EOS 7D Replacement Coming for CP+? [CR1]

[jrista]

One thing that better be there (IMO) is dual cf slots. Not sd. Dual!!! :

Right now, an 18M sensor shooting RAW makes about a 25Mbyte file.. the larger sensor in a 7D2 will make a larger file, let's assume around 30Mbytes.

Go SD card... the fastest card on the market can write at 90Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 3 frames per second....

Go Compact Flash... the fastest cards have a write speed of 150Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 5 frames per second....

Go Cfast Pro.. the INTRODUCTORY! cards have a write speed of 350Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 11.7 frames per second....

I am hoping for dual slots, one SD for convenience/interoperability, and the other Cfast for blazing speed.

Burst rate is due to the buffer memory speed, not the memory card speed. The DIGIC processors suck in data from the sensor, process it, and dump it into the frame buffer memory first. Buffer memory is a hell of a lot faster than card memory. From the buffer, the images are then dumped to the memory card at a slower rate. That is why you can eventually fill up the frame buffer.

On Canon cameras, flush to memory card occurs simultaneously with write to buffer, so even once the buffer is full, you can still get a decent frame rate of 2-3 frames per second or more (depends on the memory card speed). Also, if Canon rates their max frame rate at 8fps for 35 continuous frames for 600x CF cards, and you drop in a 1000x CF card, you still get 8fps, but you get 8fps for more than 35 continuous frames...you get maybe 40 or 42 continuous frames before you slow down. However once you slow down, your frame rate with the 1000x CF card would be higher...maybe 4-5 fps rather than 2-3 fps.

 

[skycolt]

I hope not. 6D has 5Diii above it while 7dii supposes to be the king of it's kind. If that's the spec and it's priced at ~$2000 I doubt how many will sell. 5D3 or 1D4 will be a better choice than 7d2 then.

I really do not have big expectations from 7DII. Take a look at rumours before 6d release and real camera. In new 7dII i expect the following:

- the same sensor as in 70D
- slightly better autofocus ( worse than in 5dIII)
- slightly higher fps (maybe 10)
- wifi and gps

Forget about better DR and high ISO performance. Canon does not want aps-c camera to match FF camera in performance (i guess it is not possible technically if you do not develop new sensor, which is smaller in size than in 5dIII but is much better).

Canon does not have new sensor, which people expect. When such sensor is ready it will be introduced in 1d camera body for which Canon will rip customers by asking to high price.

All these talks about 7dII remind me rumours about iPhone 5s when people had very high expectations but received practically the same phone. Canon is milking the same cash cow and doing that quite well. What is the purpose of introducing cutting edge technology when you doing so much cash without significant investments in R&D. That's the sad truth.

 

[skycolt]

I'd rather have 2 CF card slot, with a optional CF-SD adapter

One thing that better be there (IMO) is dual cf slots. Not sd. Dual!!! :

Right now, an 18M sensor shooting RAW makes about a 25Mbyte file.. the larger sensor in a 7D2 will make a larger file, let's assume around 30Mbytes.

Go SD card... the fastest card on the market can write at 90Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 3 frames per second....

Go Compact Flash... the fastest cards have a write speed of 150Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 5 frames per second....

Go Cfast Pro.. the INTRODUCTORY! cards have a write speed of 350Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 11.7 frames per second....

BTW.... from the Sandisk site.... The SanDisk Extreme PRO CFast 2.0 memory card was designed in parallel with leading-edge camera manufacturers. This is good clue that it is coming on "pro" cameras....


I am hoping for dual slots, one SD for convenience/interoperability, and the other Cfast for blazing speed.

 

[Don Haines]

One thing that better be there (IMO) is dual cf slots. Not sd. Dual!!! :

Right now, an 18M sensor shooting RAW makes about a 25Mbyte file.. the larger sensor in a 7D2 will make a larger file, let's assume around 30Mbytes.

Go SD card... the fastest card on the market can write at 90Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 3 frames per second....

Go Compact Flash... the fastest cards have a write speed of 150Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 5 frames per second....

Go Cfast Pro.. the INTRODUCTORY! cards have a write speed of 350Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 11.7 frames per second....

I am hoping for dual slots, one SD for convenience/interoperability, and the other Cfast for blazing speed.

Burst rate is due to the buffer memory speed, not the memory card speed. The DIGIC processors suck in data from the sensor, process it, and dump it into the frame buffer memory first. Buffer memory is a hell of a lot faster than card memory. From the buffer, the images are then dumped to the memory card at a slower rate. That is why you can eventually fill up the frame buffer.

On Canon cameras, flush to memory card occurs simultaneously with write to buffer, so even once the buffer is full, you can still get a decent frame rate of 2-3 frames per second or more (depends on the memory card speed). Also, if Canon rates their max frame rate at 8fps for 35 continuous frames for 600x CF cards, and you drop in a 1000x CF card, you still get 8fps, but you get 8fps for more than 35 continuous frames...you get maybe 40 or 42 continuous frames before you slow down. However once you slow down, your frame rate with the 1000x CF card would be higher...maybe 4-5 fps rather than 2-3 fps.

agreed, but I was just thinking of the last part of the puzzle, dumping the image to the card... (I did say SUSTAIN a burst rate ) slap in a cFast card at 2333X and you never fill the buffer...

SD cards are everywhere... it seems like every device can read them, so from a portability/compatibility point of view that it is highly likely that most cameras will have one. I can plug one into my TV, into the DVD player, into my laptop, into my tablet, and into my computer. They are fast enough now for all but the most demanding users.

Compact Flash cards, although they used to be far superior to SD cards, are now fairly close in capabilities... I don't think that there are any that can double the speed of the best SD cards...

cFast is a different story.... the first cards are 2300X and the target rate is 4000X. 4000X would keep up to a 50Mpixel sensor at 10 frames per second... think of a 600Mb/sec hard drive in a flash memory card... This is going to be needed for 4K video..

 

[jrista]

One thing that better be there (IMO) is dual cf slots. Not sd. Dual!!! :

Right now, an 18M sensor shooting RAW makes about a 25Mbyte file.. the larger sensor in a 7D2 will make a larger file, let's assume around 30Mbytes.

Go SD card... the fastest card on the market can write at 90Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 3 frames per second....

Go Compact Flash... the fastest cards have a write speed of 150Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 5 frames per second....

Go Cfast Pro.. the INTRODUCTORY! cards have a write speed of 350Mbytes/second. The camera could sustain a burst speed of 11.7 frames per second....

I am hoping for dual slots, one SD for convenience/interoperability, and the other Cfast for blazing speed.

Burst rate is due to the buffer memory speed, not the memory card speed. The DIGIC processors suck in data from the sensor, process it, and dump it into the frame buffer memory first. Buffer memory is a hell of a lot faster than card memory. From the buffer, the images are then dumped to the memory card at a slower rate. That is why you can eventually fill up the frame buffer.

On Canon cameras, flush to memory card occurs simultaneously with write to buffer, so even once the buffer is full, you can still get a decent frame rate of 2-3 frames per second or more (depends on the memory card speed). Also, if Canon rates their max frame rate at 8fps for 35 continuous frames for 600x CF cards, and you drop in a 1000x CF card, you still get 8fps, but you get 8fps for more than 35 continuous frames...you get maybe 40 or 42 continuous frames before you slow down. However once you slow down, your frame rate with the 1000x CF card would be higher...maybe 4-5 fps rather than 2-3 fps.

agreed, but I was just thinking of the last part of the puzzle, dumping the image to the card... (I did say SUSTAIN a burst rate ) slap in a cFast card at 2333X and you never fill the buffer...

SD cards are everywhere... it seems like every device can read them, so from a portability/compatibility point of view that it is highly likely that most cameras will have one. I can plug one into my TV, into the DVD player, into my laptop, into my tablet, and into my computer. They are fast enough now for all but the most demanding users.

Compact Flash cards, although they used to be far superior to SD cards, are now fairly close in capabilities... I don't think that there are any that can double the speed of the best SD cards...

cFast is a different story.... the first cards are 2300X and the target rate is 4000X. 4000X would keep up to a 50Mpixel sensor at 10 frames per second... think of a 600Mb/sec hard drive in a flash memory card... This is going to be needed for 4K video..

Oh, I understand now.

I totally agree. I'd love to see dual CFast slots in the 7D II, even if it means I have to buy new cards. I'd be quite happy with 2300x, but 4000x, damn strait...you'd have near-infinite continuous shooting. Not that you would really want to do that...but those times when you hit the buffer limit, and miss that perfect pose because it happens inbetween those 2-3 frame spurts...bah!

 

[Harry Muff]

Bored now. It gets here when it gets here.

 

[Don Haines]

I totally agree. I'd love to see dual CFast slots in the 7D II, even if it means I have to buy new cards. I'd be quite happy with 2300x, but 4000x, damn strait...you'd have near-infinite continuous shooting. Not that you would really want to do that...but those times when you hit the buffer limit, and miss that perfect pose because it happens inbetween those 2-3 frame spurts...bah!

It is quite possible that this is the beginning of the end for the compact flash card. It will not be able to compete with cFast for speed and it already can not compete with SD for convenience/versatility.

I'd say how I feel sorry for people with Compact Flash cards.... but I'm one of them... I recently purged my kit of an item that should have been on the "useless accessory" thread... a bunch of 32M compact flash cards... they only had space for 1 picture per card... (Yes, I tried it )

 

[Marauder]

I can't help but wonder if the 100-400L II will also be announced concurrently with the 7D II. Combining one of the most anticipated cameras with one of the most anticipated lenses would seem to make sense, from a "OMG, OMG, OMG!" sense of excitement, given that a fan of one, is likely to be a fan of the other as well--an "affordable" action camera and an "affordable" long L series telephoto. If so, I'm wondering if it's possible that Canon would have a combo deal on both products. I've never seen them do such a thing, but I'm relatively new to this---bought my first SLR (the T3i,) in 2011, followed by the 7D in 2012. For those of you with more experience in Canon's product line, is this likely, or even remotely probable? I'd love to hear your opinions.

 

[candc]

I can't help but wonder if the 100-400L II will also be announced concurrently with the 7D II. Combining one of the most anticipated cameras with one of the most anticipated lenses would seem to make sense, from a "OMG, OMG, OMG!" sense of excitement, given that a fan of one, is likely to be a fan of the other as well--an "affordable" action camera and an "affordable" long L series telephoto. If so, I'm wondering if it's possible that Canon would have a combo deal on both products. I've never seen them do such a thing, but I'm relatively new to this---bought my first SLR (the T3i,) in 2011, followed by the 7D in 2012. For those of you with more experience in Canon's product line, is this likely, or even remotely probable? I'd love to hear your opinions.

I wouldn't expect any incentives on a new product launch that is going to sell very well. Canon has offered discounts on certain lenses in the past. I think the most recent was on the 70-300 non l. If you bought a kit combo you got a discount on the additional lens. I would definately like to see it but its not likely

 

[Marauder]

I can't help but wonder if the 100-400L II will also be announced concurrently with the 7D II. Combining one of the most anticipated cameras with one of the most anticipated lenses would seem to make sense, from a "OMG, OMG, OMG!" sense of excitement, given that a fan of one, is likely to be a fan of the other as well--an "affordable" action camera and an "affordable" long L series telephoto. If so, I'm wondering if it's possible that Canon would have a combo deal on both products. I've never seen them do such a thing, but I'm relatively new to this---bought my first SLR (the T3i,) in 2011, followed by the 7D in 2012. For those of you with more experience in Canon's product line, is this likely, or even remotely probable? I'd love to hear your opinions.

I wouldn't expect any incentives on a new product launch that is going to sell very well. Canon has offered discounts on certain lenses in the past. I think the most recent was on the 70-300 non l. If you bought a kit combo you got a discount on the additional lens. I would definately like to see it but its not likely

Yeah, I was rather afraid that might be the case. It'd be fantastic if they did though!

 

[emag]

Replacement for the 7D? Hey now, that's news.

 

[jiphoto]

I totally agree. I'd love to see dual CFast slots in the 7D II, even if it means I have to buy new cards. I'd be quite happy with 2300x, but 4000x, damn strait...you'd have near-infinite continuous shooting. Not that you would really want to do that...but those times when you hit the buffer limit, and miss that perfect pose because it happens inbetween those 2-3 frame spurts...bah!

It is quite possible that this is the beginning of the end for the compact flash card. It will not be able to compete with cFast for speed and it already can not compete with SD for convenience/versatility.

I'd say how I feel sorry for people with Compact Flash cards.... but I'm one of them... I recently purged my kit of an item that should have been on the "useless accessory" thread... a bunch of 32M compact flash cards... they only had space for 1 picture per card... (Yes, I tried it )

Long time lurker here, first time poster...
I'd add to jrista's observations that the implementation of CFast here is probably not for burst rates anymore, but more for video. As a current 7D owner, and a user of MagicLantern (or whatever it is now... TragicLantern maybe?), the card write speeds are far too slow for RAW video and generally pretty iffy for higher-bitrate H.264, so any card write speed improvements would probably be for video, not photos. Even the 1DX has a buffer that will eventually fill up, and if Canon would try to design any camera to be able to sustain a burst, I'd expect them to work on the 1D series. I certainly wouldn't say no to a sustained burst on a new 7D though!

 

[Rockets95]

Long time lurker here, first time poster...
I'd add to jrista's observations that the implementation of CFast here is probably not for burst rates anymore, but more for video. As a current 7D owner, and a user of MagicLantern (or whatever it is now... TragicLantern maybe?), the card write speeds are far too slow for RAW video and generally pretty iffy for higher-bitrate H.264, so any card write speed improvements would probably be for video, not photos. Even the 1DX has a buffer that will eventually fill up, and if Canon would try to design any camera to be able to sustain a burst, I'd expect them to work on the 1D series. I certainly wouldn't say no to a sustained burst on a new 7D though!

I think you need to start posting, as you seem to know what you are talking about. We can all benefit from your knowledge.

 

[DanielW]

Long time lurker here, first time poster...
I'd add to jrista's observations that the implementation of CFast here is probably not for burst rates anymore, but more for video. As a current 7D owner, and a user of MagicLantern (or whatever it is now... TragicLantern maybe?), the card write speeds are far too slow for RAW video and generally pretty iffy for higher-bitrate H.264, so any card write speed improvements would probably be for video, not photos. Even the 1DX has a buffer that will eventually fill up, and if Canon would try to design any camera to be able to sustain a burst, I'd expect them to work on the 1D series. I certainly wouldn't say no to a sustained burst on a new 7D though!

I think you need to start posting, as you seem to know what you are talking about. We can all benefit from your knowledge.

I agree!

 

[DanielW]

Something just occurred to me now... How likely is it that a new 7D will have many advantages over the current 5D3?
Possible advantages I see (sure many debatable):
- Crop factor for birding, wildlife and sports
- Compatibility with EF-S lenses
- Built-in flash
- Higher burst rate and bigger buffer
- Price
Is that it? I am aware, from reading previous discussions here, that the crop factor is not a huge advantage (if at all), and compatibility with EF-S lenses is probably not relevant. The built-in flash may not even come with the new 7D anymore, and some people even dislike it. Burst rate, well, here I see a difference, but it is not important to me (I understand other folks may need it, though).
Anyway, when the 7D2 finally arrives costing US$ 2,000-2,200 body only (more? less?), how much will a 5D3 be costing? I have just found prices under 2,900 on canonpricewatch.com, and rythercamera.com has the 5D3 for 2,499 right now. Even Canon sells it refurbished for under 2,800.
What do you guys think? Will the 7D2 be worth buying when the price of the 5D3 drops even further? I am not so sure anymore.
Cheers
Daniel

 

[jiphoto]

Long time lurker here, first time poster...
I'd add to jrista's observations that the implementation of CFast here is probably not for burst rates anymore, but more for video. As a current 7D owner, and a user of MagicLantern (or whatever it is now... TragicLantern maybe?), the card write speeds are far too slow for RAW video and generally pretty iffy for higher-bitrate H.264, so any card write speed improvements would probably be for video, not photos. Even the 1DX has a buffer that will eventually fill up, and if Canon would try to design any camera to be able to sustain a burst, I'd expect them to work on the 1D series. I certainly wouldn't say no to a sustained burst on a new 7D though!

I think you need to start posting, as you seem to know what you are talking about. We can all benefit from your knowledge.

I agree!

Thanks for the encouragement, guys! I think I've picked up most of my knowledge from reading these forums (Neuro in particular LOL!), but I'm happy to share!

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Something just occurred to me now... How likely is it that a new 7D will have many advantages over the current 5D3?
Possible advantages I see (sure many debatable):
- Crop factor for birding, wildlife and sports
- Compatibility with EF-S lenses
- Built-in flash
- Higher burst rate and bigger buffer
- Price
Is that it? I am aware, from reading previous discussions here, that the crop factor is not a huge advantage (if at all), and compatibility with EF-S lenses is probably not relevant. The built-in flash may not even come with the new 7D anymore, and some people even dislike it. Burst rate, well, here I see a difference, but it is not important to me (I understand other folks may need it, though).
Anyway, when the 7D2 finally arrives costing US$ 2,000-2,200 body only (more? less?), how much will a 5D3 be costing? I have just found prices under 2,900 on canonpricewatch.com, and rythercamera.com has the 5D3 for 2,499 right now. Even Canon sells it refurbished for under 2,800.
What do you guys think? Will the 7D2 be worth buying when the price of the 5D3 drops even further? I am not so sure anymore.
Cheers
Daniel

I can see some advantages in a future 7D mark ii, over 5D mark iii, but image quality at high ISO should not be one of them. I am an advocate for APS-C, which has real advantages for me. But if you expect a big improvement in high ISO, I recommend going with current full frame cameras. I like the depth of field of APS-C, and the size, weight, and more compact lens, and lower cost. But do not believe in big improvements in high ISO without a revolution happening in image sensor technology.