EOS 5D Mark IV - the crippled generalist

Dear All,

Like so many others I feel alienated from Canon by their decisions to cripple each of the cameras in their lineup in one way or the other.

After so many years I was hoping Canon would for once address the generalists among photographers instead of offering bits and pieces here and there throughout their line-up. I wish I could buy a universal camera with multiple identical backups as in the old days of the EOS1n or EOS3. But neither the 5D IV nor the 1Dx II nor the 5DSr nor the 80D fullfill the modern needs of generalist photographers.

Speaking of myself, I photograph wildlife with super-teles, I am into fine-art landscapes and for people-reportages I do wide-angle from the hip and around corners. In all these areas I have come to absolutely depend on a flippy tilt screen that is part of the camera. It just gives you all the freedom to choose the best possible angle of view and some of my best compositions I only found because I employed the flippy-tilt as my third eye. I find it hard to accept that the old Rolleiflex of my dad can do things Canons new generalist fails at. I am not overly lazy, immobile or bashful. I do lie down on the ground a lot in public and nature. However there are many situations when you either physically cannot move your body in the right spot or when doing so is impractical or even dangerous. The 70D/80D does the job, the 5D IV won't

These are my personal must-haves:

-Fullframe
-reasonable speed and buffer
-articulating screen
-highest possible resolution, minimum 30 Megapixel
-weather sealing


list of shortcomings in the 5D IV:

-no articulating screen
-inclusion of AA-filter (Why not bringing a EOS 5D IVr to the market as alternative?)
-buffer is rather limited (why no XQD)
-only offering uncompressed MPEG makes filming 4k impractical to most of us
-no accessory EVF
-no truly silent mode

For the mean-time, I consider selling my 16-35 L IS and adding a Pentax K1 with a 15-30/2.8 to my equipment for reportage and landscape purposes. What I like about Pentax is the fact that allthough they do not have access to all the finest technologies like dual pixel af or even a fast regular autofocus, at least they try to give you everything they can in a single package. But ironically I prefer Canon's flippy-tilt concept over Pentax'.

So why can Canon not try to do their best? How arrogant must the company's managers be to think that they can keep crippling their cameras without loosing market-shares? I honestly mourn. But more so I am angry: Photographing with Canon nowadays feels like sitting in an Opera with a star cast but with those highly acclaimed singers not giving a S___ about the arts or the audience on that very evening. Bad performance. Guess I stick to my old recordings or buy a Pentax instead. Not a big voice but giving their best whenever they go on stage.

I foresee: If the 6D II will come out with a flippy-tilt screen, it will not have more than 5fps.
Deal-breaker? No. But then it will need to have 30Megapixel and no AA-filter. Then to the generalist who can sacrifice fps it could be a compromise that might be worth owning for a few years. The 5D IV definately isn't.

Canon's Earnesty Officially sucks.
 
Jun 20, 2013
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whaaaaaa?

you were never getting an articulating screen on a 5D series.

You'd lose the AF joystick to fit it all in.

compare the back of a 80D to a 7D Mark II which is the same relative timeline, form factor and ergonomics and see how things shifted and got lost between those two cameras.

Now if the 6D Mark II does't have an articulating screen .. THAT would be worthy of a TL;DR post.
 
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rrcphoto said:
You'd lose the AF joystick to fit it all in.

Thanks for reading ;) Just move the joystick to where the AF-On is now or into its immediate vicinity. Who needs three thumb-buttons in that area anyway? If you had only two and could select among three functions independently (FE/AF-Area selection/AF-on) I think that would do for most everyone. I for example have never used FE in my life.

Cheers
 
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Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
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Nov 11, 2012
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fussy III said:
What I like about Pentax is the fact that allthough they do not have access to all the finest technologies like dual pixel....

But they have pixel shift. Is that not a fine technology ?

Looking at your lists surely you could say exactly the same thing about Pentax - 'crippled' video, AF, speed etc.
 
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fussy III said:
Dear All,

Like so many others I feel alienated from Canon by their decisions to cripple each of the cameras in their lineup in one way or the other.

These are my personal must-haves:

-Fullframe
-reasonable speed and buffer
-articulating screen
-highest possible resolution, minimum 30 Megapixel
-weather sealing


list of shortcomings in the 5D IV:

-no articulating screen
-inclusion of AA-filter (Why not bringing a EOS 5D IVr to the market as alternative?)
-buffer is rather limited (why no XQD)
-only offering uncompressed MPEG makes filming 4k impractical to most of us
-no accessory EVF
-no truly silent mode

Canon's Earnesty Officially sucks.

I think you are not looking for a generalist camera or the 5D4 would fit that role perfectly. What you need is a specific camera to your niche....yes I did say niche. On your personal must haves it's only the articulating screen...come on...get real. The silent mode IS the most quiet of all DSLR's in production....so for a second time....get real.
Canon doesn't suck for most generalist photographers....just a few who think that Canon should make a custom camera built for their obscure needs.
 
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Sporgon said:
fussy III said:
What I like about Pentax is the fact that allthough they do not have access to all the finest technologies like dual pixel....

Looking at your lists surely you could say exactly the same thing about Pentax - 'crippled' video, AF, speed etc.

I see a principal difference between not having a capacity and having it but holding back on behalf of marketing strategies. Further I was focusing on the photographical aspects rather than on video. And here Pentax is clearly doing their best whereas Canon's efforts are incoherent, strategical, and niggard. And I agree Pentax is being innovative with their Pixel-Shift. It is one of these evolutionary aspects that they probably will wisely incorporate into any future highend camera rather than crippling it away here and there.

Let me twist the discussion a bit:

What does everone else think what a generalist semiprofessional or professional camera made by Canon should have looked like in 2016?
 
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fussy III said:
smorgo said:
Of the two, I'm much happier to have the wireless capability.

That is my point: Why is it always an either or with Canon? Why like stupid calfs have we accepted that way of thinking? Canon has trained us to do so. Meanwhile our creativity is suffering.
If you think, gear is stopping from you making great photos, check this list. There is a one made from 1200d and Rebel with kit lenses.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/5480094425/take-a-peek-at-some-of-the-contenders-for-wildlife-photographer-of-the-year-2016
 
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BeenThere

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Sep 4, 2012
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fussy III said:
smorgo said:
Of the two, I'm much happier to have the wireless capability.

That is my point: Why is it always an either or with Canon? Why like stupid calfs have we accepted that way of thinking? Canon has trained us to do so. Meanwhile our creativity is suffering.
You want a Swiss Army knife, not a camera for the masses.
 
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Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
fussy III said:
rrcphoto said:
You'd lose the AF joystick to fit it all in.

Thanks for reading ;) Just move the joystick to where the AF-On is now or into its immediate vicinity. Who needs three thumb-buttons in that area anyway? If you had only two and could select among three functions independently (FE/AF-Area selection/AF-on) I think that would do for most everyone. I for example have never used FE in my life.

Cheers

And you'd still have a ton more buttons to reallocate. Again compare the 80d to the 7d mark ii back.

There would have to be a higher shift of ergonomics to accommodate an articulating screen, and that doesn't happen in the same camera line with canon. The only notable exception was when they moved the 50d to 60d downlevel. (To accommodate that screen) and the howls were everywhere.

That's not crippling .. sorry.


The missing evf-dc1 functionality is indeed annoying.
 
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crashpc said:
ritholtz: Yes, you can do stuff with inferior tools. That is not really the point. Canon yould stop selling new models for 20 years, and people would still move on. I don´t even NEED a camera if somebody told me to decide between two hobbies. But we´re demanding creatures, striving for best, right?
I really don't know man. But looking at those pictures, spending on new camera doesn't look like a great idea if one wants to make great pictures and be creative. This is the list of gear used to make those pics. Someone posted on dpr.

2x Canon 5D Mark III 2012
Nikon 3DS 2009
Canon 500D 2009
Nikon D800 2012
Canon 5D 2005
Nikon D300 2007
Canon 5DS R 2015
Canon 1200D 2014
Nikon D90 2008
 
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rrcphoto said:
There would have to be a higher shift of ergonomics to accommodate an articulating screen, and that doesn't happen in the same camera line with canon. The only notable exception was when they moved the 50d to 60d downlevel. (To accommodate that screen) and the howls were everywhere.

I saw no reason to howl then because Canon had introduced the 7D before changing the ergonomics of the 50D.
Ever after I was working with both 7D and 60D but found the 60D to be the better creative tool. It even had a more reliable AF so I ended up selling the 7D. Now I am left hoping for a 6D that I can operate like the 80D but that will work on a professional level AF-, fps- and megapixel-wise. Unrealistic considering Canon's policies.
 
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ritholtz said:
crashpc said:
ritholtz: Yes, you can do stuff with inferior tools. That is not really the point. Canon yould stop selling new models for 20 years, and people would still move on. I don´t even NEED a camera if somebody told me to decide between two hobbies. But we´re demanding creatures, striving for best, right?
I really don't know man. But looking at those pictures, spending on new camera doesn't look like a great idea if one wants to make great pictures and be creative. This is the list of gear used to make those pics. Someone posted on dpr.

2x Canon 5D Mark III 2012
Nikon 3DS 2009
Canon 500D 2009
Nikon D800 2012
Canon 5D 2005
Nikon D300 2007
Canon 5DS R 2015
Canon 1200D 2014
Nikon D90 2008

These shots could be done with even older bodies, really. As i suggested, it doesn´t say anything about camera manufacturers, today, about progress and innovation. And also about needs of people growing in time. We are here in spite of generations behind us didn´t have cars, emergency, processed food etc. Should we have enaugh today and forget future?
 
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GMCPhotographics said:
fussy III said:
Dear All,

Like so many others I feel alienated from Canon by their decisions to cripple each of the cameras in their lineup in one way or the other.

These are my personal must-haves:

-Fullframe
-reasonable speed and buffer
-articulating screen
-highest possible resolution, minimum 30 Megapixel
-weather sealing


list of shortcomings in the 5D IV:

-no articulating screen
-inclusion of AA-filter (Why not bringing a EOS 5D IVr to the market as alternative?)
-buffer is rather limited (why no XQD)
-only offering uncompressed MPEG makes filming 4k impractical to most of us
-no accessory EVF
-no truly silent mode

Canon's Earnesty Officially sucks.

I think you are not looking for a generalist camera or the 5D4 would fit that role perfectly. What you need is a specific camera to your niche....yes I did say niche. On your personal must haves it's only the articulating screen...come on...get real. The silent mode IS the most quiet of all DSLR's in production....so for a second time....get real.
Canon doesn't suck for most generalist photographers....just a few who think that Canon should make a custom camera built for their obscure needs.

I had typed out a detailed reply, but actually it boils down, once again, to - 'they didn't build the precise camera *I* want, how dare they!' ::)
 
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Oh, and more generally: every choice in life is a compromise. If you find a camera that meets every single one of your personal needs, you are very lucky indeed. Point to a single device (a camera or anything else) that does EVERYTHING without compromise - well there isn't one.

The original list, incidentally, is hardly generalist. 30MP minimum, articulating screen, weather sealing, full frame - these are all nice, and all very much in the minority, both in terms of models offered and units sold. Accept it and move on.
 
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