Everything We’ve Been Told About The Canon EOS R7 Mark II

[Michael Clark]

Sorry. For someone that does leave the house with a camera to take photos of birds, this made me laugh.

They don't even have to own a camera to be counted in that chart.

Any one of the following is sufficient:

Watch birds.
Feed birds.
Photograph birds.
Plant bird friendly flora in their yard or on other property they control.
See a bird and look up what kind of bird it is.

Just one instance during the entire year of any of the above is enough.
They're now officially birders according to the U.S. Government Survey.

 

[AlanF]

They don't even have to own a camera to be counted in that chart.

Any one of the following is sufficient:

Watch birds.
Feed birds.
Photograph birds.
Plant bird friendly flora in their yard or on other property they control.
See a bird and look up what kind of bird it is.

Just one instance during the entire year of any of the above is enough.
They're now officially birders according to the U.S. Government Survey.

You won't see many birders when you are staring through the ovf of a 7Dii pointed at sports jocks.

 

[Dragon]

Yep, I got the maths but it is a massive claim to make and polls can have limitations…. Does the 96m sound right to you?

All of my neighbors have hummingbird feeders and I believe that qualifies under the definition of "birder" that was used, so yes 96M makes sense with that definition. I think the issue here is the photo community prefers to define birder as someone who spent $4k or $5k (or more) on camera equipment to take pictures of birds. I qualify and one neighbor is on the way, but the total count is far less than the 96M. In fairness, the point of the article was that the 96M were possible buyers of camera equipment, not necessarily current owners (smart phones were mentioned) and that makes sense with my neighbor who is on the path with an R10 and a 100-400. BTW, I have 7 feeders out .

 

[SvO2]

DigitalCameraWorld Review of the Canon C50: "Speaking of the sensor, it’s a completely new one that’s been designed specifically for this camera. While it’s not a stacked design, its readout speed is fast enough for the camera to eschew a mechanical shutter entirely. This is evidenced both by the video framerates, which go up to full-width 4K 120p and 2K 180p in HFR mode, as well as the 40fps continuous shooting offered in stills mode."

A video camera with a secondary photo mode is a little bit of a different situation than the other way around. The C50 doesn't support flash sync at all, likely because the readout time is too slow. I don't think that'd really be acceptable for a photo oriented camera.

 

[davisphotog]

I like the mockup picture depicting a full-frame camera instead of an APS-C sensor.

 

[Michael Clark]

You won't see many birders when you are staring through the ovf of a 7Dii pointed at sports jocks.

I shoot a lot more than sports. But sports is where I have put the majority of mileage on my 7D Mark II. For most other things I use my FF bodies, but they don't get near the same number of shutter activations for concerts, theatrical, community events, landscape/travel, or portraits. I've even shot a few birds on occasion. But I've never considered myself a "birder".

 

[Michael Clark]

You won't see many birders when you are staring through the ovf of a 7Dii pointed at sports jocks.

Au contraire, mon frere! According to the Fish & Wildlife survey, one out of every three of those jocks, band nerds, cheerleaders, referees, and fans in the stands are, in fact, also BIRDERS!

 

[AlanF]

Put it this way. If you go to a bar to conduct a survey of what percentage of the population in a locale drinks alcoholic beverages, what to you think the results will be? Will they be representative of the entire population? Including those who would never darken the door of a bar?

Au contraire, mon frere! According to the Fish & Wildlife survey, one out of every three of those jocks, band nerds, cheerleaders, referees, and fans in the stands are, in fact, also BIRDERS!

Put it this way, are your sports jocks, band nerds, cheerleaders, and fans representative of the entire population?

 

[SvO2]

For a deep-dive into the study, including its methodology, you can read the publication at https://www.fws.gov/sites/default/f...onal-Survey_101223-accessible-single-page.pdf .

An addendum specific to birding was published at https://www.fws.gov/sites/default/f...-the-us-demographic-and-economic-analysis.pdf . They also provide a definition of "birder," viz.:

"Who is a birder? The Survey uses a conservative definition. To be counted as a birder, an individual must have either taken a trip one mile or more from home for the primary purpose of observing birds or closely observed or tried to identify birds around the home. Thus, people who happened to notice birds while they were mowing the lawn or picnicking at the beach were not counted as birders. Trips to zoos or observing captive birds did not qualify and were not tallied in the Survey."

Also note that not all birders are photographers. In fact, oftentimes when birding with a group I am the only one with a camera.

Now, back to R7MkII rumors.

Hmm, skimming through that, I am skeptical that paying people to do a mail in survey results in a sample that's representative of the general population. And I don't see the actual questions listed anywhere. I also have a hard time believing that the proportion of bird watchers *decreases* with age.

This also seems like it would skew the numbers higher "The ABS sample allowed for oversampling counties with high hunting participation identified by hunting license lists."

There's also a question of how often people participate. Technically I would be considered a birder by their definition since I have occasionally watched birds from home. But it's not exactly a hobby of mine.

 

[foda]

Hmm, skimming through that, I am skeptical that paying people to do a mail in survey results in a sample that's representative of the general population. And I don't see the actual questions listed anywhere. I also have a hard time believing that the proportion of bird watchers *decreases* with age.

This also seems like it would skew the numbers higher "The ABS sample allowed for oversampling counties with high hunting participation identified by hunting license lists."

There's also a question of how often people participate. Technically I would be considered a birder by their definition since I have occasionally watched birds from home. But it's not exactly a hobby of mine.

I seriously doubt that the $1 incentive included in the original mailing skewed the results in any appreciable way. But since they include the details of their methodology you have that information and are free to draw your own conclusions.

I, too, would "have a hard time believing that the proportion of bird watchers *decreases* with age" when looking at the data:



https://partnerwithapayer.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/2022-Birder-Demogrpahics.png

Perhaps we can start a separate thread to pursue this, and all get back to R7MkII rumors.

 

[SvO2]

I seriously doubt that the $1 incentive included in the original mailing skewed the results in any appreciable way. But since they include the details of their methodology you have that information and are free to draw your own conclusions.

You would be surprised how much bias even a single dollar introduces. And again, they don't include the actual survey questions, nor do they separate people who bird watched at some point in their life vs people who do it regularly as a hobby. Their methodology would consider me a bird watcher even though I myself do not consider myself one. They also openly admit that they oversampled regions that are more likely to have higher rates of people who participate in the hobby. If they openly admit that, it certainly makes me question how else their sampling method might introduce bias. I can't say it's well designed or that the numbers aren't suspect.

The graphs from that larger PDF do not match the one you posted.



You're free to post your own thread. Can't say it'd very useful if you're unwilling to look at the data and discuss flaws in methodology.

 

[foda]

You would be surprised how much bias even a single dollar introduces. And again, they don't include the actual survey questions, nor do they separate people who bird watched at some point in their life vs people who do it regularly as a hobby. Their methodology would consider me a bird watcher even though I myself do not consider myself one. They also openly admit that they oversampled regions that are more likely to have higher rates of people who participate in the hobby. If they openly admit that, it certainly makes me question how else their sampling method might introduce bias. I can't say it's well designed or that the numbers aren't suspect.

The graphs from that larger PDF do not match the one you posted.

View attachment 226275View attachment 226276

You're free to post your own thread. Can't say it'd very useful if you're unwilling to look at the data and discuss flaws in methodology.

The graphs don't match because I posted the data for birding and you posted data for wildlife-watching, of which bird-watching is only a subset.

 

[SvO2]

The graphs don't match because I posted the data for birding and you posted data for wildlife-watching, of which bird-watching is only a subset.

So where's the actual source for your numbers? The larger pdf from the FWS doesn't delineate it into bird watchers vs wildlife in general.

Either way, it does seem to be a survey designed to maximize the numbers rather than reporting something that resembles reality.

I think it would be very interesting to see what percentage of the people that survey classifies as bird watchers would consider themselves to be bird watchers

 

[AlanF]

So where's the actual source for your numbers? The larger pdf from the FWS doesn't delineate it into bird watchers vs wildlife in general.

Either way, it does seem to be a survey designed to maximize the numbers rather than reporting something that resembles reality.

I think it would be very interesting to see what percentage of the people that survey classifies as bird watchers would consider themselves to be bird watchers

Why don't you apologise for making a mistake and posting the wrong graphs?

 

[Planterz]

Or we could actually discuss cameras...

 

[AlanF]

Or we could actually discuss cameras...

As @foda proposed.

 

[ISv]

As @foda proposed.

Best approach! That 37% birders in the USA population is "little" bit exaggeration - may be they included there some of the guys who go after frozen turkeys in known time of the year ?

 

[Dragon]

Clearly a slow news week

 

[Planterz]

The R7 has been nearly perpetually on sale, and now it's lower than ever for Prime Day. Hopefully that's an indication of everybody depleting their stocks in preparation for the R7 II.

 

[Michael Clark]

Best approach! That 37% birders in the USA population is "little" bit exaggeration - may be they included there some of the guys who go after frozen turkeys in known time of the year ?

Someone from the Gub'ment called me and asked if I enjoy watching wild chicks with feathers and taking pictures of them. I said, "I certainly do!"

I think it may have been a trick question to classify me as a bird watcher?