tested the Low Light Video, handheld. https://youtu.be/NLBtXOmYhiM

 

[KeithBreazeal]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

Tested the Low Light Video, handheld. https://youtu.be/NLBtXOmYhiM

Thanks makroman. Mine comes today and sooo looking forward to testing. I really like how the reds are handled. There is some hope!

 

[rolandas]

Re: 5D4 Rolling Shutter?

Tested the Low Light Video, handheld. https://youtu.be/NLBtXOmYhiM

Thanks for your efforts. Very poor quality