EOS 5D Mark IV - the crippled generalist

[Antono Refa]

Should people prefer the Canon sensors, because the bodies they are housed in generate better profits for the manufacturer?

No, its the other way around - the higher profits are an indication photographers think Canon has a superior system, e.g. they choose Canon for the lenses.

Put it another way, here are two strategies:

1. Make an excellent camera, and a "crippled" 85mm lens.

2. Make an excellent 85mm lens, and a "crippled" camera.

As you chose to spend your money on equipment made by the corporation that chose strategy #2, I'd say Canon's strategy is better than Nikon's.

This can be seen in other choices as well.

E.g. Canon doesn't have an uber 50mm lens, but customers can buy 3rd party (Sigma Art or Zeiss Otus). Nikon has an uber 50mm lens (The 58mm f/1.4G), but it's PC-E 19mm lens came out 7 years after Canon's. This isn't Canon being behind with an uber 50mm f/1.4 lens. This is Canon's strategy giving it an edge over Nikon for years.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Yes, some people would like to own a brand that crushes the competition on all fronts, say have the best cameras, best lenses, best flashes, and best prices. Also, they'd like the competitors to stay in the market, because competition is good. Also, they'd rather not live in the same neighborhood as Peter Pan and the lost boys.

The bad news is they wouldn't get the first wish on their list.

The good news is they get the other two, and will continue to get it for at least some years.

 

[solaris]

Short question:

Has someone compared if Mark IV uses the full USB 3.x speed ?
--> Test with 20 raws with Mark III / IV using EOS Utility and Stop watch

Since I assume Raws of Mark IV quite larger then Mark III calculation would be

Number of Mark III Raws x Size of Mark III raws (MB) / transfer time [seconds] = Mark III USB 2.0 Speed in MB/secs
Number of Mark IV Raws x Size of Mark IV raws (MB) / transfer time [seconds] = Mark IV USB 3.0 Speed in MB/secs

results would be appreciated !

Frank

 

[j-nord]

5DIV is kind of disappointing as a do it all stills camera. I get the priorities/compromises that Canon made (except the useless duel pixel RAW R&D).

- 5DIV has adequate m-pix IMO but somewhat crippled by the AA filter (I know the target, wedding, market probably wants the AA filter)
- fps leaves some to be desired, 8fps seems like it was low hanging fruit. But, I'd prefer 9fps (or a little more m-pix and 8fps) which seems with in reason when compared to the through put of the 5DSR.
- no tilt screen - I know a lot of the target market doesn't want or doesn't think they want a tilt screen but as a generalist camera it should have one IMO.

So what option do I have for a generalist FF camera? 5DIV is the closest Ill get this generation I guess. Low expectations for the 6DII with m-pix and fps. The 5DSR II will have at least 50m-pix if not more but again have low fps. I guess I'm out of luck If I want a modern FF body for both wildlife and landscape.

 

[John2016]

5DIV is kind of disappointing as a do it all stills camera. I get the priorities/compromises that Canon made (except the useless duel pixel RAW R&D).

- 5DIV has adequate m-pix IMO but somewhat crippled by the AA filter (I know the target, wedding, market probably wants the AA filter)
- fps leaves some to be desired, 8fps seems like it was low hanging fruit. But, I'd prefer 9fps (or a little more m-pix and 8fps) which seems with in reason when compared to the through put of the 5DSR.
- no tilt screen - I know a lot of the target market doesn't want or doesn't think they want a tilt screen but as a generalist camera it should have one IMO.

So what option do I have for a generalist FF camera? 5DIV is the closest Ill get this generation I guess. Low expectations for the 6DII with m-pix and fps. The 5DSR II will have at least 50m-pix if not more but again have low fps. I guess I'm out of luck If I want a modern FF body for both wildlife and landscape.

Well written! Canon dslrs are used on so many movies (as C and D cameras) and "the artists" here try to excuse this "disaster" as foto camera...

 

[d]

5DIV is kind of disappointing as a do it all stills camera. I get the priorities/compromises that Canon made (except the useless duel pixel RAW R&D).

- 5DIV has adequate m-pix IMO but somewhat crippled by the AA filter (I know the target, wedding, market probably wants the AA filter)
- fps leaves some to be desired, 8fps seems like it was low hanging fruit. But, I'd prefer 9fps (or a little more m-pix and 8fps) which seems with in reason when compared to the through put of the 5DSR.
- no tilt screen - I know a lot of the target market doesn't want or doesn't think they want a tilt screen but as a generalist camera it should have one IMO.

So what option do I have for a generalist FF camera? 5DIV is the closest Ill get this generation I guess. Low expectations for the 6DII with m-pix and fps. The 5DSR II will have at least 50m-pix if not more but again have low fps. I guess I'm out of luck If I want a modern FF body for both wildlife and landscape.

What a load of rubbish! Sounds like you want your "generalist" camera to specialise at everything. 5D4 "crippled" by AA filter? CRIPPLED?!? Listen to yourself!! If you can't pick a suitable general-use Canon body from the current line-up...well, I don't think the problem is at Canon's end.

 

[d]

5DIV is kind of disappointing as a do it all stills camera. I get the priorities/compromises that Canon made (except the useless duel pixel RAW R&D).

- 5DIV has adequate m-pix IMO but somewhat crippled by the AA filter (I know the target, wedding, market probably wants the AA filter)
- fps leaves some to be desired, 8fps seems like it was low hanging fruit. But, I'd prefer 9fps (or a little more m-pix and 8fps) which seems with in reason when compared to the through put of the 5DSR.
- no tilt screen - I know a lot of the target market doesn't want or doesn't think they want a tilt screen but as a generalist camera it should have one IMO.

So what option do I have for a generalist FF camera? 5DIV is the closest Ill get this generation I guess. Low expectations for the 6DII with m-pix and fps. The 5DSR II will have at least 50m-pix if not more but again have low fps. I guess I'm out of luck If I want a modern FF body for both wildlife and landscape.

Well written! Canon dslrs are used on so many movies (as C and D cameras) and "the artists" here try to excuse this "disaster" as foto camera...

More rubbish!

 

[John2016]

5DIV is kind of disappointing as a do it all stills camera. I get the priorities/compromises that Canon made (except the useless duel pixel RAW R&D).

- 5DIV has adequate m-pix IMO but somewhat crippled by the AA filter (I know the target, wedding, market probably wants the AA filter)
- fps leaves some to be desired, 8fps seems like it was low hanging fruit. But, I'd prefer 9fps (or a little more m-pix and 8fps) which seems with in reason when compared to the through put of the 5DSR.
- no tilt screen - I know a lot of the target market doesn't want or doesn't think they want a tilt screen but as a generalist camera it should have one IMO.

So what option do I have for a generalist FF camera? 5DIV is the closest Ill get this generation I guess. Low expectations for the 6DII with m-pix and fps. The 5DSR II will have at least 50m-pix if not more but again have low fps. I guess I'm out of luck If I want a modern FF body for both wildlife and landscape.

Well written! Canon dslrs are used on so many movies (as C and D cameras) and "the artists" here try to excuse this "disaster" as foto camera...

More rubbish!

Explain it please. What is rubbish?

 

[neuroanatomist]

Explain it please. What is rubbish?

Your statements are rubbish. If the 5DIV is a 'disaster', why would anyone choose to use it in a production? But by your own admission, they are. So, either you don't know what you're talking about...or you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Wow....is this thread still rolling on (trolling on?)...geeze...I thought this would die off once the 5D4 started rolling and everyone found out how good it was!

 

[John2016]

Explain it please. What is rubbish?

Your statements are rubbish. If the 5DIV is a 'disaster', why would anyone choose to use it in a production? But by your own admission, they are. So, either you don't know what you're talking about...or you don't know what you're talking about.

Because somebody who wants to use small canon dslr camera as a action cam have not so many options... Strange that people only in this forum don't get it... You probably would be happy with your 1dXMKIII and 720 interlaced modus because you give a dam about filming. In Magic Lantern forum people are screaming about 5dMKIV hack. Why? For Stills?

 

[neuroanatomist]

Because somebody who wants to use small canon dslr camera as a action cam have not so many options...

Phrased that way, sure. Then again, some people are so narrow minded they use 1"-wide scratch pads.

 

[John2016]

Because somebody who wants to use small canon dslr camera as a action cam have not so many options...

Phrased that way, sure. Then again, some people are so narrow minded they use 1"-wide scratch pads.

Yes and some people are just amateurs not able to answer constructive question.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Because somebody who wants to use small canon dslr camera as a action cam have not so many options...

Phrased that way, sure. Then again, some people are so narrow minded they use 1"-wide scratch pads.

Yes and some people are just amateurs not able to answer constructive question.

Yes and some people are just incapable of comprehending the difference between asking a constructive question and whining like a petulant child.

 

[j-nord]

5DIV is kind of disappointing as a do it all stills camera. I get the priorities/compromises that Canon made (except the useless duel pixel RAW R&D).

- 5DIV has adequate m-pix IMO but somewhat crippled by the AA filter (I know the target, wedding, market probably wants the AA filter)
- fps leaves some to be desired, 8fps seems like it was low hanging fruit. But, I'd prefer 9fps (or a little more m-pix and 8fps) which seems with in reason when compared to the through put of the 5DSR.
- no tilt screen - I know a lot of the target market doesn't want or doesn't think they want a tilt screen but as a generalist camera it should have one IMO.

So what option do I have for a generalist FF camera? 5DIV is the closest Ill get this generation I guess. Low expectations for the 6DII with m-pix and fps. The 5DSR II will have at least 50m-pix if not more but again have low fps. I guess I'm out of luck If I want a modern FF body for both wildlife and landscape.

What a load of rubbish! Sounds like you want your "generalist" camera to specialise at everything. 5D4 "crippled" by AA filter? CRIPPLED?!? Listen to yourself!! If you can't pick a suitable general-use Canon body from the current line-up...well, I don't think the problem is at Canon's end.

Not an argument. If you had to pick one camera for both wildlife and landscape what would be? Obviously, a 2 camera solution would be a 1Dxii and a 5DSR. One would expect a generalist camera to straddle the middle of these 2 options. I think the 5DIV falls a little short of straddling that middle ground. No AA filter, +2fps and 50%-100% more RAW buffer and we'd have a killer all round camera (even with out the tilt screen). It would be both better at action and better at extracting detail vs the actual 5DIV spec. AND the 2 camera solution would still be better at their specialist areas. These specs really don't seem like a stretch either, that's the painful part. Not wasting time and money on Duel Pixel RAW and 4K video could have made these specs a reality.

 

[Mikehit]

Not wasting time and money on Duel Pixel RAW...

I think they probably took the opportunity from the technology available rather than designing it for that

...and 4K video could have made these specs a reality.

HERETIC !!! Burn the witch!!

 

[jeffa4444]

The one valid point is adding to ONE FF camera in the line-up an articulating screen the obvious one being the upcoming 6D MKII.

That still leaves the 5D MKIV, 5DS, 5DSr & the 1DX MKII with fixed screens.

Ive found the 6D to be a very good "generalist" camera even though others have felt the AF is crippled and its been used for everything from landscape, travel (its two strongest niches), wildlife, air shows & portraits/glamour with very good results. Its not a good action camera but you don't get everything in life!

The 760D I have I actually very rarely use the flippy screen I normal park it like a fixed screen, mind you its rarely used compared to the 6D & 5DS.

 

[3kramd5]

5D4 "crippled" by AA filter? CRIPPLED?!? Listen to yourself!!

That's evidently become the buzz word du jour to describe complaints of any magnitude about the implementation or lack of feature on a camera.

Duel Pixel RAW

 

[j-nord]

Duel Pixel RAW

You got me

 

[rrcphoto]

5DIV is kind of disappointing as a do it all stills camera. I get the priorities/compromises that Canon made (except the useless duel pixel RAW R&D).

- 5DIV has adequate m-pix IMO but somewhat crippled by the AA filter (I know the target, wedding, market probably wants the AA filter)
- fps leaves some to be desired, 8fps seems like it was low hanging fruit. But, I'd prefer 9fps (or a little more m-pix and 8fps) which seems with in reason when compared to the through put of the 5DSR.
- no tilt screen - I know a lot of the target market doesn't want or doesn't think they want a tilt screen but as a generalist camera it should have one IMO.

So what option do I have for a generalist FF camera? 5DIV is the closest Ill get this generation I guess. Low expectations for the 6DII with m-pix and fps. The 5DSR II will have at least 50m-pix if not more but again have low fps. I guess I'm out of luck If I want a modern FF body for both wildlife and landscape.

What a load of rubbish! Sounds like you want your "generalist" camera to specialise at everything. 5D4 "crippled" by AA filter? CRIPPLED?!? Listen to yourself!! If you can't pick a suitable general-use Canon body from the current line-up...well, I don't think the problem is at Canon's end.

Not an argument. If you had to pick one camera for both wildlife and landscape what would be? Obviously, a 2 camera solution would be a 1Dxii and a 5DSR. One would expect a generalist camera to straddle the middle of these 2 options. I think the 5DIV falls a little short of straddling that middle ground. No AA filter, +2fps and 50%-100% more RAW buffer and we'd have a killer all round camera (even with out the tilt screen). It would be both better at action and better at extracting detail vs the actual 5DIV spec. AND the 2 camera solution would still be better at their specialist areas. These specs really don't seem like a stretch either, that's the painful part. Not wasting time and money on Duel Pixel RAW and 4K video could have made these specs a reality.

if you can't figure out how to use deconvolution based sharpening to reduce the AA effect when necessary, then you probably don't need a 5D Mark IV.

the AA "loss of sharpness" is so overblown it's pathetic.

 

[j-nord]

5DIV is kind of disappointing as a do it all stills camera. I get the priorities/compromises that Canon made (except the useless duel pixel RAW R&D).

- 5DIV has adequate m-pix IMO but somewhat crippled by the AA filter (I know the target, wedding, market probably wants the AA filter)
- fps leaves some to be desired, 8fps seems like it was low hanging fruit. But, I'd prefer 9fps (or a little more m-pix and 8fps) which seems with in reason when compared to the through put of the 5DSR.
- no tilt screen - I know a lot of the target market doesn't want or doesn't think they want a tilt screen but as a generalist camera it should have one IMO.

So what option do I have for a generalist FF camera? 5DIV is the closest Ill get this generation I guess. Low expectations for the 6DII with m-pix and fps. The 5DSR II will have at least 50m-pix if not more but again have low fps. I guess I'm out of luck If I want a modern FF body for both wildlife and landscape.

What a load of rubbish! Sounds like you want your "generalist" camera to specialise at everything. 5D4 "crippled" by AA filter? CRIPPLED?!? Listen to yourself!! If you can't pick a suitable general-use Canon body from the current line-up...well, I don't think the problem is at Canon's end.

Not an argument. If you had to pick one camera for both wildlife and landscape what would be? Obviously, a 2 camera solution would be a 1Dxii and a 5DSR. One would expect a generalist camera to straddle the middle of these 2 options. I think the 5DIV falls a little short of straddling that middle ground. No AA filter, +2fps and 50%-100% more RAW buffer and we'd have a killer all round camera (even with out the tilt screen). It would be both better at action and better at extracting detail vs the actual 5DIV spec. AND the 2 camera solution would still be better at their specialist areas. These specs really don't seem like a stretch either, that's the painful part. Not wasting time and money on Duel Pixel RAW and 4K video could have made these specs a reality.

if you can't figure out how to use deconvolution based sharpening to reduce the AA effect when necessary, then you probably don't need a 5D Mark IV.

the AA "loss of sharpness" is so overblown it's pathetic.

Attacking one small part of the point and ignoring the rest is, well...