EOS 6D Mark II to Move Upmarket? [CR1]
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RickSpringfield said:
I think that many people prefer the 6D because it's a reasonably sized FF. That is certainly the case with me. Even the 5DIII is unreasonably sized to me. By reasonably sized, I mean that it is totable for a day of hiking/walking.
I want a 6D that has a few more advanced features in the same body.
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If the upcoming high megapixel camera is the replacement of the 5DmkIII then it will be more likely that the 6DmkII will move up with a 20-24mp sensor, better focusing system and dual cards to fill the gap and serve as a "pro" model as a competitor to the D750. With a starting MSRP of no more than $2000-2300 it will be a great deal.
That could lead to a lower end small FF camera with a size close to the 100D and a price tag closer to $1500.
That camera could compete with the A7II and the D610 successor.
That could lead to a lower end small FF camera with a size close to the 100D and a price tag closer to $1500.
That camera could compete with the A7II and the D610 successor.
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Okay, so how about this. Canon likes to migrate things down (i.e. 7D AF to 70D).
How about 6DII = 5DIII focusing system and a dual-pixel version of the 6D sensor all in basically the same body as the 70D (touch screen, flip screen, popup flash, etc.) with an improved version of the 6D mirror box for slightly faster frame rates.
Then, the 5DIV could be the high megapixel camera or multi-layer sensor camera or whatever, and have a body like the 7DII (better weather sealing).
How about 6DII = 5DIII focusing system and a dual-pixel version of the 6D sensor all in basically the same body as the 70D (touch screen, flip screen, popup flash, etc.) with an improved version of the 6D mirror box for slightly faster frame rates.
Then, the 5DIV could be the high megapixel camera or multi-layer sensor camera or whatever, and have a body like the 7DII (better weather sealing).
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Marsu42 said:
If Canon don't produce more 'good enough' cameras for less money, then their competitors will. They have to in the long term. Maybe the high resolution camera confirmed today is the differentiator between the 5d4 and 6d2, along with dual card slots.
There's always something we don't yet know about for the generation after next, but these become less important in the second decade of any technology. The heyday of the full frame DSLR as a high margin item is drawing to a close, it will soon be a choice based upon bulk and weight, not price.
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Again, if you just read your own posts while taking an outsiders perspective you'll see one glaring trend...Canon doesn't make one camera to rule them all. Each camera is for a market or for a level. I've recently become more vocal as evidenced in my new membership here because it's time to finally react like a market. At any point in time, Canon or Nikon could easily slay the entire industry if they would just create one killer camera that is untouchable and price it to slay all others. Canon is too risk averse.
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RickSpringfield said:
In a sense it is a compromise. But for most people the compromise, other than pride of ownership (i.e., ego), is too small to be measured. But the value of having the best, is immense. ;D
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JawZ said:
Actually, I think that Canon makes the most versatile DSLR cameras than any other brand...the 7DII, 5DIII and 1DX are fine examples of this. There is nothing from Nikon or other brands which comes close to the versatility which these two cameras offer. They excel in pretty much every thing a photographer could need or want. But if you are looking for a 35+mp camera....sorry but you are in the minority and therefore a niche market. Sure other cameras may have a single spec which is more dominant....but again that's a single feature swing into niche land.
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pedro said:
Doubtful - they've already got the 7d2 for tracking and "ok" iq. Anyone wanting better sensitivity than that will still have to pay a lot of more than ~€2k, or accept crippling of some sort or the other. Just releasing a 6d2 = 6d1+5d3/1dx af system would endanger their premium camera sales.
I find it more likely that the 6d2 will move "upmarket" simply by better build quality and some more features (dual pixel af), but certainly not by being a re-incarnated 5d3.
And "upmarket" could also simply mean that Canon sees that customers are ready to pay more for a ff camera than the current 6d1's price tag is at least in the US, so they'll try to legitimize this somehow.
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Lee Jay said:
A 6D2 with a "70D body" and 5D3 autofocus?
It makes sense: someone says that the first 6D was a 60D body (except articulating LCD) with basically a 5D2 autofocus, so the new 6D could inherit the body from the new 60D (=70D) and the AF from the new 5D2 (=5D3). Plus, the 6D IQ or slightly better.
Too good to be true, for a non-professional user like me? Too similar to the present 5D3?
I think that a 70D AF (19 cross-points) would be enough for photographers like me: I managed to survive the 5Dc and even the EOS M's AF systems
.Let's hope that Canon makes room for that by putting in their 5D4 (and 1Dx2) an AF furtherly improved (better than 7D2).
If Canon doesn't deliver a current AF module on the 6D2... well, I'll have to stick with my 5D classic until the price of a used 5D3 gets close to 1000 Eur.
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The Canon 6D MKII will sit in roughly the same place it is in now. The Sony A7 MKII is £ 1500 body only in the UK, the Sony A7R body only is £ 1349, the Nikon D610 body only is £ 1199, and the Nikon D750 body only is £ 1749 and will surely fall over the coming months. With this in mind its difficult to see Canon getting the 6D MKII any higher than the Nikon D750 is at launch and even more less likely if it doesnt want to lose sales to either Nikon or Sony.
The Canon 6D MKII as a minimum will need to have more AF points at least 19 and likely more all cross type, it will need class leading low light capabilities as the original did, the shutter life should move to 150,000 and it should adopt the toggle of the 7D not the slower D pad. In every other aspect the camera for its price is fine BUT staying true to its present market is a must or Canon will need another camera to fill the void.
The Canon 6D MKII as a minimum will need to have more AF points at least 19 and likely more all cross type, it will need class leading low light capabilities as the original did, the shutter life should move to 150,000 and it should adopt the toggle of the 7D not the slower D pad. In every other aspect the camera for its price is fine BUT staying true to its present market is a must or Canon will need another camera to fill the void.
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K said:
...and...
jeffa4444 said:
... no way! Canon will make sure there is a healthy difference between 5d and 6d and that the cheap model is *not* "good enough" for semi-pro shooting (i.e. shutter life) or tracking. Just putting 4k into the 5d4 won't manage that, they still have to down-cripple the 6d a lot either via hardware (af points) or firmware. Of course if the 5d4 has a serious sensor upgrade, they could be a bit more lenient with the 6d2.
For every customer that buys a €2000 6d2 instead of a €3500 5d4 Canon looses a lot of money (esp. if the 6d is cheap to produce with legacy parts). The 6d isn't there to because Canon intends to have a nice ff system option for the masses, but simply because they have to make sure people don't jump ship to the Nikon d6x0.
Personally, I don't see a 6d2 at all for some time as long as they make money from the 6d1 - question is how cheap to produce the 6d1 is and how long they can live with dropping prices.
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Marsu42 said:
Interesting.
In my opinion, Canon is very, very lucky about 2 things:
1. Nikon has had quality control issues and recalls on their bodies - this has scared many users away.
2. Nikon has not updated their heavy hitter pro lenses in some time ( 24-70 and 70-200 ) as well as a few other key lenses.
As a system, Canon does have a clear edge on glass. Better pro lenses without question. Nikon might be a tad better on the consumer level lenses though.
If Nikon puts out a 24-70 and 70-200 that are as sharp and as good as Canon's...I'll probably switch to Nikon. Sure, they have recalls and issues, but we know they take care of these issues. I can tolerate that. I prefer Canon controls, ergos, menus and all that - but I can tolerate Nikon. It isn't that bad.
What is very agitating about Canon is how they cripple their gear in such an insulting way to consumer's intelligence. Nikon, for whatever reason, is not scared to give their FF users:
1. 39 to 51 AF points in a good AF system
2. Dual card slots
3. A fully functional menu system with options
4. Better video features
That's just 4 off the top of my head. But there are a lot more.
Nikon doesn't feel that providing good AF and dual slots is a threat to their D810 or D4 line of Pro cameras.
What we're comparing here is the D610 and D750 to the 6D. Nikon isn't doing this very petty and intentional crippling. Sure, as you go up models, there's better features and quality. That is to be expected. But what shouldn't be on the table is using an AF system from 2007, or a single card slot. It is just a distasteful way to do it.
I have a 6D. It has an awesome low light sensor. But the Nikon equivalents are much more feature rich. You get more for your money. The 6D's current prices are more accurate to its feature set. It isn't a $2K camera. Doesn't deserve to be.
All that said, GLASS trumps bodies.
I eagerly await the Nikon updates to those two lenses. Hoping it happens in the next two years. It should, because with higher MP cameras being released, Nikon can really benefit from better glass.
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Marsu42 said:
There has to be a differential between the 6D2 and the 5D4, but I think you're overstating the difficulty of this. It's often said (and I fully agree) that the 6D2 just needs to be a "full frame 70D". The 5D3 is already well ahead of that in AF system, and in body features and handling. A 5D4 would be even further ahead obviously. There would be no need to make the 6D2 any less than the 70D, and a slightly upgraded AF system (a few more points and wider coverage) would be very welcome and would still not hurt 5D4 sales. Those who want and can afford a 5D4 wouldn't be interested in a "full frame 70D".
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robbinzo said:
I am curious as if your built your opinion on specifications rather than comparing the 6D the newer 70D in real life??
It took me one shot in the camera store with 6D and 24/105L to convince me that my 70D and Sigma 18-35 1.8 had to go right there and then. Sure I miss the tilting touch screen and dpaf, but eventually the 6D enabled me to take the pictures I wanted where I did not achieve the same success with 70D. And the larger and brighter viewfinder, GPS and Wifi was not too bad on 6D.
Therefore the 6D has its place, for me it is close to perfect, although more robust auto focus would not hurt and even better ISO performance. Double card slots is not a selling point for me, but then I am not earning my living through photography. I rather have the lightness compared to 5D.
I was even considering a Nikon Df as a walk around camera to replace my X100 after analyzing raw files from dpreview, but when I held it in my hand I could not stand it.
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jeffa4444 said:
A crop rebel is hardly a competition for a ff camera ...
jeffa4444 said:
... and this number has a lot of marketing to it, you only know how durable the shutter really is after years of usage by lots of people or getting inside knowledge from Canon r&d.
Freddell said:
It's like an insurance, you only value it if you've lose one or several day's worth of great pictures, so imho it has its place in an "non-pro" camera, too, as the sd slot doesn't take a lot of space. But of course Canon did it to make the 6d more awkward to use for actual professionals having to explain to their customers why all shots went south.
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