EOS 5D Mark IV - the crippled generalist

[fentiger]

1DX11 is pretty much a camera that can do it all from landscape to wildlife and action

 

[Mikehit]

I haven't waded through all 16 pages of this, but re: the first poster's desire for a deeper buffer - in my testing with a Lexar Professional 1066x UDMA 7 CF card I was able to get 32 RAW images before it began to slow down.

So here's my question: how many of you actually need a deeper RAW buffer than that...and what for?

For my own style of shooting that may the only time I push the buffer that deep in the years ahead that I own the camera.

P.S. Starting today I will be releasing a series where I break down the sensor performance in detail. Today's episode covers dynamic range, episode 2 is high ISO performance, and the third episode looks at resolution.

That indeed would make the EOS 5D IV seem suited as a generalist with regards to buffer. One down ...

So explain why a buffer of 35 images is not enough.

 

[fussy III]

And this dilemma between two cameras lost in the action is the result of a philosophy of crippling on Canon's part. The more I think about it, the more justified I find my usage of the word. Price is an entirely different story.

Product differentiation. 'Crippled' is your subjective interpretation of a business reality.

The subjective interpretations of customers play an objective role in business. Moral and trust do play a role in business. The way you are looking at "business reality" is just another interpretation and it is solely based on the sales statistics of the past.

 

[fussy III]

I haven't waded through all 16 pages of this, but re: the first poster's desire for a deeper buffer - in my testing with a Lexar Professional 1066x UDMA 7 CF card I was able to get 32 RAW images before it began to slow down.

So here's my question: how many of you actually need a deeper RAW buffer than that...and what for?

For my own style of shooting that may the only time I push the buffer that deep in the years ahead that I own the camera.

P.S. Starting today I will be releasing a series where I break down the sensor performance in detail. Today's episode covers dynamic range, episode 2 is high ISO performance, and the third episode looks at resolution.

That indeed would make the EOS 5D IV seem suited as a generalist with regards to buffer. One down ...

So explain why a buffer of 35 images is not enough.

You misunderstood my post. I actually said something nice about the camera

 

[Mikehit]

The subjective interpretations of customers play an objective role in business. Moral and trust do play a role in business. The way you are looking at "business reality" is just another interpretation and it is solely based on the sales statistics of the past.

Customer interpretation does play a part. And the fact Canon are number one suggests that the general customer does not think the same as you.
I am not using sales to justify Canon continue as they are, nor did I buy from Canon because of their sales, but I am using sales to illustrate that Canon know what they are doing. If they were so incompetent at designing cameras they would not be number one. It is a classic case 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'.

In this case, the pudding you want has all sorts of exotic bits an pieces added at (a) no extra cost or (b) increase the price to a point its sales plummet. Neither make good business sense.

 

[d]

...

If he/she is at one moment filming with the 6DII (as rumored) but in the next wishes to get high-res action shots, he/she will feel inclined to switch to a 5DIV for that purpose. If he/she wants to use the same lens for both purposes, that will not only mean that he/she will have to accomodate ...self with a different button-layout when switching but also will have to unmount and remount the lens.
...

In what world is 25MP (rumoured 6DII) not high-res, but 30 MP (5DIV) is? Would you actually bother to switch cameras in the middle of shooting for this?

 

[fussy III]

...

If he/she is at one moment filming with the 6DII (as rumored) but in the next wishes to get high-res action shots, he/she will feel inclined to switch to a 5DIV for that purpose. If he/she wants to use the same lens for both purposes, that will not only mean that he/she will have to accomodate ...self with a different button-layout when switching but also will have to unmount and remount the lens.
...

In what world is 25MP (rumoured 6DII) not high-res, but 30 MP (5DIV) is? Would you actually bother to switch cameras in the middle of shooting for this?

No you wouldn't. You would just think "Why the ... do I have to make do with 25?"

 

[Loswr]

The subjective interpretations of customers play an objective role in business. Moral and trust do play a role in business. The way you are looking at "business reality" is just another interpretation and it is solely based on the sales statistics of the past.

Customer interpretation does play a part. And the fact Canon are number one suggests that the general customer does not think the same as you.
I am not using sales to justify Canon continue as they are, nor did I buy from Canon because of their sales, but I am using sales to illustrate that Canon know what they are doing. If they were so incompetent at designing cameras they would not be number one. It is a classic case 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'.

In this case, the pudding you want has all sorts of exotic bits an pieces added at (a) no extra cost or (b) increase the price to a point its sales plummet. Neither make good business sense.

Exactly. Not sure why people have such a hard time comprehending basic business concepts. Maybe their own wants drown out any common sense thoughts in their heads.

 

[fussy III]

The subjective interpretations of customers play an objective role in business. Moral and trust do play a role in business. The way you are looking at "business reality" is just another interpretation and it is solely based on the sales statistics of the past.

Customer interpretation does play a part. And the fact Canon are number one suggests that the general customer does not think the same as you.
I am not using sales to justify Canon continue as they are, nor did I buy from Canon because of their sales, but I am using sales to illustrate that Canon know what they are doing. If they were so incompetent at designing cameras they would not be number one. It is a classic case 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'.

In this case, the pudding you want has all sorts of exotic bits an pieces added at (a) no extra cost or (b) increase the price to a point its sales plummet. Neither make good business sense.

It already is a reality that there are a significant number of potential buyers out there sharing my critisizm, be it photographers or videographers. Just search the web. This is not propaganda, these are all people who are really into what they are doing. Many are fealing let down by Canon. And to many pricing is not the primary concern.

Besides there is a reality outside business that could tell Canon that it isn't nice to piss people off.

 

[d]

...

If he/she is at one moment filming with the 6DII (as rumored) but in the next wishes to get high-res action shots, he/she will feel inclined to switch to a 5DIV for that purpose. If he/she wants to use the same lens for both purposes, that will not only mean that he/she will have to accomodate ...self with a different button-layout when switching but also will have to unmount and remount the lens.
...

In what world is 25MP (rumoured 6DII) not high-res, but 30 MP (5DIV) is? Would you actually bother to switch cameras in the middle of shooting for this?

No you wouldn't. You would just think "Why the ... do I have to make due with 25?"

Sounds like your "high standard", "high demand" photographer/videographer (who is shooting on an entry-level FF body...but each to their own) doesn't really grasp the only very slight increase in resolution a 30MP sensor has over a 25MP sensor. We're talking around 600 extra pixels along the long side of the sensor...where there were 10 pixels, now there are 11. Real-world differences are going to be so slight as to be negligible.

So your "real-world" scenario is kinda pointless.

 

[fussy III]

...

If he/she is at one moment filming with the 6DII (as rumored) but in the next wishes to get high-res action shots, he/she will feel inclined to switch to a 5DIV for that purpose. If he/she wants to use the same lens for both purposes, that will not only mean that he/she will have to accomodate ...self with a different button-layout when switching but also will have to unmount and remount the lens.
...

In what world is 25MP (rumoured 6DII) not high-res, but 30 MP (5DIV) is? Would you actually bother to switch cameras in the middle of shooting for this?

No you wouldn't. You would just think "Why the ... do I have to make due with 25?"

Sounds like your "high standard", "high demand" photographer/videographer (who is shooting on an entry-level FF body...but each to their own) doesn't really grasp the only very slight increase in resolution a 30MP sensor has over a 25MP sensor. We're talking around 600 extra pixels along the long side of the sensor...where there were 10 pixels, now there are 11. Real-world differences are going to be so slight as to be negligible.

So your "real-world" scenario is kinda pointless.

I wonder why Canon isn't making 8Megapixel DSLRs any longer?? Resolution is pointless!

 

[romanr74]

Re: EOS 5D Mark IV

Germany's best selling newspaper...

 

[fussy III]

Germany's best sold newspaper...

How in the world do they manage to keep the price down with all those features included? Surely a miracle. Or is the publishing house perhaps redigesting the same contents in other publications? Maybe a concept Canon can learn from?

 

[d]

I wonder why Canon isn't making 8Megapixel DSLRs any longer?? Resolution is pointless!

You've forgotten your own argument!! I'll remind you: 25MP -> 30MP to get "high-res" images.

Going from 8MP to 30MP would be a significant jump in resolution (you'd nearly double your pixel count along each edge), but going from 25 to 30 to attain "high-res" images, as an example of a "real world" dilemma Canon is placing photographers in, is laughable.

 

[fussy III]

I wonder why Canon isn't making 8Megapixel DSLRs any longer?? Resolution is pointless!

You've forgotten your own argument!! I'll remind you: 25MP -> 30MP to get "high-res" images.

Going from 8MP to 30MP would be a significant jump in resolution (you'd nearly double your pixel count along each edge), but going from 25 to 30 to attain "high-res" images, as an example of a "real world" dilemma Canon is placing photographers in, is laughable.

Good is good, better is better

 

[Mikehit]

It already is a reality that there are a significant number of potential buyers out there sharing my critisizm, be it photographers or videographers. Just search the web. This is not propaganda, these are all people who are really into what they are doing. Many are fealing let down by Canon. And to many pricing is not the primary concern.

Besides there is a reality outside business that could tell Canon that it isn't nice to piss people off.

So I ask again - which camera does everything you want and includes all the things in your wishlist at a price you are willing to pay?

 

[fussy III]

It already is a reality that there are a significant number of potential buyers out there sharing my critisizm, be it photographers or videographers. Just search the web. This is not propaganda, these are all people who are really into what they are doing. Many are fealing let down by Canon. And to many pricing is not the primary concern.

Besides there is a reality outside business that could tell Canon that it isn't nice to piss people off.

So I ask again - which camera does everything you want and includes all the things in your wishlist at a price you are willing to pay?

Keep asking

 

[d]

I wonder why Canon isn't making 8Megapixel DSLRs any longer?? Resolution is pointless!

You've forgotten your own argument!! I'll remind you: 25MP -> 30MP to get "high-res" images.

Going from 8MP to 30MP would be a significant jump in resolution (you'd nearly double your pixel count along each edge), but going from 25 to 30 to attain "high-res" images, as an example of a "real world" dilemma Canon is placing photographers in, is laughable.

Good is good, better is better

And BS is BS.

 

[fussy III]

I wonder why Canon isn't making 8Megapixel DSLRs any longer?? Resolution is pointless!

You've forgotten your own argument!! I'll remind you: 25MP -> 30MP to get "high-res" images.

Going from 8MP to 30MP would be a significant jump in resolution (you'd nearly double your pixel count along each edge), but going from 25 to 30 to attain "high-res" images, as an example of a "real world" dilemma Canon is placing photographers in, is laughable.

Good is good, better is better

And BS is BS.

Agreed

 

[Mikehit]

It already is a reality that there are a significant number of potential buyers out there sharing my critisizm, be it photographers or videographers. Just search the web. This is not propaganda, these are all people who are really into what they are doing. Many are fealing let down by Canon. And to many pricing is not the primary concern.

Besides there is a reality outside business that could tell Canon that it isn't nice to piss people off.

So I ask again - which camera does everything you want and includes all the things in your wishlist at a price you are willing to pay?

Keep asking

I was just interested if there was any manufacturer on the market illustrating what Canon should be doing in addition to what Canon are already doing. It seems not. And you have to ask why not....