EOS 6D Mark II to Move Upmarket? [CR1]

[duppencf]

wedding and social media stuff...that's nice.

So a 6D mk ii, slap a full frame dual pixel sensor in with moderate bumps in other specs, and you're going to have a winner already.

Sure I'd like the wifi to be easy enough to post durring a wedding.
Sure I'd like slightly better autofocus
But what makes sense is video features to utilize dual pixel autofocus.

I'd definitely pay for a FF 70d. I'd pay a more for focus racking, headphone out, higher dynamic range, raw or high bitrate video, maybe 4k vid.

 

[macogley]

I own a 6D and love it but if Canon are disappointed with it then they have only themselves to blame. I shoot with centre point focus which is good for me but they made a decision to severely limit the number of points and cross type points. They limited their market by doing this and I have no idea what they saved in manufacturing costs but I suspect it was minimal compared to the impact on sales that has been seen.

I'd also love to see some firmware updates to allow for quick access to off camera flash options - at the moment the method of getting to this menu is far too complex; especially when working on a wedding and trying to make adjustments fast on the fly.

Anyone any thoughts similar to this?...

 

[Laslen]

Anyone any thoughts similar to this?...

Canon is giving us less options and making FF less accessible... while Nikon has D610, D750, D810 currently, they want to make their FX format standard for everyone, and they've been discussing full-frame mirrorless.

And I'm not a Nikon troll. I've never even owned a Nikon (other than old film 35mm's). But still, I've been searching for a backup camera lately, and what I've been reading about Canon is really nonsensical. They used to be the innovators (remember the original 5D?). They seem to be squandering that now. I WANT to buy a 5D3, but I'm reluctant to invest more money in them for reasons like this.

 

[coppec]

Anyone any thoughts similar to this?...

Canon is giving us less options and making FF less accessible... while Nikon has D610, D750, D810 currently, they want to make their FX format standard for everyone, and they've been discussing full-frame mirrorless.

And I'm not a Nikon troll. I've never even owned a Nikon (other than old film 35mm's). But still, I've been searching for a backup camera lately, and what I've been reading about Canon is really nonsensical. They used to be the innovators (remember the original 5D?). They seem to be squandering that now. I WANT to buy a 5D3, but I'm reluctant to invest more money in them for reasons like this.

My thought was same as yours!

I have been a canonist since the 10D and when I saw the 6D specs I was like wtf Canon is thinking. Nikon and even Sony are making their FF bodies mainstream with plenty of features while Canon tried to milk people with a super basic FF body with crappy AF (compared to the competition).

The 6D mkII if it ever comes out should at least have 21 all cross typed AF points in rectangular shape + rotative screen + dual SD card slots + at least 1 eV of DR more than the current 6D at $2000 max .. to really compete with what Nikon or Sony are offering and to improves its sales.

Canon is no longer the leader of the market (image quality wise) as it used to be back then so they need to push hard to be in the game

 

[Nethawk]

...my pride won't let me release ANYTHING that hasn't been looked at up-close on a large monitor. Further, if I put up more than one shot of an event, it really needs to "tell a story", the pictures need to give each other context.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd.............we have a winner!

+1

That professional photographers might lose business to iPhone shooters due to the speed of posting on Facebook is just laughable. There's a reason pro photographers exist, and this is it.

 

[unfocused]

...my pride won't let me release ANYTHING that hasn't been looked at up-close on a large monitor. Further, if I put up more than one shot of an event, it really needs to "tell a story", the pictures need to give each other context.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd.............we have a winner!

+1

That professional photographers might lose business to iPhone shooters due to the speed of posting on Facebook is just laughable. There's a reason pro photographers exist, and this is it.

Resisting and denying change is such an effective business strategy.

 

[PaulG]

I think everyone's looking at the 6D as some sort of crippled Mk3. They're missing the point: the 6D represents a stripped down approach to full frame. Its as though Canon looked at the Mk3 and said "What don't we need on this camera?"

I'm a film-maker who uses cameras professionally. I don't shoot sports, weddings, fashion, or birds. I mostly use cameras for product work, animation, time-lapse and general use. I have owned Nikons throughout my life and switched to Canon when DSLRs got good video capabilities. ( I have since moved most of my fiim/video work to my Black Magic Cinema Cameras, which have better IQ and codecs)

At first, I had a Mk2 and a 7D and they complemented each other as an A-cam and B-cam. I then sold the Mk2 and bought a Mk3. I then returned the Mk3 a week later with a battery issue and decided to swap for a 6D instead.

Here's why:

1) 6D is quite a bit lighter than the Mk3. It makes an ideal street camera, especially with a light lens like the 40mm pancake 2.8

2) 6D has (to my mind) a better button layout and puts the zoom in back on the right where it belongs. Who needs a "rate" button. The 6D layout is much easier to one-hand than the Mk3.

3) IQ on the 6D is stellar and low light/high ISO works well.

4) The simpler focus system works just fine for my uses and function better in low light

5) Wifi and GPS.

6) Despite owning a lot of CF cards, I'm actually happier to use SD cards, which work directly with my Macbook and don't need an adapter.


A few gripes (compare to the mk3): I'd like another Custom setting (C3), I'd like PC sync port and headphone jack. ISO button on the top would be nice. None of these are deal breakers.

As far as focus is concerned, I do a lot of manual focussing anyway, so I'm not that bothered and don't want to have a overly complex autofocus system.

Updates I'd like:
1) USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt for fast tethering.
2) Better WIFI support
3) Higher res screen
4) Focus peaking (not just confirmation)
5) Even more bit-depth (but not necessarily higher res)


I've used the 6D in the rain and in the cold. It's plenty robust. To call this camera "entry-level" is nonsense. Yes, its simpler and has fewer features, but they kept the right ones in, especially if what you want is a full-frame camera that's a bit smaller and more portable. I know plenty of professionals who use this camera to make money. I think its a bargain compared to a Mk3 and I love full-frame shooting, so the new 7D doesn't thrill me anyway.

 

[Marsu42]

I think everyone's looking at the 6D as some sort of crippled Mk3. They're missing the point: the 6D represents a stripped down approach to full frame. Its as though Canon looked at the Mk3 and said "What don't we need on this camera?"

... in this case, they could just have added the full-blown firmware - why can I play audio files along side my in-camera slide show, but cannot save hdr source files or do raw hdr? This is software crippling by removal of features, just like removing 1/8000 shutter or 1/200 x-sync is on the hardware side. Beware, it's absolutely terrific you like the 6d just as it is.

4) Focus peaking (not just confirmation)

You do know Magic Lantern has focus peaking and then some, right?

I've used the 6D in the rain and in the cold. It's plenty robust. To call this camera "entry-level" is nonsense.

Your opinion of other people's opinions is appreciated. However, one word of warning from bad experience - the 6d's sealing isn't as sturdy as (semi-)pro camera bodies like the 5d3 or 7d, using the 6d in rain w/o any damage basically comes down to even more luck than with other non-1d cameras.

 

[Khalai]

I've used the 6D in the rain and in the cold. It's plenty robust. To call this camera "entry-level" is nonsense.

Your opinion of other people's opinions is appreciated. However, one word of warning from bad experience - the 6d's sealing isn't as sturdy as (semi-)pro camera bodies like the 5d3 or 7d, using the 6d in rain w/o any damage basically comes down to even more luck than with other non-1d cameras.

I was under the impression, that 6D equals 5D2 in terms of weather-sealing. However, since there are no measurable data about such sealings (IP xx comes to mind), you can only guesstimate, what a body can withstand. I have a quite positive experience with my 6D - several days of rather intense raining with 6D+16-35L on my neck all the time, wet all the time - still ticks like clockwork. So yes, it may not have the ruggedness of 5D3/7D2/1Dx, but it's quite durable and can withstand some abuse, no need to worry and treat it like some precious ornate glass...

 

[StudentOfLight]

I own a 6D and love it but if Canon are disappointed with it then they have only themselves to blame. I shoot with centre point focus which is good for me but they made a decision to severely limit the number of points and cross type points. They limited their market by doing this and I have no idea what they saved in manufacturing costs but I suspect it was minimal compared to the impact on sales that has been seen.

I'd also love to see some firmware updates to allow for quick access to off camera flash options - at the moment the method of getting to this menu is far too complex; especially when working on a wedding and trying to make adjustments fast on the fly.

Anyone any thoughts similar to this?...

Which off-camera flash options are you referring to? How would you want things to work?

 

[wsheldon]

I own a 6D and love it but if Canon are disappointed with it then they have only themselves to blame. I shoot with centre point focus which is good for me but they made a decision to severely limit the number of points and cross type points. They limited their market by doing this and I have no idea what they saved in manufacturing costs but I suspect it was minimal compared to the impact on sales that has been seen.

I'd also love to see some firmware updates to allow for quick access to off camera flash options - at the moment the method of getting to this menu is far too complex; especially when working on a wedding and trying to make adjustments fast on the fly.

Anyone any thoughts similar to this?...

Have you tried reprogramming the menus? I added "External Speedlite control" to the "My Menu", and reprogrammed the SET button to bring up the FEC settings and that really simplified things for me during lit shoots. I really wish you could break out the "Flash function" settings from the External Speedlite control menu and get to it with one touch, then it would be ideal when it's too fiddly to see/reach the ST-E3, but this is workable for me.

 

[PaulG]

... in this case, they could just have added the full-blown firmware - why can I play audio files along side my in-camera slide show, but cannot save hdr source files or do raw hdr? This is software crippling by removal of features, just like removing 1/8000 shutter or 1/200 x-sync is on the hardware side. Beware, it's absolutely terrific you like the 6d just as it is.

Not to apologize for Canon, but based on a certain processor spec, they may not have designed the camera for 1/8000 or raw HDR, or other stuff only available through ML hacks.

4) Focus peaking (not just confirmation)

You do know Magic Lantern has focus peaking and then some, right?

Yes I'm familiar with ML and all its goodies. My feeling is that ML is really cool but not really a pro-option that I would rely on for paying work. And its true that there are ML features that have made their way into the main firmware including Audio Levels, which people were clamoring for. Raw video is something that I'm sure Canon avoided for too many compromises including very specific media cards which not everyone will have or afford.

The one thing I left off my wish list, however, which they've finally included in the 7D mk II, is the built-in intervalometer, which I can only imagine is purely software based. Finally, I'll be able to throw out that over-priced cable release that Canon sells at a 5x premium over identical knock-offs to suckers like me who want the word Canon on their accessories.

 

[x-vision]

To call this camera "entry-level" is nonsense. Yes, its simpler and has fewer features, but they kept the right ones in, especially if what you want is a full-frame camera that's a bit smaller and more portable. I know plenty of professionals who use this camera to make money. I think its a bargain compared to a Mk3 and I love full-frame shooting, so the new 7D doesn't thrill me anyway.

The irony is that Canon obviously designed the 6D to not be used by pros.
And yet, pros are the ones working around its limitations with the least complaints.
They love the results and find the 6D a bargain, considering how quickly the camera pays for itself.
And since the camera has paid for itself, pros are likely to quickly upgrade when a successor is announced.

For non-pros, it's a different story: for $2K, I'm expecting a full-featured camera, which I'll likely keep for years.
Thus, while others see the 6D as a bargain, I see it as a poor long-term purchase - due to its limited features
and poor overall value as a long-term purchase.

Note, though, that when Nikon hits the jackpot with a model (D3, D300, D750), Canon follows suit in a couple of years.
So, it can be fully expected that in (at most) two years, Canon will have a worthy competitor to the D750.
And at that time, it won't be worth arguing whether the 6DII is crippled or not 8).

 

[AvTvM]

Not much wrong with the 6D. Except pricing. It is basically a FF Rebel. It should come at 999 USD/Euro. It would have sold like hotcakes. Most basic, but lowest cost ff dslr.

The way it is, i am not interested. Way to crippled for the price. And way bigger than similarly priced sony A7.

 

[Laslen]

Note, though, that when Nikon hits the jackpot with a model (D3, D300, D750), Canon follows suit in a couple of years.
So, it can be fully expected that in (at most) two years, Canon will have a worthy competitor to the D750.
And at that time, it won't be worth arguing whether the 6DII is crippled or not 8).

Well, at least there are some optimists left. Personally, I'm part of the camp that believes we won't even be talking about DSLRs in two years. I think they'll be in the same category like Leica's digital cameras -- Overpriced, don't really do anything drastically different, but some people still buy them because; they're built like tanks, they like the brand name, and for the novelty of it. Of course, this is not something I want... but it's just a fact that DSLRs seem increasingly marginalized in the realm of newer technologies.

Not to stray too far off topic... I hope this rumor is incorrect. This would be a big mistake for the 6D2. As for Canon, don't you think the company that is 2 years behind should be #2 in the market, at best? If people keep buying them because "that's what the pros use" they will never feel the need to truly be innovative. I mean, if you're Canon, why spend extra money on competitive technologies? If you're going to sell the same amount of cameras anyway, and especially more than Nikon, it doesn't really make a difference.

I hope they pull ahead again soon -- in more than just market share.

 

[unfocused]

I know this is the internet, people like to make things up and it's probably futile to try to correct the myths, but...

...it is absolutely wrong that the 6D has not been a good seller for Canon or that there is any way Canon could be disappointed in its sales.

Until recent weeks, the 6D has consistently been the best selling full-frame DSLR on the Amazon best sellers ranking. Only in recent weeks, with the introduction of new full frame models from Nikon (which are likely selling as a result of pent-up demand from Nikon users), has the 6D dropped. But, it still sells very well (No. 12 as currently). Once the pent-up demand from Nikon users subsides, and holiday sales begin, it's very likely the 6D will again take over as the sales king of full frame DSLRs.

People can dispute the list, but I've yet to see any other independent ranking that shows the relative sales of camera models.

You can complain all you want about the 6D and its features, but unless you can produce better numbers, don't think for a minute that it hasn't been a great success for Canon.

 

[PaulG]

A couple of thoughts:

The "war" between Nikon and Canon (et. al.) may be interesting, comparing model-for-model differences, but at the upper end, it takes quite a bit for advanced DSLR users to switch willy-nilly and suffer the pain of a new lens eco-system and workflow change. As we know, the cost of camera bodies is trivial compared to the investment in lenses and accessories that most ardent photographers make.

It's the point-and-shoot crowd that are the quickest to switch sides for a perceived feature advantage. It took a major change, like full frame HD video support in the 5D Mk2, to make me switch from Nikon to Canon, and I don't see switching back any time soon.

Anyone who's ever tried to use an iPhone (or similar) to do anything beyond snap-shooting will tell you that a high-end DSLR with superior optics and controls is not even remotely comparable. iPhones are well designed and very convenient, but they have tiny crappy lenses that will never be the equal of Canon L glass. I agree that there's iPhone technology that the Canons and Nikons of the world need to take to heart, but for the upper end, its no comparison.

And whenever I hear that another newspaper has fired its photo staff and given iPhones to its reporters, I get chills for all the hard working artists who spent years honing their craft to be told that the world can no longer "afford" competent photography.

 

[dufflover]

You can complain all you want about the 6D and its features, but unless you can produce better numbers, don't think for a minute that it hasn't been a great success for Canon.

Well the rumour is that it's Canon themselves saying this about the sales not the CR complainers. We just offer up some simple explanations lol

 

[jeffa4444]

As a very happy 6D user (Landscape doesn't require fancy AF) I would be appaulled if Canon added a large increase on the 6D MKII without making an entry level camera in the FF sector their is no way I would pay £1,000 / $ 1600 more.
Nikon offer two cameras in this sector the D610 & the D750 Canon would be insane to think the 7D MKII with a crop sensor will be a lanscape photographers choice it will not be.
My 7D is used for wildlife & sports and that is where I will use the 7D MKII when I upgrade. I hope Canon staff watch this site because a camera in the FF £1350 / $ 1650 body only range will still have a significant market, if they dont then my next maybe a Sony.

 

[macogley]

Have you tried reprogramming the menus? I added "External Speedlite control" to the "My Menu", and reprogrammed the SET button to bring up the FEC settings and that really simplified things for me during lit shoots. I really wish you could break out the "Flash function" settings from the External Speedlite control menu and get to it with one touch, then it would be ideal when it's too fiddly to see/reach the ST-E3, but this is workable for me.

Hi, yeah I have the menus set up like that right now but still find it clunkier than it needs to be. I use the Yongnuo triggers and would love to be able to shortcut a button to the Flash Function Settings.

As opposed to....
1. Menu (go to My Menu)
2. Scroll to External Speedlite Control
3. Scroll to Flash function settings
4. Adjust the various settings

When I need to make a slight tweak it's the same again.

I totally agree that the FEC shortcut works great for on camera or single flash shoots but it would be so much easier if this was tidied up a bit.