Expect Higher End Products at CP+ in February

[AvTvM]

We will probably see a new Rebel in the next month or two, so that could appear for CP+.

Mega-Yawn! Yet another mirrorflapper Rebel ... yay!

Why not ...

• an upgraded EOS-M3 with (at least!) 70D sensor and the overhyped DPAF-System finally delivering decent AF performance in real life?
• plus a "EOS-M3 Pro" with (at least!) 7D II sensor, "Retina"-EVF, and high-grade DPAF-system matching or besting overall performance of Samsung NX-1? fully tracking-capable AF @ 15fps

Both decently priced? EOS M3 like any run of the mill "rebel DSLR", EOS "M3 Pro" a bit below 7D II - competitive with Fuji X-T1 and Samsung NX-1?

 

[Loswr]

Mega-Yawn! Yet another mirrorflapper Rebel ... yay!

Why not ...

• an upgraded EOS-M3...?
• plus a "EOS-M3 Pro"...?

Perhaps because dSLRs continue to outsell MILCs by a wide margin? Based on published sales data, it's quite probable that sales of Canon Rebel/xxxD dSLRs exceed those of all MILCs on the market from all brands combined.

Why not ...

• sell more units?
• increase revenues and profits?

Perhaps you find such things boring, but they make shareholders of publicly traded companies say ... yay ...and mean it!

 

[J.R.]

I sold my 1DX and all my L primes. Not looking back.

Not looking back?

Seriously, what sort of lunatic comes with ranting posts at CR AFTER selling all his Canon gear?

I keep hearing of guys who break up with their girlfriends but still keep checking their FB profiles to see what is going on in the girl's life ... It's supposed to be a mental condition, get help!

 

[powershot2012]

Darn, there goes that Canonitis again:

Noun/Latin origin - To never go the full step you really need to innovate and take over the market :-\

we are at the point where your choice of lens will have more impact on your photos than the choice of camera body or your choice of manufacturer.

I'd say we have been there for years already. I'd much rather shoot a Rebel DSLR with the best lenses than a 5DIII with a kit lens.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

we are at the point where your choice of lens will have more impact on your photos than the choice of camera body or your choice of manufacturer.

I'd say we have been there for years already. I'd much rather shoot a Rebel DSLR with the best lenses than a 5DIII with a kit lens.

I think so. I'm not saying that a Rebel can do what 1DX can do, but in many situations, high quality lenses make the most difference in image quality that a high quality body.

I can not understand how, in 2015 Canon lens line still has terrible lens like 75-300mm and 28-135mm. :-[ Does a well-informed person would prefer a kit 6D + 75-300 + 28-135 instead of a Rebel T5i + 15-85 + 55-250STM? ???

 

[Loswr]

I can not understand how, in 2015 Canon lens line still has terrible lens like 75-300mm and 28-135mm. :-[ Does a well-informed person would prefer a kit 6D + 75-300 + 28-135 instead of a Rebel T5i + 15-85 + 55-250STM? ???

I can't understand the 28-135 from a consumer perspective – it was the 'cheap' FF kit lens when entry level cameras were full frame because there was no 'd' in front of SLR. It's not a great zoom range for APS-C because it lacks a wide angle FoV. But I'm sure it's cheap for Canon to produce, so they keep it in the lineup.

I do understand the 75-300mm, though. If bet it actually outsells the EF-S 55-250 STM, because it's substantially cheaper ($180 vs. $300 for the 55-250 STM). Plus, 300mm is more than 250mm, so it's 'more for less' and consumers like that. For example, the 75-300 is stocked at my local Target, the 55-250 is not.

 

[Bob Howland]

dSLRs continue to outsell MILCs by a wide margin? Based on published sales data, it's quite probable that sales of Canon Rebel/xxxD dSLRs exceed those of all MILCs on the market from all brands combined.

And how much of the dSLR sales advantage is due to sheer inertia? There are an awful lot of legacy Nikon and Canon lenses out there. Largely ignoring the MILC market certainly works as a short term strategy but I question its viability over the long haul, >3-5 years.

I think the Samsung NX1 is potentially a "game-changer". (Sorry, but I hate that expression.) How are Canon and Nikon going to respond if Samsung introduces an NX1-derivative that has 16MP and a revised/refined user interface and does 25 full resolution frames per second, but loses a stop in high-ISO image quality, compared to the 1Dx and D4s, due to its smaller sensor size? Such a camera may happen later this year.

 

[Dylan777]

dSLRs continue to outsell MILCs by a wide margin? Based on published sales data, it's quite probable that sales of Canon Rebel/xxxD dSLRs exceed those of all MILCs on the market from all brands combined.

And how much of the dSLR sales advantage is due to sheer inertia? There are an awful lot of legacy Nikon and Canon lenses out there. Largely ignoring the MILC market certainly works as a short term strategy but I question its viability over the long haul, >3-5 years.

I think the Samsung NX1 is potentially a "game-changer". (Sorry, but I hate that expression.) How are Canon and Nikon going to respond if Samsung introduces an NX1-derivative that has 16MP and a revised/refined user interface and does 25 full resolution frames per second, but loses a stop in high-ISO image quality, compared to the 1Dx and D4s, due to its smaller sensor size? Such a camera may happen later this year.

Bigger question, where are the lenses?

 

[Loswr]

dSLRs continue to outsell MILCs by a wide margin? Based on published sales data, it's quite probable that sales of Canon Rebel/xxxD dSLRs exceed those of all MILCs on the market from all brands combined.

And how much of the dSLR sales advantage is due to sheer inertia? There are an awful lot of legacy Nikon and Canon lenses out there. Largely ignoring the MILC market certainly works as a short term strategy but I question its viability over the long haul, >3-5 years.

Sales numbers and public statements from Canon and Nikon are consistent with entry-level bodies with kit lenses, suggesting that legacy lenses might not be a huge factor. OTOH, the inertia of public perception (i.e., dSLRs are the higher end product, particularly in North America) may be a big factor.

Canon and Nikon haven't totally ignored the MILC market, but both of their initial forays (EOS M, Nikon 1) were basically flops as far as global sales. I don't know that Sony/Fuji/Oly/Samsung will change that, but Canon and/or Nikon jumping in with both feet could change the significant dSLR sales lead. By that I mean multiple levels of bodies including FF offerings, a robust collection of format-specific lenses (no adapter needed), etc., basically an ecosystem like their dSLR lines. We'll likely see things heading that direction someday, but given current market shares it doesn't seem in Canon's or Nikon's best interests.

I think the Samsung NX1 is potentially a "game-changer". (Sorry, but I hate that expression.) How are Canon and Nikon going to respond if Samsung introduces an NX1-derivative that has 16MP and a revised/refined user interface and does 25 full resolution frames per second, but loses a stop in high-ISO image quality, compared to the 1Dx and D4s, due to its smaller sensor size? Such a camera may happen later this year.

Most likely, Canon and Nikon won't see any need to respond to what amounts to a niche product with a very limited native lens collection.

Edit: maybe they'll respond by suing Samsung for design patent infringement if the camera's corners are too rounded...

 

[Bob Howland]

Bigger question, where are the lenses?

Or even a Fuji-style lens road map, updated regularly as design decisions are finalized and with the lenses actually introduced when they are promised?

 

[scyrene]

Face it folks.

Someone at the very top of the Canon food chain decided, literally years ago, to stick with big old bodies and crappy handhelds. So this is what we get as announcements.

Like GM decades ago - they focused upon the wrong products and ignored the nimble little imports being purchased like snacks.

Mirrorless = subcompacts.

Canon is facing a total fail and too full of hubris to admit it.

I sold my 1DX and all my L primes. Not looking back. enjoy your PowerShots and shoulder killing full size units.

chmod

I still carry my RX1 here and there. Yes it's light weight and small.

However when my 6yrs competing in indoor swimming, my 1DX + 400mm f2.8 IS II or 200mm f2 IS are my weapons. With all cameras in today market, there is no other cameras can beat the 1DX. The world is not perfect, therefore, there is no perfect camera for everyone. Buy the ones that fit you best

Quite so. Clearly someone interesting in weight and inconspicuousness will choose a small, light camera. But as someone whose favourite subject is birds, no mirrorless can yet come close to a 1Dx. PS my shoulders are still very much alive

 

[Bob Howland]

dSLRs continue to outsell MILCs by a wide margin? Based on published sales data, it's quite probable that sales of Canon Rebel/xxxD dSLRs exceed those of all MILCs on the market from all brands combined.

And how much of the dSLR sales advantage is due to sheer inertia? There are an awful lot of legacy Nikon and Canon lenses out there. Largely ignoring the MILC market certainly works as a short term strategy but I question its viability over the long haul, >3-5 years.

Sales numbers and public statements from Canon and Nikon are consistent with entry-level bodies with kit lenses, suggesting that legacy lenses might not be a huge factor. OTOH, the inertia of public perception (i.e., dSLRs are the higher end product, particularly in North America) may be a big factor.

Canon and Nikon haven't totally ignored the MILC market, but both of their initial forays (EOS M, Nikon 1) were basically flops as far as global sales. I don't know that Sony/Fuji/Oly/Samsung will change that, but Canon and/or Nikon jumping in with both feet could change the significant dSLR sales lead. By that I mean multiple levels of bodies including FF offerings, a robust collection of format-specific lenses (no adapter needed), etc., basically an ecosystem like their dSLR lines. We'll likely see things heading that direction someday, but given current market shares it doesn't seem in Canon's or Nikon's best interests.

I think the Samsung NX1 is potentially a "game-changer". (Sorry, but I hate that expression.) How are Canon and Nikon going to respond if Samsung introduces an NX1-derivative that has 16MP and a revised/refined user interface and does 25 full resolution frames per second, but loses a stop in high-ISO image quality, compared to the 1Dx and D4s, due to its smaller sensor size? Such a camera may happen later this year.

Most likely, Canon and Nikon won't see any need to respond to what amounts to a niche product with a very limited native lens collection.

"Barriers to Entry"

 

[Loswr]

Canon is facing a total fail and too full of hubris to admit it.

YAPODFC. :

I sold my 1DX and all my L primes. Not looking back. enjoy your PowerShots and shoulder killing full size units.

However when my 6yrs competing in indoor swimming, my 1DX + 400mm f2.8 IS II or 200mm f2 IS are my weapons. With all cameras in today market, there is no other cameras can beat the 1DX.

Quite so. Clearly someone interesting in weight and inconspicuousness will choose a small, light camera. But as someone whose favourite subject is birds, no mirrorless can yet come close to a 1Dx. PS my shoulders are still very much alive

+1

1D X + 600mm lens = big and heavy
MILC + 600mm lens = big and heavy and sacrificing performance

I know which I prefer...

 

[Orangutan]

Canon is facing a total fail and too full of hubris to admit it.

I sold my 1DX and all my L primes. Not looking back. enjoy your PowerShots and shoulder killing full size units.

This is a classic logical fallacy(*): you're assuming that your needs/wants are representative of the overall market. Canon, so far, seems to be better at catering to the overall market than its competitors. I would love to see better tech in Canon gear, but until the competition steps up and takes away market share...

(*) This is a version of the Availability Heuristic/Fallacy, relying on a single data point (yourself), or a small set of data points (people you know or heard about) to extrapolate to the overall reality. It's self-deceptive.

 

[mackguyver]

Canon is facing a total fail and too full of hubris to admit it.

I sold my 1DX and all my L primes. Not looking back. enjoy your PowerShots and shoulder killing full size units.

Two torn rotator cuffs, three herniated cervical discs, and two worn-out knees can't keep me away from my 1D X and white lenses ;D.

Street shooters can have fun with their little EVIL/MILCs, but that's not what I shoot, and cheating physics makes for fun debate, but doesn't translate well into reality...

None of the injuries have anything to do with my photography, BTW.

 

[BozillaNZ]

I dusted my Panasonic GX1 (m43) and gave it a go again this morning, after 1 hour walk with the little camera in my hand, I had hand cramps :'( :'( :'(

I was going to buy the LX100 but after this I'm not so sure.

Those girly small cameras are better left to the wives.

 

[lintoni]

I dusted my Panasonic GX1 (m43) and gave it a go again this morning, after 1 hour walk with the little camera in my hand, I had hand cramps :'( :'( :'(

I was going to buy the LX100 but after this I'm not so sure.

Those girly small cameras are better left to the wives.

 

[Tugela]

dSLRs continue to outsell MILCs by a wide margin? Based on published sales data, it's quite probable that sales of Canon Rebel/xxxD dSLRs exceed those of all MILCs on the market from all brands combined.

And how much of the dSLR sales advantage is due to sheer inertia? There are an awful lot of legacy Nikon and Canon lenses out there. Largely ignoring the MILC market certainly works as a short term strategy but I question its viability over the long haul, >3-5 years.

I think the Samsung NX1 is potentially a "game-changer". (Sorry, but I hate that expression.) How are Canon and Nikon going to respond if Samsung introduces an NX1-derivative that has 16MP and a revised/refined user interface and does 25 full resolution frames per second, but loses a stop in high-ISO image quality, compared to the 1Dx and D4s, due to its smaller sensor size? Such a camera may happen later this year.

Bigger question, where are the lenses?

The average Canon DSLR owner has one lens. Even enthusiasts generally only have a few, in focal ranges covered by most manufacturers. Lens selection is not an issue for 99.9% of buyers. Having a catalog of a 100 lenses means nothing if almost everyone only uses a selection of about half a dozen of those.

 

[Tugela]

dSLRs continue to outsell MILCs by a wide margin? Based on published sales data, it's quite probable that sales of Canon Rebel/xxxD dSLRs exceed those of all MILCs on the market from all brands combined.

And how much of the dSLR sales advantage is due to sheer inertia? There are an awful lot of legacy Nikon and Canon lenses out there. Largely ignoring the MILC market certainly works as a short term strategy but I question its viability over the long haul, >3-5 years.

Sales numbers and public statements from Canon and Nikon are consistent with entry-level bodies with kit lenses, suggesting that legacy lenses might not be a huge factor. OTOH, the inertia of public perception (i.e., dSLRs are the higher end product, particularly in North America) may be a big factor.

Canon and Nikon haven't totally ignored the MILC market, but both of their initial forays (EOS M, Nikon 1) were basically flops as far as global sales. I don't know that Sony/Fuji/Oly/Samsung will change that, but Canon and/or Nikon jumping in with both feet could change the significant dSLR sales lead. By that I mean multiple levels of bodies including FF offerings, a robust collection of format-specific lenses (no adapter needed), etc., basically an ecosystem like their dSLR lines. We'll likely see things heading that direction someday, but given current market shares it doesn't seem in Canon's or Nikon's best interests.

I think the Samsung NX1 is potentially a "game-changer". (Sorry, but I hate that expression.) How are Canon and Nikon going to respond if Samsung introduces an NX1-derivative that has 16MP and a revised/refined user interface and does 25 full resolution frames per second, but loses a stop in high-ISO image quality, compared to the 1Dx and D4s, due to its smaller sensor size? Such a camera may happen later this year.

Most likely, Canon and Nikon won't see any need to respond to what amounts to a niche product with a very limited native lens collection.

Edit: maybe they'll respond by suing Samsung for design patent infringement if the camera's corners are too rounded...

People who buy most of those DSLRs don't know anything about cameras and the qualities of various models. They shop based on the brand label on the front, that is all. Large sales numbers does not mean that the product is better, it just means that brand recognition is better.

 

[Oldcracker]

we are at the point where your choice of lens will have more impact on your photos than the choice of camera body or your choice of manufacturer.

I'd say we have been there for years already. I'd much rather shoot a Rebel DSLR with the best lenses than a 5DIII with a kit lens.

Agree wholeheartedly. Don makes a great point, but I'd say we've been there for long periods twice. First after the advancements in in-body metering during the film days surrounding the Nikon F2 series, and then after the beginnings of the migration to digital and the introduction of the 5D and then 5DII.