EOS 5D Mark IV - the crippled generalist

[fussy III]

Canon is very good at crippling differentiating the camera models so you have a reason to buy more cameras.

If they made the 5dsr with a hardware binning lower res mode and a high speed crop mode then you wouldn't need anything else.

Right on. And I'd have bought one or two of them if it had had this option! And I'd buy two or three of them if they had a swivel. But instead I am complaining publicly about Canon and thinking of including an A7RII or a Pentax K1 with my 5dII, 70D and A7s, thereby creating an inhomogenous arsenal that seems so typical of serious modern day Canon-photographers!

If Canon moved on to the best of its abilities with each step, they would win trust. And in that case we'd still update with every second generation instead of getting frustrated with their reasonings and sticking to our older trusted cameras. Even if we are stupid and dependant, we do not wish to get the feeling of being treated as such.

 

[dak723]

Canon offers cameras with flippy screens, if that is your number one requirement. They produce professional results. If Canon doesn't offer the VERY specific requirements you want, then get a camera from a company that does. Complaining on an internet forum does nothing. A child complains. An adult does what is necessary to meet their needs as best as possible.

 

[fussy III]

Of the two, I'm much happier to have the wireless capability.

That is my point: Why is it always an either or with Canon? Why like stupid calfs have we accepted that way of thinking? Canon has trained us to do so. Meanwhile our creativity is suffering.

If you think, gear is stopping from you making great photos, check this list. There is a one made from 1200d and Rebel with kit lenses.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/5480094425/take-a-peek-at-some-of-the-contenders-for-wildlife-photographer-of-the-year-2016

Do not worry. I will continue taking great photos. However I would have liked to get better technology paired with my genious.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

You'd lose the AF joystick to fit it all in.

Thanks for reading Just move the joystick to where the AF-On is now or into its immediate vicinity. Who needs three thumb-buttons in that area anyway? If you had only two and could select among three functions independently (FE/AF-Area selection/AF-on) I think that would do for most everyone. I for example have never used FE in my life.

Cheers

Some of us prefer back button focus over half shutter. Move that and that is crippling, taking a useful feature away in favor of adding a tilt screen, which, many of us don't want as it could make the body less rugged and less weather resistant.

More to the point, a generalist camera is not one that is class leading in everything. A generalist camera is one that does all things good, leaving the excellence for more niche specific bodies. You want high res, get a 5ds, you want fps, get the 1Dx or the 7d, you want flippy screen then get a non weather sealed body...your not getting all that in one without sacrificing something

 

[fussy III]

A child complains. An adult does what is necessary to meet their needs as best as possible.

Not only children complain. At times, literate perfectionists may feel inclined to do the same, I am afraid.
But thanks to your instructive ways of showing empathy, I will probably make it through another 20 years of Canon as best as possible.

 

[fussy III]

You'd lose the AF joystick to fit it all in.

Thanks for reading Just move the joystick to where the AF-On is now or into its immediate vicinity. Who needs three thumb-buttons in that area anyway? If you had only two and could select among three functions independently (FE/AF-Area selection/AF-on) I think that would do for most everyone. I for example have never used FE in my life.

Cheers

Some of us prefer back button focus over half shutter. Move that and that is crippling, taking a useful feature away in favor of adding a tilt screen, which, many of us don't want as it could make the body less rugged and less weather resistant.

More to the point, a generalist camera is not one that is class leading in everything. A generalist camera is one that does all things good, leaving the excellence for more niche specific bodies. You want high res, get a 5ds, you want fps, get the 1Dx or the 7d, you want flippy screen then get a non weather sealed body...your not getting all that in one without sacrificing something

I already addressed this. I am using the AF-On button since the mid 90ies, only then it was appr. 7,5 mm further to the right. I'd accept a relocation if only this allowed for the inclusion of a swivel.

How about Canon and their stupid "Canon can do it!" motto? When was the last time we said "wow" and were truly baffled by the introduction of a new Canon DSLR? When did we last say: "Wow, they did it, unpredicted, great and usefull"? Taking out 9 Megapixel-photos from a video is nice but I am talking about larger concepts (with optical viewfinders).

 

[dtgphoto]

I can't believe that fussy iii is moaning about the spec. I have been using the 70d and the articulating screen is useful but it comes out at a weird angle and tbh it is easier to use wifi and that doubles as a remote too. Saves money on remote and reaches further than wires.

Personally I can't wait for mine.

Regards


Generalist photographer from UK

 

[Maui5150]

Go to Nikon.

Buh-bye.

I am disappointed Canon has not made a camera yet that makes me coffee

 

[fussy III]

I can't believe that fussy iii is moaning about the spec. I have been using the 70d and the articulating screen is useful but it comes out at a weird angle and tbh it is easier to use wifi and that doubles as a remote too. Saves money on remote and reaches further than wires.

Personally I can't wait for mine.

Regards


Generalist photographer from UK

Remote control doesn't interest me in the first place. That can be done with any kind of accessory and that is ok for me. But incorporation of the swivel into the camera to me is everything - no delays, no storing away, less clumsy, less extra weight, no loose accessory parts that can drop to the ground or into the water, easier motioning.

 

[fussy III]

Go to Nikon.

Buh-bye.

I am disappointed Canon has not made a camera yet that makes me coffee

By the time Canon is making the machines that suit your needs, I will hopefully have switched.

 

[YuengLinger]

Dancing with joy not tilty screen toy.

80D?

 

[dtgphoto]

I can't believe that fussy iii is moaning about the spec. I have been using the 70d and the articulating screen is useful but it comes out at a weird angle and tbh it is easier to use wifi and that doubles as a remote too. Saves money on remote and reaches further than wires.

Personally I can't wait for mine.

Regards


Generalist photographer from UK

Remote control doesn't interest me in the first place. That can be done with any kind of accessory and that is ok for me. But incorporation of the swivel into the camera to me is everything - no delays, no storing away, less clumsy, less extra weight, no loose accessory parts that can drop to the ground or into the water, easier motioning.

Do you not have your phone with you anyway ?

No need for extra accessories

Sounds to me like your just doing an impression of a dog barking at passing cars

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

You'd lose the AF joystick to fit it all in.

Thanks for reading Just move the joystick to where the AF-On is now or into its immediate vicinity. Who needs three thumb-buttons in that area anyway? If you had only two and could select among three functions independently (FE/AF-Area selection/AF-on) I think that would do for most everyone. I for example have never used FE in my life.

Cheers

Some of us prefer back button focus over half shutter. Move that and that is crippling, taking a useful feature away in favor of adding a tilt screen, which, many of us don't want as it could make the body less rugged and less weather resistant.

More to the point, a generalist camera is not one that is class leading in everything. A generalist camera is one that does all things good, leaving the excellence for more niche specific bodies. You want high res, get a 5ds, you want fps, get the 1Dx or the 7d, you want flippy screen then get a non weather sealed body...your not getting all that in one without sacrificing something

I already addressed this. I am using the AF-On button since the mid 90ies, only then it was appr. 7,5 mm further to the right. I'd accept a relocation if only this allowed for the inclusion of a swivel.

How about Canon and their stupid "Canon can do it!" motto? When was the last time we said "wow" and were truly baffled by the introduction of a new Canon DSLR? When did we last say: "Wow, they did it, unpredicted, great and usefull"? Taking out 9 Megapixel-photos from a video is nice but I am talking about larger concepts (with optical viewfinders).

Larger concepts? You're talking about a flippy screeen! So, instead of having nice ergonomics and bodies that match button placement, you want the tilt screen and to hell with everything else? Lol, realize that the flip screen is not something the majority wants, has asked for or needs. Like others have said, no manufacturer is going to make a camera specifically for you. I'm pretty sure if pros and a matures were all begging for a flip screen it would be there. But, not all are asking for that, in fact, many are very vocal in saying we don't want a gimmick feature that compromises the ruggedness of the build.

 

[unfocused]

Speaking of myself...

You can't always get what you want.

 

[fussy III]

But, not all are asking for that, in fact, many are very vocal in saying we don't want a gimmick feature that compromises the ruggedness of the build.

The Swivel a Gimmick? I hardly ever meet anyone photographing seriously and ably who has ever used it saying that they don't want it. At least not in nature or reportage photography. It may be different in the studio were you work with Hasselblad in Capture on a large screen.

 

[fussy III]

I can't believe that fussy iii is moaning about the spec. I have been using the 70d and the articulating screen is useful but it comes out at a weird angle and tbh it is easier to use wifi and that doubles as a remote too. Saves money on remote and reaches further than wires.

Personally I can't wait for mine.

Regards


Generalist photographer from UK

Remote control doesn't interest me in the first place. That can be done with any kind of accessory and that is ok for me. But incorporation of the swivel into the camera to me is everything - no delays, no storing away, less clumsy, less extra weight, no loose accessory parts that can drop to the ground or into the water, easier motioning.

Do you not have your phone with you anyway ?

No need for extra accessories

Sounds to me like your just doing an impression of a dog barking at passing cars

Seems to me you never worked on reportage photography with stretched arm and only one hand at the camera and the other holding on to a rock, an iron bar or the likes. Seems you don't see any need to avoid uncertainties like battery-failure or a failing connections. Seems like you were never in a hurry getting things attached to the camera or out of the way when finding a new and more important subject. I WANT THE SWIVEL INTEGRATED - and I have good reasons for that. You may not share them. I wish that car was passing. But it is standing, stubborn and motionless, it seems.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

If Canon made a body that had everything the masses wished for, it would be a much larger body to incorporate all the goodies. Each button needs an ergonomic spacing on the outside. Inside the body is a massive engineering feat to connect everything and still be reliable and weather sealed. Every component takes up valuable space and eats battery power. Heat dissipation is another concern with design layout. One consideration most people forget is that the camera needs to be serviceable and is a major part of the engineering.
I think it would be interesting for Canon to produce a video that shows all the teams converging on the CAD operator and throwing all the standard and wish list items into one design, then show the workflow to a final product.
I'm still amazed by my SL-1. How'd they get all that stuff into that tiny body?
And on a final spew, if Canon made a camera with everything we all wanted, there would be two bodies to choose from- a $400 Rebel and a $12,000 "Mother of God".

 

[fussy III]

If Canon made a body that had everything the masses wished for, it would be a much larger body to incorporate all the goodies.

Bigger body? So be it, as long as they eventually start treating the swivel as a professional need in the fullframe line-up. Those 50% of photographers who do not wish do without any longer should be addressed somehow. Especially as the 70/80D have the nicest swivels on the market.

Why not a concept with modular hardware parts? Why not the option to move some of the functions onto an easily navigated touch-display as in the new Hassi? How many of the seven buttoms on the left side does any one photographer really access on a regular basis anyway? Why not making them assignable to a chosen task? Why not moving them below a decent swivel on a camera with an integrated battery-grip for either two LP-E6 or a new type of larger battery?

Come on, this can be done with a bit of creativity, courage and positive attitude.

 

[LDS]

Seems like you were never in a hurry getting things attached to the camera or out of the way when finding a new and more important subject. I WANT THE SWIVEL INTEGRATED - and I have good reasons for that. You may not share them. I wish that car was passing. But it is standing, stubborn and motionless, it seems.

And you have time to play with the swivel? Something that can also get in the way and break when you're in a hurry? Most reportages need sturdy cameras with nothing that can break easily, make the camera less sturdy (and sealed) and get in the way. Usually you have no time to set the LCD screen position, you get the camera and shoot. After all, there will be a reason why so many 5D and 1D are used in the field by reporters, instead of cameras with swivels screen. Guess Canon talks a lot with its main and more important users, to understand what they need and what they not. People who usually spend time shooting, and not complaining on forums.

IMHO were swivels screen are most useful - besides amateurish selfies - is when you can carefully position the camera in some uncomfortable position, and in my experience tethering - wired or wireless - is more useful in such situations. Sometimes, even much safer...

 

[geekpower]

grunching, but if you want a camera that does it all, it's either going to be prohibitively large and expensive, or disappointingly mediocre. those who can afford the former can also afford multiple specialist cameras, and those who can't would usually prefer to ditch features they don't need in exchange for better quality in the ones they do.