EOS 5D Mark IV Update [CR2]

slclick said:
The first thing I think of when I hear the tired 'crippling' remark is how if there was no differentiation then you might as well make one camera. A very expensive camera. More whining, more missing the point of offering a broad range of value and feature sets for a global customer base. NOT a CR base.

Oh, they don't have to include all features in all cameras...they just have to include the features I personally want in the camera(s) that I can personally afford. ;)

My 1D X must be crippled because it lacks in-camera HDR. The 1D X II lacks it as well, making that camera a totally crippled joke that I refuse to buy so Canon is doomed. ;D
 
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Since higher resolution and video mean nothing to me, a second 5DIII at closeout / clearance prices is looking better and better. (Or perhaps a 6DII?).

I'm hoping this new body goes a long way towards satisfying the wants and needs of videographers and high(-er) resolution shooters, however. 8)
 
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JonAustin said:
Since higher resolution and video mean nothing to me, a second 5DIII at closeout / clearance prices is looking better and better. (Or perhaps a 6DII?).

I'm hoping this new body goes a long way towards satisfying the wants and needs of videographers and high(-er) resolution shooters, however. 8)

I'm with you however Canon holds it's resale and used/refurb values very well. All I have ever wished my 5D3 had which it does not is an interchangeable focusing screen.
 
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It will do 4k, 4k, 4k ... rejoiceth!
"video-optimized mirrorslapper" ... contradictio in adjecto. ;)

Not interested. 5D III is the last mirrorslapper in my life. Still hoping Canon finally comes to its senses and builds me a mirrorless EOS M5 plus a few nice and compact pancakes to go along. Of course I would be the only person on the plante to buy it ... according to Neuro. :D
 
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Interesting rumor...

The word "moderate" tells me that the 5D4 will have 24mp. This makes sense to keep buffer capacity, FPS and speeds decent. Also, helps with low light capability. Moderate is a term used to describe when something isn't so great as you'd think.

The word "leap" for dynamic range tells me that rather than the dismal 11ish stops, this camera will probably hit high 12's or low 13's. Which is a leap. A full stop is that is. That's significant by any measure, and for Canon they'd consider that huge. Still not as good as Sony/Nikon. BUT...looking at the earliest 80D results, it appears that Canon is "tuning" their dynamic range like Sony/Nikon. Very high at ISO 100 - 400, about equal to other sensors at 800-1600, then about 1/2 stop weaker beyond 1600....

Which isn't a bad formula for a sensor. After all, once you get into the ISO 3200 and on...the dynamic range stinks in general and saving it a 1/2 stop doesn't do anything to give the image the same pop that low ISO's have.

Like Sony, the big DR numbers drop really fast. Canon sensors have had a more flatter trajectory for DR across the ISO range. Doing better at higher ISO. The counter argument to my earlier dismissive attitude toward high ISO DR is that at higher ISO's - every little bit helps when you are on the very edge of "usable" photos. You want anything you can get. It is of course, a case of diminishing returns.

Same ISO has 1DX2 doesn't say a whole lot. Just means what you can set will be the same, but the 1DX2 will certainly be cleaner.

Anyway, this camera being geared toward video is a disappointing rumor. But has validity. While I and many others would want a killer stills camera that sacrifices nothing for video - Canon not long ago put out what they believe to be the ultimate stills camera the 5DS. This liberates the 5D4 to be more video centric. Whatever the case may be, at 24MP with new sensor, more DR and higher ISO - this will serve as a great low light events camera for wedding pros and general purpose pro use.

I also think that the lack of examinable RAW files for the 1DX2 has everything to do with the 5D4 and its rumors. It has been repeatedly rumored that the 5D4 won't be announced until he 1DX2 is shipping well. This is to slow down defections to Nikon at the non-flagship level. Also to help protect pre-order sales. Here's the reasoning. The 1DX2's image quality will be better than the 5D4 with the exception of all-out resolution by a little bit, and only in ideal situations like studio at lower ISO. Much the same as how the 1DX was better than the 5D3, except in pixel peeping studio shots or heavy crops at low ISO. At higher ISO, the megapixel advantage disappears entirely.

When people see and examine the 1DX2's image quality, dynamic range and ISO -- IF they are not satisfied with that - which I am almost certain **some** people will not be, they can easily infer that the 5D4 will be worse, and thus make a decision to move on if they see fit.

The idea here is that they don't want the 5D4 being prejudged by the results of the 1DX2 for as long as possible, and keep it as close to release time as they can. While information on the internet moves quickly - it still isn't instant and months do make a big difference. Sometimes it takes many weeks or months for someone to get around to having the time to dig in some online research and read all the nit-picking, pixel-peeping fanatical blogs that split hairs between sensors and brands. Not everyone makes camera technology their hobby and follows rumor forums. I'd say that type of person is a very tiny minority. Thus, the general buyers will take longer to get that info or results.

Example, if I was really interested in high dynamic range ...and I took at look at the 1DX2 and found that it doesn't best say, the Nikon D750 or whatever...that would be a big turn off to buying the 5D4, as it is unimaginable that Canon would have the 5D series camera best the 1D in that regard.


Overall though, I do think Canon will make sure the 5D4 is a decent all-around pro DSLR, regardless of what video features it has. For those heavily invested in the Canon system, such as event shooters like wedding pros - this will be their go-to camera. They don't obsess about dynamic range or a few extra megapixels. It is smart move to gear toward video..there's just too many out there who love to use FF as a video platform for the low noise and great IQ. For the wealthy enthusiast, gear lovers and tech junkies, those not too invested in a system -- unless Canon puts up Nikon numbers on DR, there will be a lot more defections to Nikon in this one realm. Just figure, Nikon is due for the D820 not too far from now. The D750, despite the recalls, offers a tremendous amount of features and specs for an extremely reasonable price. That ties into my previous point, if the 5D4's sensor doesn't match or beat the D750's performance -- this will cause Canon to take a lot of abuse online because the D750 is running about $2k from authorized major retailers, an the 5D4 will likely debut at well over $3k....
 
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hopefully with this NEWS
that means it will have 4k video
just guessing the possible frames per second for video
will be a mystery till we get a legit spec sheet
22-25mp jump
a single or dual digics 6+ processors maybe even digic 7 if we are getting a video heavy camera
with improves ISO and DR as said in the email
hoping for 7-8 fps so it can hold its on in sports/action shooting
better buffer and maybe a touch screen?
CANON PLEASE DONT DESIGN THE CAMERA AS 60/40 CAMERA IN FAVOR OF VIDEO FOLKS AND STILLS COSTUMERS
 
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Okay, here's some speculation for you!

Okay, so 4K is 4096x2160, 4096 * 3 us 12288, 1/2 that is 6144, 3/4 that is 4608. So my prediction is going to be a sensor that is 6144x4608, or 28.3 MP (base 10) or slightly larger.

So use pixel pairing for DPAF, *BUT* us pixel triples for each video pixels. And BOOM you have your 1.5X down scaling I mentioned before.

So you get DPAF and NATIVE 1.5X scaling to 4K with NO CROPPING

Bloody brilliant if this is what cannon is doing.

If I am correct, expect a patent in 2 months to pop up!!

Wow, this could be bloody brilliant for stills and video!!
 
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LoneRider said:
Okay, here's some speculation for you!

Okay, so 4K is 4096x2160, 4096 * 3 us 12288, 1/2 that is 6144, 3/4 that is 4608. So my prediction is going to be a sensor that is 6144x4608, or 28.3 MP (base 10) or slightly larger.

So use pixel pairing for DPAF, *BUT* us pixel triples for each video pixels. And BOOM you have your 1.5X down scaling I mentioned before.

So you get DPAF and NATIVE 1.5X scaling to 4K with NO CROPPING

Bloody brilliant if this is what cannon is doing.

If I am correct, expect a patent in 2 months to pop up!!

Wow, this could be bloody brilliant for stills and video!!

I lied, there will be some cropping on the top and bottom ;D

And yes, I am a EE and CompSci dude who does deeply embedded work, linux drivers. I love solving problems. I am disappointed in myself that I did not see this solution a couple weeks back.

And yes, to ties all of the threads together, IF, BIG IF, and am correct. This sensor will make a massively disruptive product introduction in the MILC and DSLR and Video record markets.

Micro lens density might be too great for APS-C right now, and frankly Cannon might have been pushing this bombshell off to FF cameras and not wasting it on the M series.
 
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I've never filmed in 4K.
Is it a great leap forward?
My experience with video in Canon DSLRs is that the quality is good in the image but that it suffers badly from rolling shutter / jello and moving objects can be hard on the eyes to look at.
Does 4K solve any of those issues?

From a photographers perspective its reducing my expectation that they have done much else with the camera.
The 5DIII is a great photographers camera.
Canon would have been struggling to impress me with the Mark IV unless it had amazing ISO performance and 7DII FPS.
I don't know how big file sizes are in a few minutes of 4K. They are already large in HD. With my experiences with the 5DSR memory on PC's and memory cards get quickly filled.
I could be wrong but I'd say only a small portion of the 5DIII sales are for the purpose of (mainly) doing video.
 
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slclick said:
JonAustin said:
Since higher resolution and video mean nothing to me, a second 5DIII at closeout / clearance prices is looking better and better. (Or perhaps a 6DII?).

I'm hoping this new body goes a long way towards satisfying the wants and needs of videographers and high(-er) resolution shooters, however. 8)

I'm with you however Canon holds it's resale and used/refurb values very well. All I have ever wished my 5D3 had which it does not is an interchangeable focusing screen.

Re: resale / used / refurb values, I agree, however, we've recently seen 5D III's from B&H for $2,149 (bundled with a PRO-10 & Adobe CC) and as low as $1,899 (IIRC) from gray market vendors. I expect to be able to pick up a new 5D III from B&H for around $1,750 after the 5D IV / X / whatever is released.
 
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Canon Rumors said:
<p>The same source has also told us that the video features of the camera will be the best in the lineup and will easily best the EOS-1D X Mark II for most filmmakers.

that sounds incorrect.

canon did alot of engineering and only managed to do mpeg at 60p 4k on the 1DX Mark II.

0f243b4aa6dbe11e2cf6d3edbe93f0b7.png



so wiithin the same development time, they are magically going to create something that much better than the 1DX Mark II?

unless they go h.265, instead of h.264 i doubt it will have as good of specification of 4K as the 1DX.

of course unless the 5D Mark IV is 32MP and 8K video. ;)

sorry, just another clickbait article it sounds like ..
 
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Most unfortunately, Canon takes far too long to produce the 5D4. After my 5D3 was stolen, I waited for about seven months for the 5D4 and in the end bought a A7RII, a complex camera with too many settings, endless possibilities. still learning, but I like it. (Fortunetely I can still use Canon lenses.) What I would like to see in ANY camera which has video: longer maximum duration of a video recording. The 30 mins that the 5D3 had and the A7RII has, are to little. Double that time would be perfect for me. Even 45 mins would be a big improvement. Hope my own body will last longer than the 5D3...
Kind regards, R.
 
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K said:
Interesting rumor...

The word "moderate" tells me that the 5D4 will have 24mp. This makes sense to keep buffer capacity, FPS and speeds decent. Also, helps with low light capability. Moderate is a term used to describe when something isn't so great as you'd think.

The word "leap" for dynamic range tells me that rather than the dismal 11ish stops, this camera will probably hit high 12's or low 13's. Which is a leap. A full stop is that is. That's significant by any measure, and for Canon they'd consider that huge. Still not as good as Sony/Nikon. BUT...looking at the earliest 80D results, it appears that Canon is "tuning" their dynamic range like Sony/Nikon. Very high at ISO 100 - 400, about equal to other sensors at 800-1600, then about 1/2 stop weaker beyond 1600....

Which isn't a bad formula for a sensor. After all, once you get into the ISO 3200 and on...the dynamic range stinks in general and saving it a 1/2 stop doesn't do anything to give the image the same pop that low ISO's have.

Like Sony, the big DR numbers drop really fast. Canon sensors have had a more flatter trajectory for DR across the ISO range. Doing better at higher ISO. The counter argument to my earlier dismissive attitude toward high ISO DR is that at higher ISO's - every little bit helps when you are on the very edge of "usable" photos. You want anything you can get. It is of course, a case of diminishing returns.

Same ISO has 1DX2 doesn't say a whole lot. Just means what you can set will be the same, but the 1DX2 will certainly be cleaner.

Anyway, this camera being geared toward video is a disappointing rumor. But has validity. While I and many others would want a killer stills camera that sacrifices nothing for video - Canon not long ago put out what they believe to be the ultimate stills camera the 5DS. This liberates the 5D4 to be more video centric. Whatever the case may be, at 24MP with new sensor, more DR and higher ISO - this will serve as a great low light events camera for wedding pros and general purpose pro use.

I also think that the lack of examinable RAW files for the 1DX2 has everything to do with the 5D4 and its rumors. It has been repeatedly rumored that the 5D4 won't be announced until he 1DX2 is shipping well. This is to slow down defections to Nikon at the non-flagship level. Also to help protect pre-order sales. Here's the reasoning. The 1DX2's image quality will be better than the 5D4 with the exception of all-out resolution by a little bit, and only in ideal situations like studio at lower ISO. Much the same as how the 1DX was better than the 5D3, except in pixel peeping studio shots or heavy crops at low ISO. At higher ISO, the megapixel advantage disappears entirely.

When people see and examine the 1DX2's image quality, dynamic range and ISO -- IF they are not satisfied with that - which I am almost certain **some** people will not be, they can easily infer that the 5D4 will be worse, and thus make a decision to move on if they see fit.

The idea here is that they don't want the 5D4 being prejudged by the results of the 1DX2 for as long as possible, and keep it as close to release time as they can. While information on the internet moves quickly - it still isn't instant and months do make a big difference. Sometimes it takes many weeks or months for someone to get around to having the time to dig in some online research and read all the nit-picking, pixel-peeping fanatical blogs that split hairs between sensors and brands. Not everyone makes camera technology their hobby and follows rumor forums. I'd say that type of person is a very tiny minority. Thus, the general buyers will take longer to get that info or results.

Example, if I was really interested in high dynamic range ...and I took at look at the 1DX2 and found that it doesn't best say, the Nikon D750 or whatever...that would be a big turn off to buying the 5D4, as it is unimaginable that Canon would have the 5D series camera best the 1D in that regard.


Overall though, I do think Canon will make sure the 5D4 is a decent all-around pro DSLR, regardless of what video features it has. For those heavily invested in the Canon system, such as event shooters like wedding pros - this will be their go-to camera. They don't obsess about dynamic range or a few extra megapixels. It is smart move to gear toward video..there's just too many out there who love to use FF as a video platform for the low noise and great IQ. For the wealthy enthusiast, gear lovers and tech junkies, those not too invested in a system -- unless Canon puts up Nikon numbers on DR, there will be a lot more defections to Nikon in this one realm. Just figure, Nikon is due for the D820 not too far from now. The D750, despite the recalls, offers a tremendous amount of features and specs for an extremely reasonable price. That ties into my previous point, if the 5D4's sensor doesn't match or beat the D750's performance -- this will cause Canon to take a lot of abuse online because the D750 is running about $2k from authorized major retailers, an the 5D4 will likely debut at well over $3k....

One of the most cogent musings I have read in the forums to date. Thanks for sharing your insight.
 
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rrcphoto said:
Canon Rumors said:
<p>The same source has also told us that the video features of the camera will be the best in the lineup and will easily best the EOS-1D X Mark II for most filmmakers.

that sounds incorrect.

canon did alot of engineering and only managed to do mpeg at 60p 4k on the 1DX Mark II.

so wiithin the same development time, they are magically going to create something that much better than the 1DX Mark II?

unless they go h.265, instead of h.264 i doubt it will have as good of specification of 4K as the 1DX.

of course unless the 5D Mark IV is 32MP and 8K video. ;)

sorry, just another clickbait article it sounds like ..

If I am correct, the 4K will be full frame width, no crop on the sides. And that alone would be significantly better than the 1DX-ii.

As well, it is very possible they could sneak a $20 (or less) OMAP type processor in the body and get out H.26[4|5] out of a DSP that is made for producing H.26x.

Or another generation of their core processor that has a better DSP capabilities for H.26x generation. But I doubt that somewhat, as I would expect that to have been in the 1DX-ii. Unless they are waiting on firmware to be completed, which would not be ready in time for 1DX-ii release, but will be for 5DX release.

We have mere months to wait .........
 
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