DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance

[AlanF]

There are very few investments that are worse than owning a Canon Supertele - a Ponzi scheme, for example. When inflation was high, economies high and Canon regularly increased prices, buying used could make a later profit. Just try selling your big white now - you will make a stonking great loss from new.

That's true if your intention is to take your super tele and stuff it in your closet for 5 years. These are not treasury bonds

When I talk about "investment" I factor in the usage during the time of ownership -- If you need a tool of some sort, the best investment in a tool that is most useful, will depreciate the least, and will remain current (or at least not need to be replaced) for the longest period of time.

You don't own a Canon supertele. I own two, and I didn't buy them as investments but to use. Depreciation wasn't a factor in buying either, it was just their usefulness for what I need.

 

[Talys]

You don't own a Canon supertele. I own two, and I didn't buy them as investments but to use. Depreciation wasn't a factor in buying either, it was just their usefulness for what I need.

It doesn't matter if it's a supertele or a camera flash.

An "investment" when it comes to a tool doesn't mean that the value increases from today to next year. It isn't real estate or a treasury bond.

An investment means that you buy something for $x today, and you get use out of it between today and the day it is no longer your asset, whether because it's sold, obsolete, destroyed. In the case of a sale, there is a recovery value.

A good investment is an asset where the value of the use (which is easy to quantify if it's a business, and harder if it's for a hobby) plus the recovery value. It should also be compared to other places where you could spend that money, if money is a constraint, just because something else might be a better investment.

So, a $12,000 lens is a great investment if you get $8,000 back upon its sale, and you get more than $4,000 of use out of it. Whether I own one or not doesn't change that

What I said still holds: If you're buying a supertele to stuff in your closet for 5 years, it's going to be a terrible investment.

 

[AlanF]

What does "more than $4,000 of use" mean? If you are pro, then you can measure your income from it and put a figure on your profits. If you are a hobbyist, like me, then how is the monetary value calculable - I have as much fun from my £700 lens as I do from my £7000? So, please explain $4000 of use because I don't know how to put a value on my use.

 

[Don Haines]

What does "more than $4,000 of use" mean? If you are pro, then you can measure your income from it and put a figure on your profits. If you are a hobbyist, like me, then how is the monetary value calculable - I have as much fun from my £700 lens as I do from my £7000? So, please explain $4000 of use because I don't know how to put a value on my use.

I am sure that I have a million dollars worth of cat pictures, so for me, it was a great investment

 

[Talys]

What does "more than $4,000 of use" mean? If you are pro, then you can measure your income from it and put a figure on your profits. If you are a hobbyist, like me, then how is the monetary value calculable - I have as much fun from my £700 lens as I do from my £7000? So, please explain $4000 of use because I don't know how to put a value on my use.

Sure.

Yes, for a business, it's just the profit you would derive from having an extra tool.

For pleasure, how else would you spend $4,000 of discretionary, hobby spending, and what kind of enjoyment would you derive from it? Is there something else that would give you more hours of pleasure for less money? Is the lens that's 10x more going to give you more enjoyment?

The definition of invest is: "To invest is to allocate money (or sometimes another resource, such as time) in the expectation of some benefit in the future."

That benefit does not need to be monetary, and most of us will internally compute (sometimes incorrectly) relative future benefits against the cost of a discretionary purchase. There are plenty of other things we invest in too, like relationships, where our expected benefits are not monetary. Circle back to my original statement - if you stuff it in your closet, there will be zero benefit, and a financial loss, hence, a poor investment.

I am sure that I have a million dollars worth of cat pictures, so for me, it was a great investment

Cat pictures are priceless

My cat runs my life.

 

[AlanF]

if you stuff it in your closet, there will be zero benefit, and a financial loss, hence, a poor investment.

Putting something unused in its original packaging and leaving it for 50 or so years, preferably a hundred, is a way of investing for you or your heirs because collectors prize original packaged collectibles. Old toys in pristine condition in their original boxes sell at auction for large sums. The same is true for cameras - see:

"Cameras such as special-edition M7s are rarely even taken out of the box, as merely opening them would cause huge depreciation."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2144700/The-1923-Leica-camera-expensive-world-snapped-1-5m-actually-works.html

 

[Don Haines]

if you stuff it in your closet, there will be zero benefit, and a financial loss, hence, a poor investment.

Putting something unused in its original packaging and leaving it for 50 or so years, preferably a hundred, is a way of investing for you or your heirs because collectors prize original packaged collectibles. Old toys in pristine condition in their original boxes sell at auction for large sums. The same is true for cameras - see:

"Cameras such as special-edition M7s are rarely even taken out of the box, as merely opening them would cause huge depreciation."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2144700/The-1923-Leica-camera-expensive-world-snapped-1-5m-actually-works.html

For some items that is true.... for others it is not.... the trick is to know which one is which. At the time, nobody thought that Superman #1 would be one of those items... and now you can hardly give away Royal Dalton china figurines....

 

[Talys]

if you stuff it in your closet, there will be zero benefit, and a financial loss, hence, a poor investment.

Putting something unused in its original packaging and leaving it for 50 or so years, preferably a hundred, is a way of investing for you or your heirs because collectors prize original packaged collectibles. Old toys in pristine condition in their original boxes sell at auction for large sums. The same is true for cameras - see:

"Cameras such as special-edition M7s are rarely even taken out of the box, as merely opening them would cause huge depreciation."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2144700/The-1923-Leica-camera-expensive-world-snapped-1-5m-actually-works.html

Original Apple computers made from Steve Job's basement are worth a lot too!

Yes, there are antiques and exceptional cases where things become worth a lot. But cameras aren't likely to be good investment that way, because you don't know what will be garage sale junk and what will be treasure. The ratio is pretty poor. You're better off spending that money on fine whiskey

But anyways, this is a camera site! Buy a lens, get out and shoot pictures of stuff and half fun.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

A good point - however do you have our taxes? I think not!

For a lot of us, your taxes are lower than our health insurance.

I knew that your Health Insurance is very expensive and has limited payouts = SCARY! Here, in the UK, a single person earning £32K pays about £7K tax and National insurance. Then we have our taxes and duties! How do you fancy $6.21 for a gallon of gas/petrol? Luckily we have a good selection of economical cars here but we pay more for them!

Two different systems, you get less cover but more choice - we get more cover but little choice.

 

[stevelee]

A good point - however do you have our taxes? I think not!

For a lot of us, your taxes are lower than our health insurance.

I knew that your Health Insurance is very expensive and has limited payouts = SCARY! Here, in the UK, a single person earning £32K pays about £7K tax and National insurance. Then we have our taxes and duties! How do you fancy $6.21 for a gallon of gas/petrol? Luckily we have a good selection of economical cars here but we pay more for them!

Two different systems, you get less cover but more choice - we get more cover but little choice.

Choice here depends pretty much on where you live and the market. I was lucky to get in with my primary physician when I did. Until I turned 65 and became covered by Medicare, I was paying over $1,000 a month for health insurance, so maybe £9K a year. Then all my taxes were on top of that. I had good coverage by American standards, but could have still wound up owing many thousands of dollars with a hospital stay and surgery.

With our distances and lack of public transportation except in a relative handful of metro areas, we need cheap petrol. We fund our highways with gasoline taxes in large part, and there is a lot of resistance to gas tax increases, so our infrastructure is falling apart in many places.

My out-of-pocket for prescription medicine right now is around $500 a month. But I can still afford the 6D2 I should be able to pick up on Friday. And if I can't afford it, interest rates are low right now, and I have plenty of credit. I admit that my choice of the STM kit lens instead of the L was partly economic, and partly the convenience of a little less weight.

 

[Orangutan]

A good point - however do you have our taxes? I think not!

For a lot of us, your taxes are lower than our health insurance.

I knew that your Health Insurance is very expensive and has limited payouts = SCARY! Here, in the UK, a single person earning £32K pays about £7K tax and National insurance.

I pay a higher percentage of my salary in income taxes and Social Security premiums. This does not include health insurance; fortunately my employer provides decent coverage with modest contribution out of my pocket.

Then we have our taxes and duties!

And minimum 2-year warranty...at least until Brexit is complete. :-\

How do you fancy $6.21 for a gallon of gas/petrol?

I don't fancy it at all, but the environmental benefits of expensive fuel are good, and you have a public mass transit system that works. I expect many of you don't need a car, or maybe just one per family, rather than one per person over the age of 16.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Guess it's time to unnotify this thread.

Jack

 

[AlanF]

You are too focused Jack. Turn off your AFMA.

 

[Ozarker]

What does "more than $4,000 of use" mean? If you are pro, then you can measure your income from it and put a figure on your profits. If you are a hobbyist, like me, then how is the monetary value calculable - I have as much fun from my £700 lens as I do from my £7000? So, please explain $4000 of use because I don't know how to put a value on my use.

You are right for the hobbyist, Alan. So true. I'm a hobbyist too.

There are people here that talk of using gear for a couple of years and then selling at a profit. Maybe so, but I think that it is very rare if it happens.

 

[Ryananthony]

What does "more than $4,000 of use" mean? If you are pro, then you can measure your income from it and put a figure on your profits. If you are a hobbyist, like me, then how is the monetary value calculable - I have as much fun from my £700 lens as I do from my £7000? So, please explain $4000 of use because I don't know how to put a value on my use.

You are right for the hobbyist, Alan. So true. I'm a hobbyist too.

There are people here that talk of using gear for a couple of years and then selling at a profit. Maybe so, but I think that it is very rare if it happens.

I live in a large city and there is tons of camera gear for sale used on craigslist. Currently 1760 items tagged canon, from batteries, rebels, 5dsr, 1dx2, small, and big whites, from $1-9000. Lots of good deals to be had. I think I have only "lost money" on used cameras, as expected. Lenses I break even when I sell them, and many times have purchased used gear to make money on. It depends on the local market. If one lives hours from a large city and their town has 50,000 people there will be no opportunity to buy/sell. I have never purchased used gear on ebay.