DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!

[Cosk]

I'm a two-system kinda guy. I have my big-fast-prime system, and I have an always-with-me camera.

What I don't understand is that there seems to be a belief that big sensors require bigger bodies and bigger lenses.

Back in the film days, I loved the Olympus Stylus Epic (aka MJII).

Here are the specs:
- Full Frame / ~20MP when loaded with Fuji Reala
- Weather Sealed
- 35mm f/2.8 lens (fantastically sharp and saturated)
- Jean-Pocket comfortable

http://www.d2gallery.com/cameras/olympusstylusepic.html

That lens was tiny, bright, and full frame.

Now, I realize that big sensors are still very expensive, we are stuck in the mentality that every camera needs a screen - which adds thickness, cost, needs power and buttons.... so we need big batteries... and now that we have buttons, we really want full manual control and touch screens.

But if anyone built a digital version of the film Stylus Epic, I'd buy it... (but probably very few others, so I'm sure it won't happen).

Canon started to... in their SD20... but alas, like your favorite shows, they discontinued it.

But my point is... I've owned a full frame camera with tiny lens that was wonderfully good.

And EVIL doesn't have to replace SLR... if it can fit in a pocket, it can live comfortably alongside our air-cube cameras.


We should rename SLR to LACS: Lens>Air Cube>Sensor

 

[mitchell3417]

In ten years no new cameras will come out with a physical mirror in them. The pros will carry 5d size bodies with ef mounts and beautiful evf's that can zoom in on demand for pinpoint focus control. The average person will only ever carry their cell phone as a camera. The rebel consumer today will have a nice mirrorless camera that may or may not come with interchangable lenses and may or may not have an evf.

That is where I see us headed. Pros will always want full size bodies, with 35mm sensors and the best IQ, AF, and DR.

 

[Rocky]

In ten years no new cameras will come out with a physical mirror in them. The pros will carry 5d size bodies with ef mounts and beautiful evf's that can zoom in on demand for pinpoint focus control. The average person will only ever carry their cell phone as a camera. The rebel consumer today will have a nice mirrorless camera that may or may not come with interchangable lenses and may or may not have an evf.

That is where I see us headed. Pros will always want full size bodies, with 35mm sensors and the best IQ, AF, and DR.

We already have it, It is Leica M9. If used properly, It can MF more accurate than DSLR, especially for shoter lense. It will MF faster than DSLR with proper skill. Its shutter lag is measured in 10's of milli second.

 

[EYEONE]

In ten years no new cameras will come out with a physical mirror in them. The pros will carry 5d size bodies with ef mounts and beautiful evf's that can zoom in on demand for pinpoint focus control. The average person will only ever carry their cell phone as a camera. The rebel consumer today will have a nice mirrorless camera that may or may not come with interchangable lenses and may or may not have an evf.

That is where I see us headed. Pros will always want full size bodies, with 35mm sensors and the best IQ, AF, and DR.

You could be right. But I'm not thrilled about the elimination of the mirror. Every one worshiped the EVF on the A77 but when I used it I was underwhelmed. It still isn't pleasant compared to a OVF. They have a long long long way to go to replace the OVF. It's just a pleasure to use, looking through the lens with your own eye. It's natural, comfortable and precise.

What I'd rather see is a very advanced transmission LCD that allows more information options to be shown line a live histogram, more option for grid lines, electronic level and many many other things (without using AF dots). Maybe even some color overlays right in the OVF. A hybrid OVF in a pro DSLR

 

[wickidwombat]

size does matter. otherwise I would have a 7d

EVF and AF will be getting better for sure and besides these two, fast primes are the reason for me to use dslr.

it seems the 650d will be my last dslr
since the competition is bigger and bigger I hope it will come with a new sensor too not only with digic5.

btw I hate the fact that if you want a better camera it must be bigger.
like: you want AF-MA? buy a 7D.. pfff.

Size matters, yes.

I use an M9 and Summicron 35 for 90% of what I shoot. I love the size and weight of the thing. I can fit it almost everywhere.

However, sometimes a camera the size of a 1D Mark IV is almost necessary. I cannot imagine shooting wild life or sports with a camera even as small as an M9, nevermind something the size of a NEX-7. The size of the camera adds to its ergonomic advantages. Having easy to access dedicated buttons for nearly every function instead of an LCD driven menu system is a must. You just don't have the space on a small camera to make it great in that regard.

I think we're going to see tons of choice when it comes to size in the future, but the big DSLR isn't going anywhere.

Cheers

too true, for me ergonomically the 5Dmk2 is about the perfect size and shape to be able to shoot continuously for extended periods.
The other thing that will take quite some time to change is peoples perception when you are shooting and being paid then people expect you have have big gear, I couldn't quite imagine rocking up to a wedding with a nex5 or PEN... might end up here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjBSIvg3pjc
I really hope to see the integrated battery grip on pro bodies disappear though in time they are just not necessary anymore and for the people that really need the extra bulk they can get the add on grip. I think it would widen the potential sales for these cameras. and while the tech of mirrorless and EVIL cameras increases dslrs will continue the mirror system of the camera may fall by the wayside and perhaps they might all start using leaf shutters (fingers crossed) but the ergonomics of the size will remain at least for working pros due to the necessity to have the controls you need accessible quickly and without cramping your hand. as for glass i am sure it will continue, tiny lenses will still have certain optical constraints and limitations, they will hit this wall sooner than people think with all this miniturisation of these camera systems.

 

[archangelrichard]

Can't we stop these childish and idiotic troll messages?

We keep getting this same BS here, constantly climing that DSLR's are dying (not!) or EVF's / EVIL is the future (the main problem being nowhere does the poster demonstrate an understanding of the future as in "the future of ... what, exactly?")

Look, folks, EVIL / EVF is NOT; I repeat NOT the same market as DSLR's. This is like saying with it's 35x zoom, the Powershot SX 40 HS is going to replace all DSLR's -- NOT the same market

STOP the childishness and quit wasting time trying to troll, enough with the fake controversy, already; grow up! Oranges do not replace apples when you are making applesauce, and this is an apples to oranges comparison, these are not the same thing, not the same market. People who light have purchased a DSLR because there was no alternative will have one, but the most popular cameras are those found on Phones so EVIL is more comoetuing with phone cameras than anything else

And, at that point, phone cameras win - you can use them to talk, text, hit the internet, AND take pictures

 

[wickidwombat]

I dont see anything troll like about it. its purely posting the opinion of a very popular photography blogger and people are discussing the view. I dont think many people agree with the expressed view though.

 

[unfocused]

I don't see anything troll like about it. its purely posting the opinion of a very popular photography blogger and people are discussing the view. I don't think many people agree with the expressed view though.

I agree. Attention-grabbing headline aside, the discussion has been entertaining, even if pretty seriously off-topic at times.

 

[funkboy]

Let's put it this way:

I'd rather have a very good EVF & very good digital MF assist than the crappy pentamirror optical viewfinder sans interchangable focus screen found on most entry-level crop cameras.

But look through the viewfinder on any modern FF DSLR (or better yet, an older pro-level MF SLR like the Canon T90) & you'll see that EVFs and associated ergonomics still have a very very long way to go before being close to the experience.

The Fuji system seems to be a nice compromise, but I haven't had the experience of actually using one yet.

 

[jbwise01]

I think there is a lot of confusion out there about Mirrorless cameras. A lot of people are assuming it has to be something small, which it doesn't have to be at all...

The NEX series cameras are pretty good cameras, but no where near as ergonomic, useful, or durable as a pro camera should be. The NEX cameras aren't targeted towards pro's neither are the M 4/3 or Nikon 1 series cams, tose cameras are small becaus ethats what soccer moms and fmaily vacationers want in a camera, and those that want great image quality and could be considering a interchangable lens camera may be swayed.
The simple fact is that if mirrorless can eventually provide the same performance as todays DSLRs there would be no reason for companies not to make them. I would imagine the abilitiy to provide customers with the best product is the goal of the camera companies, and when mirrorless provides advantages for certain product types they will begin to introduce pro versions of mirrorless. he transition wont happen overnight and DSLR's will be around for quite some time, but the change is inevitable.

 

[whatta]

btw I hate the fact that if you want a better camera it must be bigger.
like: you want AF-MA? buy a 7D.. pfff.

May I ask why you want AFMA in a contrast-based AF camera like the hybrids?

I was talkind about the current apsc line (better = bigger). I have a rebel, I will probably go for the 650d but since I do have primes I would like to have afma, which is a software feature which adds 0gr and 0mm to the body, but canon currently answers - "buy a 7d", which is a great camera and I would love the viewfinder eg but it is just too big for me. I would just like to have more options..

 

[Rocky]

It is all about personal preference. SLR and Range/View finder cameras has been coexisted since the dawn of 35mm film. Even in digital camera, they are co-existing now. I just cannot see one type will completelty taking over the other. Eah type has its own merit and down fall.

 

[thepancakeman]

Can't we stop these childish and idiotic troll messages?

I agree: archangelrichard can you please not post childish and idiotic troll messages (as indicated by the insults and name calling.)

 

[AprilForever]

Maybe mirrorless could get better, but perhaps, the SLR technology could get better too?

 

[whatta]

size does matter. otherwise I would have a 7d

EVF and AF will be getting better for sure and besides these two, fast primes are the reason for me to use dslr.

it seems the 650d will be my last dslr
since the competition is bigger and bigger I hope it will come with a new sensor too not only with digic5.

btw I hate the fact that if you want a better camera it must be bigger.
like: you want AF-MA? buy a 7D.. pfff.

Size matters, yes.

I use an M9 and Summicron 35 for 90% of what I shoot. I love the size and weight of the thing. I can fit it almost everywhere.

However, sometimes a camera the size of a 1D Mark IV is almost necessary. I cannot imagine shooting wild life or sports with a camera even as small as an M9, nevermind something the size of a NEX-7. The size of the camera adds to its ergonomic advantages. Having easy to access dedicated buttons for nearly every function instead of an LCD driven menu system is a must. You just don't have the space on a small camera to make it great in that regard.

I think we're going to see tons of choice when it comes to size in the future, but the big DSLR isn't going anywhere.

too true, for me ergonomically the 5Dmk2 is about the perfect size and shape to be able to shoot continuously for extended periods.

I really hope to see the integrated battery grip on pro bodies disappear though in time they are just not necessary anymore and for the people that really need the extra bulk they can get the add on grip. I think it would widen the potential sales for these cameras.

good to see that you have the same opinion, you do not want bigger camera if you want better
the only difference is that for you 5d is the "perfect" size..

 

[wockawocka]

Large and medium format are still with us and going strong, DSLR's are strong as ever.
To say the thread title is hogwash is very reserved of me.

Mirrorless cameras were created to fill a gap of those who wanted better compacts and interchangeable lenses.

I was in Venice this weekend and loads of people asked me to take their photos, with their camera. All were on green box or program mode. It doesn't matter how good mirrorless gets, it's still not going to be used professionally by 99% of the market. They just want cameras that take good pictures easily.

Because manufacturers serve the markets needs they won't incorporate professional features. Not like DSLR's have. I know of some pros who have a second camera in the X100, which takes great pictures...but I prefer to change the lens on my 1Ds3 as that lens affords me lots more functions when attached to my main body.

There'll come a point where DSLR's will have smaller and smaller improvements and compacts / EVIL cameras will catch up. The only limitations will be pure laws of physics.

A good example of this was 10 years ago and audio. We had Dolby Surround, DTS, the Soundblaster cards, various upgrades and now nearly every pc has onboard 5.1 audio but since then, not much has changed in the world of audio.

The same thing will happen to imaging until something groundreaking and new comes along.

 

[NormanBates]

no doubt about it: in the long run, electronics beats mechanics every time it has a small chance

I give it 10 years tops for flagship models to have no mirror in them

(also, I'd like to say: I don't know about the A77 EVF, but I shoot mostly video with my 550D, and have a loupe permanently attached to its LCD screen; that beats an OVF in absolutely every respect; but it's big; as soon as they can get the EVF to work that good, I don't want to look through an OVF ever again)

 

[whatta]

no doubt about it: in the long run, electronics beats mechanics every time it has a small chance

I give it 10 years tops for flagship models to have no mirror in them

(also, I'd like to say: I don't know about the A77 EVF, but I shoot mostly video with my 550D, and have a loupe permanently attached to its LCD screen; that beats an OVF in absolutely every respect; but it's big; as soon as they can get the EVF to work that good, I don't want to look through an OVF ever again)

"loupe"
a what? can we see the product what you use? thanks

 

[NormanBates]

I have a DIY version of this:
http://www.zacuto.com/z-finder-dslr-viewfinder

mine is a bit extreme, it makes the screen a LOT bigger than the OVF in a 5D2; yes, it's a bit too big for composition, but it lets me see all the detail the screen can provide (and I need that for focusing manually)

 

[elflord]

[quote author=AprilForever]
Maybe mirrorless could get better, but perhaps, the SLR technology could get better too?[/quote]

Both technologies will move, but mirrorless is moving much faster. The Canon 5D Mark II was announced before the first micro 4/3 cameras were released. Since then, those cameras have gone through 3 iterations of development, the Sony NEX, Nikon 1, Fuji X Pro, and Samsung NX systems were released or announced, as were the Fuji X100 and Canon's G series update. And we still don't have a 5D Mark III yet.