Eos7D mk2, How EXCITED will you be if . . .?

[StudentOfLight]

Specifications:
16.9 Megapixel (5040 x 3360) DPAF CMOS
11fps (rated to 300,000 cycles)
36 image RAW buffer
41pt AF (all cross-type)
5D-III Menu system
Rate Button (customizable)
CFast 2.0
Built-in Wifi for remote shooting, fie transfers and video
Built-in Speedlite Radio Transmitter

Video Features:
Clean HDMI out
Headphone jack
Live Video Monitoring via Wifi
WXGA proxy recording via Wifi (5m radius)

Video resolutions:
FHD - 1920x1080 at 120p, 60p, 30p, 24p, Timelapse
WXGA - 1280x720 at 120p, 60p, 30p, 24p
FHD-HDR - 1920x1080 at 30p, 24p

Crop-Mode video resolutions:
DCI 4K- 4096x2160 at 30p, 24p, Timelapse (at 1.2xCrop)
1920x1080 (at 2.6xCrop, 1.3xCrop)
1280x720 (at 4xCrop, 2xCrop, 1.3xCrop)

 

[jrista]

[quote author=neuroanatomist]As for sharpness, while it's true that a multilayer sensor wouldn't need the blurring caused by an AA filter to avoid color moiré, that blurring is predictable and thus highly correctable with sharpening in post, so the true gain in sharpness is minor at best.

Not true. "No AA" picture can still be corrected/sharpened better than picture "with AA". Multilayer without AA can be sharpened/"regenerated" even further.

All the practical evidence from people who have two cameras identical other than with, or without AA filter, ie. Nikon D800/800e and Pentax K5II/n (or whatever it's called) is that there is no perceivable difference after applying suitable un-sharp mask.

no AA is still a touch crisper, but also with false 'detail' and more issues
I don't think sensor densities are high enough yet for no AA filter to be wise.
[/quote]

Aye, removal of the AA results in false detail, which really just shows up as harsh noise a lot of the time, aliasing and more at others. I don't know that sensor densities will ever be high enough that we could ever really do away with AA filters. I mean, if the Otus does resolve somewhere in the realm of 400lp/mm wide open, then we would need a bayer sensor capable of resolving over 550mp in order to be able to drop the AA filter. That would be pixel sizes around 1.25µm. Not infeasible from a fabrication standpoint...probably infeasible from a data transfer rate standpoint (the file sizes at 14 bit, assuming around 7% increase in pixel count for masked border pixels, would be about 1.1GB in size, each...the only things that move that much data per second are high powered GPUs and CPUs, both if which require massive amounts of power (even i7 Intel Haswells still draw a lot of power when moving that kind of data per second.)

 

[fotonunta]

Will sell my Canon 6D and buy the new Canon 7D Mark II - better AF points ... but we will see
__________________________________________________________

Foto Nunta Brasov | Fotograf Nunta | Foto video nunta

 

[NancyP]

Will convert the old 60D to a full-spectrum camera....conversion of Canon Rebels costs about 350 bucks if you supply the camera, and the 60D conversion ought to be similar in price.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Latest rumor suggests that the big new sensor tech for 7D2 is all about a radically improved dual pixel AF that will be completely revolutionary but was also 100% silent on any talk of actual image quality improvements (an earlier rumor hinted that the next FF might be the one to focus on also improving IQ). But who knows, these sources may all be garbage.

 

[jrista]

Latest rumor suggests that the big new sensor tech for 7D2 is all about a radically improved dual pixel AF that will be completely revolutionary but was also 100% silent on any talk of actual image quality improvements (an earlier rumor hinted that the next FF might be the one to focus on also improving IQ). But who knows, these sources may all be garbage.

I dunno. I've read the subsequent DPAF patents, and there isn't anything remotely revolutionary in there. Mostly just using different sized photodiodes for the AF part, and a means of increasing sensitivity for AF without reducing IQ. If that's all Canon's got for the 7D II, they are going to take a HUGE reputation hit...and they HAVE to know that... (If they don't, then they've totally lost touch with their customer base, and I am seriously hoping that's not the case.)

 

[that1guyy]

I am almost certain the 7D2 will get the DPAF system but I suspect that's not all that Canon will put in the camera. Like you said, they must know if that's all they're doing they're going to lose the good will of their customers.

Besides DPAF what else can Canon do to make sure customers are satisfied?

1. A new sensor that improves DR, noise, and sharpness. That's a no brainer and judging by recent rumors there is a good chance the 7D2 will have new sensor technology that will make its way to the 5D IV and so on.

2. Faster regular AF system. This camera is well suited for action photographers so an Af system that at least matches the 5D III in both speed and accuracy is an obvious inclusion.

3. Wifi and/or GPS. This seems like one of those things that Canon simply has to do in order check a box off ("we have it now too!"). It's pretty much standard now in other brands.

4. Video features. Hate it or love it video is here to stay on DSLRs. Canon has to protect their cinema line now so we can't expect 4k raw obviously on the 7D ii. However, I have a belief Canon will decide not to cripple the video on the 7D II as they have on the 70D and other cameras. The C300 and C500 are due for updates so I suspect those cameras will introduce much higher specs that will significantly widen the gap between cinema line and DSLR, which allows Canon to give their DSLRs better video functionality.

What will it be? I can only guess but I suspect we will finally see sharp 1080p footage on a Canon. No more mush. We'll get a better codec, such as Prores, possibly 10 bit data, and a better method of down sampling that will get rid of moire and aliasing. I also expect higher frame rates, namely 60p at full HD and 120p at 720p. It is also possibly, though unlikely, we will get 4k recording, probably at 8 bit 4:2:0 if it does happen. Maybe Magic Lantern can work on that in the future!

A camera with similar specs to these will probably make some splashes yet seems within the realm of possibility, and is in line with the rumors.

 

[Loswr]

I dunno. I've read the subsequent DPAF patents, and there isn't anything remotely revolutionary in there. Mostly just using different sized photodiodes for the AF part, and a means of increasing sensitivity for AF without reducing IQ. If that's all Canon's got for the 7D II, they are going to take a HUGE reputation hit...and they HAVE to know that... (If they don't, then they've totally lost touch with their customer base, and I am seriously hoping that's not the case.)

Are you suggesting that the people here are representative of Canon's customer base? I see lots of clamoring for better IQ on forums but until the 70D, the 7D remained a strong seller. I'd bet a 7DII with 41ish AF points and 10 fps, and a 24 MP DPAF sensor similar in IQ to the 70D, would sell quite well.

 

[Don Haines]

I dunno. I've read the subsequent DPAF patents, and there isn't anything remotely revolutionary in there. Mostly just using different sized photodiodes for the AF part, and a means of increasing sensitivity for AF without reducing IQ. If that's all Canon's got for the 7D II, they are going to take a HUGE reputation hit...and they HAVE to know that... (If they don't, then they've totally lost touch with their customer base, and I am seriously hoping that's not the case.)

Are you suggesting that the people here are representative of Canon's customer base? I see lots of clamoring for better IQ on forums but until the 70D, the 7D remained a strong seller. I'd bet a 7DII with 41ish AF points and 10 fps, and a 24 MP DPAF sensor similar in IQ to the 70D, would sell quite well.

Personally, if the 7D2 came with:
7DII with 41ish AF points
10 fps
24 MP DPAF sensor similar in IQ to the 70D, or slightly less pixels and slightly more IQ....
and WiFi/touchscreen

I'd buy one.

Right about now, the biggest thing they can do to improve IQ is to move the A/D onto the sensor, and if they do that plus the above, I'd pre-order it.

 

[unfocused]

I dunno. I've read the subsequent DPAF patents, and there isn't anything remotely revolutionary in there. Mostly just using different sized photodiodes for the AF part, and a means of increasing sensitivity for AF without reducing IQ. If that's all Canon's got for the 7D II, they are going to take a HUGE reputation hit...and they HAVE to know that... (If they don't, then they've totally lost touch with their customer base, and I am seriously hoping that's not the case.)

Are you suggesting that the people here are representative of Canon's customer base? I see lots of clamoring for better IQ on forums but until the 70D, the 7D remained a strong seller. I'd bet a 7DII with 41ish AF points and 10 fps, and a 24 MP DPAF sensor similar in IQ to the 70D, would sell quite well.

Personally, if the 7D2 came with:
7DII with 41ish AF points
10 fps
24 MP DPAF sensor similar in IQ to the 70D, or slightly less pixels and slightly more IQ....
and WiFi/touchscreen

I'd buy one.

Right about now, the biggest thing they can do to improve IQ is to move the A/D onto the sensor, and if they do that plus the above, I'd pre-order it.

Better add f8 autofocus. A 24mp 7D coupled with a new 100-400 f5.6 zoom and a 1.4III converter would be very tempting.

 

[ahsanford]

4. Video features. Hate it or love it video is here to stay on DSLRs. Canon has to protect their cinema line now so we can't expect 4k raw obviously on the 7D ii. However, I have a belief Canon will decide not to cripple the video on the 7D II as they have on the 70D and other cameras. The C300 and C500 are due for updates so I suspect those cameras will introduce much higher specs that will significantly widen the gap between cinema line and DSLR, which allows Canon to give their DSLRs better video functionality.

I think Canon has a delicate line to walk here. I think they will push more 'pro' / top end video options down the line to non-Cinema bodies because they have to to some extent -- competitors without the high-end Cinema rigs in their portfolio will simply take that business from Canon if they don't. Consider:

https://www.slrlounge.com/gh4-sales-roof-panasonic-doubles-production/

So I won't prognosticate the specifics (I keep seeing thousands of wrinkles on formats / speeds / clean output, etc.), but Canon can't leave high-end video out of their non-high-end bodies for too long.

- A

Disclaimer on this opinion: I don't shoot video unless I lost a bet or owe someone a really big favor.

 

[ahsanford]

Better add f8 autofocus. A 24mp 7D coupled with a new 100-400 f5.6 zoom and a 1.4III converter would be very tempting.

Good call. That would be a great add. I'm surprised in a thread about the 'future king of crop', the length-mad 7D user base didn't flag this need sooner.

I'm also surprised no one offered their dream of creating a 4000mm setup with T/Cs, duct tape and love.

- A

 

[NancyP]

I am pretty sure that I mentioned f/8 phase autofocus sometime earlier in this thread, being the owner of a 400mm f/5.6L and a 1.4x TC II. Image quality is still pretty good with the 1.4x TC, and the set-up is so light, it would be worthwhile for BIF if the camera did f/8 phase AF. I haven't made the jump to a Big White yet. I REALLY want better high ISO performance as well.

 

[Lee Jay]

Better add f8 autofocus. A 24mp 7D coupled with a new 100-400 f5.6 zoom and a 1.4III converter would be very tempting.

+1

 

[Lee Jay]

4. Video features. Hate it or love it video is here to stay on DSLRs. Canon has to protect their cinema line now so we can't expect 4k raw obviously on the 7D ii. However, I have a belief Canon will decide not to cripple the video on the 7D II as they have on the 70D and other cameras. The C300 and C500 are due for updates so I suspect those cameras will introduce much higher specs that will significantly widen the gap between cinema line and DSLR, which allows Canon to give their DSLRs better video functionality.

What will it be? I can only guess but I suspect we will finally see sharp 1080p footage on a Canon. No more mush. We'll get a better codec, such as Prores, possibly 10 bit data, and a better method of down sampling that will get rid of moire and aliasing. I also expect higher frame rates, namely 60p at full HD and 120p at 720p. It is also possibly, though unlikely, we will get 4k recording, probably at 8 bit 4:2:0 if it does happen. Maybe Magic Lantern can work on that in the future!

No line skipping seems to be a pretty important thing to include. I'd personally love to see 720p at 120Hz and 640x480 at 240Hz, at least, for high speed modes.

Another thing I'd love is a smooth continuous windowing feature from full-frame down to 1:1 at whatever size you're shooting, possibly with one of those compact-camera-style sliders around the shutter release.

 

[photo212]

I'd thought we'd start the week looking forward to something. What features / performance levels would get you excited about the 7D2?

I want a positive statement from you about what would legitimately fire you up to own a 7D2. No snarky "APS-C is not for me so I'll say 'A 50 MP FF sensor', ha ha" stuff. Seriously, what would get you excited when the 7D2 announcement comes?

- A

Disclaimer: I'm not trying poke fun at Ivan's original thread so much as build some excitement around a release. Mondays need positive thoughts because they are, in fact, Mondays.

<$1800
9+ cross autofocus spots.
>18MP
3-5 fps
Would love to see if Canon integrates in the Magic Lantern's Dual ISO option or their own version of the same.
no wifi, no gps - don't need. don't want to pay for them.
I do want a battery grip - whether integral or screw-on

pretty simple. A small step is all I need to get me to upgrade from my 40D/50D combo. Never thought the 7D was that much improved. Some thought so. I decided to skip a camera, and never in my wildest nightmares did I think it would take this long. Saved a lot of cash over this years.

 

[garyknrd]

I dunno. I've read the subsequent DPAF patents, and there isn't anything remotely revolutionary in there. Mostly just using different sized photodiodes for the AF part, and a means of increasing sensitivity for AF without reducing IQ. If that's all Canon's got for the 7D II, they are going to take a HUGE reputation hit...and they HAVE to know that... (If they don't, then they've totally lost touch with their customer base, and I am seriously hoping that's not the case.)

Are you suggesting that the people here are representative of Canon's customer base? I see lots of clamoring for better IQ on forums but until the 70D, the 7D remained a strong seller. I'd bet a 7DII with 41ish AF points and 10 fps, and a 24 MP DPAF sensor similar in IQ to the 70D, would sell quite well.

Unfortunately, and depressing as it sounds. I agree.
With the quality of glass Canon has. It is just depressing. For the first time in years I am starting to leave my Canon gear at home, and using other brands because of it. But, honestly I know I am in the minority. I love APS-C cameras.

Still got my hopes up though.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/avianphotos
http://www.birdsthatfart.com

 

[noncho]

If we have 70D for base(NO fixed screen):

THE BEST APS-C sensor!
Optimised AF + F8 at all crossed points.
8-10 FPS with large and fast buffer.
Dual SD card slot with latest UHS-3 Support.

- -
Something like EF-S 40-120 2.8
Less than 6D price.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Latest rumor suggests that the big new sensor tech for 7D2 is all about a radically improved dual pixel AF that will be completely revolutionary but was also 100% silent on any talk of actual image quality improvements (an earlier rumor hinted that the next FF might be the one to focus on also improving IQ). But who knows, these sources may all be garbage.

I dunno. I've read the subsequent DPAF patents, and there isn't anything remotely revolutionary in there. Mostly just using different sized photodiodes for the AF part, and a means of increasing sensitivity for AF without reducing IQ. If that's all Canon's got for the 7D II, they are going to take a HUGE reputation hit...and they HAVE to know that... (If they don't, then they've totally lost touch with their customer base, and I am seriously hoping that's not the case.)

Sounded like they were hinting at way upping the speed and making it not focus hunt at all and perform super well for real time tracking and focusing during video.

But who knows.

 

[geonix]

I guess that canon has to move with market on video specs. If Nikon and all others make 1080p 60fps a standard in their cameras canon cannot stay behind. Regardless of any wish to protect their C-Models or any other pro cameras.
With the technological evolution in video to 4k beeing that fast it would be a desaster if the 7D replacement would still offer no better video functions than the 5D III (resolution and fps wise).
Nikon made the move and came out with the D810 because they saw the D800 need an upgrade to remain top level technology.
Canon was once famous for its video capabilities in their DSLRs (namely the 5D III), Nikon, Sony and Panasonic are now not only at level but are already overtaking canon. The GH-4 is a good example.