Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?

[pwp]

I shoot 1D IV which for my work is the finest camera I have ever had the pleasure to work with. My first 1-Series was an EOS 1n film body which just knocked my socks off, then the original 1Ds and I've since travelled the upgrade path, though fortunately and kind of accidentally sidestepping the 1D3 along the way.

1-Series cameras just rock. I loved the description of them feeling like they were carved out of a solid lump of Unobtanium. In dynamic shooting situations the performance and handling helps me deliver shots I would have previously thought impossible to achieve. The ultra responsiveness, configurable 45 point AF, weather sealing and highly evolved ergonomics put 1-Series Canons in a class of their own. There is a big price premium but for my style of work it's worth every single penny. The 1D IV just keeps delivering personally satisfying images to very happy clients. It simply wouldn't happen in the same way with a 5DII.

I've test driven 5DII and was extremely impressed with the files, but the handling and performance just didn't cut it for me. If I did slower more considered work, I'd buy a 5DII in a heartbeat.

It's whatever floats your boat. If a 60D delivers the shots you need, then that's the Canon for you.

For me it's 1-Series all the way. My order for the X was placed the day the specs were announced.

Paul Wright

 

[Loswr]

Well... neuro did ask for those opinions along with a smattering of a slam against those expressing opinions that may not intend to buy one. He could have left out the whole Ferrari/Camry thing of course it would be less fun if he did.

Which was the point of the analogy, and bear in mind, it was written by someone who drives a 5 year old Subaru Outback, thinks a Camry is just fine but wanted more cargo room, and can't really understand why anyone would need a Ferrrari to get from point A to point B. But then, I'm perfectly ok with someone 'needing' a 1-series to take pictures.

Aldvan summed it up rather nicely. Yes, I'm in the market for a 1D X, and regardless, Canon is getting at least $6.8K of my money one way or another (either a 1D X or a supertele prime), and yes, I'm serious about that and have cash in hand (well, in a safe, to be honest) to cover a 1D X, just waiting for the preorder to go up on B&H. Yes, I have lots of opinions about the 1D X, as do many people who own 5DII's, 7D's, xxD's, xxxD's, and even P&S cameras - and those opinions are all valid.

But the point is that if Canon were going to listen to customers' input in designing the next 1-series, they shouldn't be paying much attention to me or anyone else who doesn't own a 1-series body, but rather, to the customers who've demonstrated that they are 1-series customers, unequivocally - i.e. by owning one already. So, the idea of the thread is to canvas the opinions of those people on how well Canon actual listened, and how well the announced camera will meet their needs.

So far, opinions are split, consistent with the axiom that you can't please all of the people all of the time. But there are some interesting observations that I haven't read in the other threads on this issue, quite likely because they are issues that may not occur most people who don't have practical experience with 1-series bodies, e.g. ricker's comment on dual CF cards and the loss of Eye-Fi support (but, ricker - would an Eye-Fi-supporting SD to CF adapter solve that issue?).

Thanks to all the 1-series owners who've offered their opinions so far - I appreciate the input, and hope others do as well. More viewpoints are certainly welcome and appreciated!

 

[wockawocka]

Until I owned a 1D body I had a 5D2. I always looked at the 1D bodies from the eyes of someone whose camera was amazing as it was and I 'could see' what the benefits were and as such was unfairly critical of that line.

Then I bought one and it made the 5D2 like a toy in comparison.

 

[macfly]

More viewpoints are certainly welcome and appreciated!

As a 20 year EOS veteran, a published photographer and a CPS member since that program started I can tell you that nobody at Canon ever stepped forward to ask my opinion on what the next OS should be. I have no idea where they get their market research, but it would be nice if they actually asked us what we'd like. I love the EOS form factor, but I won't but a 1Dx simply because it doesn't do what I need or want. I want a ~45mp sensor that has incredible 645 beating quaility as 100iso. I always light my subjects, so don't care about high iso, a useable max 1600 is just fine for me.

 

[awinphoto]

More viewpoints are certainly welcome and appreciated!

As a 20 year EOS veteran, a published photographer and a CPS member since that program started I can tell you that nobody at Canon ever stepped forward to ask my opinion on what the next OS should be. I have no idea where they get their market research, but it would be nice if they actually asked us what we'd like. I love the EOS form factor, but I won't but a 1Dx simply because it doesn't do what I need or want. I want a ~45mp sensor that has incredible 645 beating quaility as 100iso. I always light my subjects, so don't care about high iso, a useable max 1600 is just fine for me.

I understand where you're coming from... Like you, I've been using the EOS system for almost 15 years or so give or take, published and had my photography shown on TV and the Olympics, and a CPS member. I have received a few different surveys from canon asking what I was in the market to buy, my opinions or whatever... I get them maybe once ever 6-12 months or so. I dont know if they come from Canon CPS or some other marketing dept but it is what it is... While I would have liked to see a better (higher MP) sensor in the 1dx, this camera isn't one I'd be buying. While I like using the best gear I can afford, I'm a minimalist at heart and had beaten into me since young the concept of needing vs wanting... I want to buy a 1dx (or 1d series in general) but I dont need it for my clients and my work so I get by with what I can.

I second neuros thoughts about those who complain about the 1dx being those who are not really in the market for a 1d camera but worries about what it could mean towards other "lower" cameras... Until I see directly how other cameras get affected (when the 5d3 and 70D and 7D2 comes out), I wont lose one minute of sleep worrying.

 

[pwp]

For goodness sake...it's horses for courses.

If your photographic needs are fully satisfied with an iPhone 4S, then that's perfect.

If a 500D gives you that "OMG this is amazing" response then you have bought the right camera.

If like me you value ultra performance in dynamic shooting situations, using high iso's to their practical limits and so on, then 1-Series EOS is a no brainer. My MkIV definately gives me that "OMG this is amazing" response on almost a daily basis, the proceeds of which feed the family, puts the kids through school and gives me a lifestyle that I once only dreamed about.

If you need 40 plus Mp and silky magnificent files at 100iso then look to medium format. There's some brilliant kit out there, and the prices are quickly becoming more competitive.

One Canon body simply cannot be all things to all people, but 1Ds3, 1DMkIV and without doubt the big X dude definitely tick a lot of boxes.

Paul Wright

 

[rocketdesigner]

I don't think that asking just for opinions from people already owning a 1D series is a matter of elitism.

...and neither do I, in that context.

But to start a thread that assigns qualifications for contributors based on who can afford high end equipment from those who can't -- which is what this individual did -- is elitist and discriminatory.

 

[100]

But to start a thread that assigns qualifications for contributors based on who can afford high end equipment from those who can't -- which is what this individual did -- is elitist and discriminatory.

English is not my native language, so maybe I'm missing something, but I just hear someone (neuroanatomist) saying, hey, we heard the crowd and they're in title to their layman opinion, but I like hear what the experts (as far as 1D or 1Ds) are thinking about the new tool. That’s not “elitist and discriminatory” where I live.

 

[Loswr]

But to start a thread that assigns qualifications for contributors based on who can afford high end equipment from those who can't -- which is what this individual did -- is elitist and discriminatory.

I'm sorry you feel that way - the intent of the Camry/Ferrari analogy was humor, not elitism, and I apologize for offending you.

But the question was honest and the limitation was intentional. If I was interested in a T3i, would it not be legitimate to ask the opinion of owners of that particular body? Why are some reviews on B&H marked 'verified buyer'? I presume because that lends credence to the review. Given that the 1D X hasn't been released yet, owners/users of 1-series cameras would seem the closest approximation.

Probably I should have more clearly specified users, not owners, since a camera could as easily be studio owned.

But hopefully you can appreciate the difference in perspective. For someone who doesn't own a 1-series, the 1D X is an upgrade almost no matter what (ignoring the obvious 3 MP drop from the 5DII's sensor), so it becomes about how well the 1D X stacks up against an imaginary ideal. For a current 1-series, the perspective, I hope, would be closer to how the 1D X stacks up from a more practical standpoint, compared to current needs met (or not) by the 1-series.

Note that while I've offered opinions on the 1D X in many other threads, I haven't done so here - I don't meet my own qualifications.

 

[RexGRP]

What I'd like to see in this impressive 1-DX is a quieter camera. I use 1-D MK ll bodies for newspaper work and I can't get over how freaking LOUD the cameras are. The noise from the shutter is really obnoxious.

I'm thrilled limiting the sensor to 18 mp results in ( hopefully ) clean, very high ISO. I'm sure Canon will manufacture a super-high mp body for those who don't need speed.

I'll be looking for better flash metering, improved color, and advances in off-center AF tracking.

Sure wish I could order the camera without video for $1000 less. Asking the boss to spend $13,600 on a couple bodies for one photographer is a challenge.

 

[Meh]

But to start a thread that assigns qualifications for contributors based on who can afford high end equipment from those who can't -- which is what this individual did -- is elitist and discriminatory.

English is not my native language, so maybe I'm missing something, but I just hear someone (neuroanatomist) saying, hey, we heard the crowd and they're in title to their layman opinion, but I like hear what the experts (as far as 1D or 1Ds) are thinking about the new tool. That’s not “elitist and discriminatory” where I live.

This issue that drew complaints was not the request for comments from 1-series owners/users. That was a great topic that neuro started. The part that drew complaints was the Camry analogy that implied (although probably not what neuro intended, he has since said it was an attempt at humour) that most of the members commenting on the 1DX up to that point had never used a 1-series body and probably wouldn't ever buy a 1DX because they couldn't afford it even if they wanted to. It came across as elitist because everyone knows neuro can afford a 1DX and will be getting one as soon as it's available. Most of us will just stare dreamily at it in the window until the kids are done college (or drop out and we liquidate their college fund).

It was an attempt at humour and we've all said things that came out wrong or were interpreted in ways that were not intended. Neuro's comments and all the sharing of knowledge from testing lenses, micro-adjusting every lens and sharing his experience, and proving us wrong with tack sharp images from lenses we complain about are valuable contributions to the forum. So he has lot's of credit stored up to be forgiven for the odd failed humour... even Seinfeld bombed every now and then.

And thanks to all the 1-series users who have contributed their comments. Appreciated by everyone I'm sure.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I have owned a 1D MK II and a 1D MK III. I skipped the 1D MK IV because I wanted even better low light performance than my 5D MK II gives, and the MK IV doesn't do that.

The other thing I liked about the 1D series was the 1.3 crop, and the abiliity t0 AF with a TC resulting in a f/8 lens.

As far as FF goes, 18mp is enough as long as I get good low liight performance, but I will still want a crop camera for long telephoto shots, and thats a bit disappointing.

I was looking to pre order one at Adorama this morning, but they were not yet setup.

 

[macfly]

If you need 40 plus Mp and silky magnificent files at 100iso then look to medium format. There's some brilliant kit out there, and the prices are quickly becoming more competitive.

That isn't really the point, I use MF cameras for most jobs, (today I tried the new Phase One Mamiya 645 with the leaf shutter lenses & 80mp back for the first time - amazing!) but they all require a team to run, and are slow to operate. Also I'd never take one away for the weekend.

I absolutley love the speed and ease of handling of the EOS, it gives me a freedom none of the medium formats can come close to, and allows me to catch those magic moments with far great accuracy. What I'd love is the ability to catch those moments at ~45mp.

What else do I need, can I plead for?

4-5fps, minimum of a 25 frame buffer, clean 1600iso and I'd be in heaven.

I'll happily pay 10-12k for that, because thats what it's worth to me.

 

[Tayvin]

I'm glad Canon is trying to compete with Nikon in the sports world, but have they given up on the 100ISO shooters? I would love to see Canon announce a FF camera without an anti-aliasing filter and with a chip that can ACTUALLY support the high megapixels without compromising image quality. Am I asking for too much in this prosumer world?

 

[michaelbinary]

What is it with all these people wanted APS sensors because they give a "cropped" image. ??
A given lens on an APS or a full frame body will produce form an identical image on whatever sensor is at the focal plane. The images are identical. period. Its just that the APS sensor will record less of the image than a FF sensor would.

So take the FF image and crop it in PS to whatever size you want. You will still end up with a better APS sized image than an APS sized sensor would give you.

 

[Edwin Herdman]

I bet many of those individuals were hoping, secretly or openly, for a camera with everything (FF, ultrahigh MP, superfast fps, excellent AF, top build) costing only slightly more than the 5DII. Or they were hoping for features in the 1-series that would obviously trickle down into lesser bodies.

As it turns out, an attempt to discredit most of those who argued against the camera specs (for right or wrong) ahead of time ends up eliciting more of the same reasons given before. Hope you got what you were looking for, but I don't think there's anything new here.

 

[J. McCabe]

What is it with all these people wanted APS sensors because they give a "cropped" image. ??
A given lens on an APS or a full frame body will produce form an identical image on whatever sensor is at the focal plane. The images are identical. period. Its just that the APS sensor will record less of the image than a FF sensor would.

So take the FF image and crop it in PS to whatever size you want. You will still end up with a better APS sized image than an APS sized sensor would give you.

It's not the sensor size they care about, but the number of pixels.

E.g. Crop a 5Dmk2 photo to APS-C size, you'll get about 8MP, as many as available on an EOS 20D and less than 1/2 those available on a 60D.

 

[Cannon Man]

If you need 40 plus Mp and silky magnificent files at 100iso then look to medium format. There's some brilliant kit out there, and the prices are quickly becoming more competitive.

That isn't really the point, I use MF cameras for most jobs, (today I tried the new Phase One Mamiya 645 with the leaf shutter lenses & 80mp back for the first time - amazing!) but they all require a team to run, and are slow to operate. Also I'd never take one away for the weekend.

I absolutley love the speed and ease of handling of the EOS, it gives me a freedom none of the medium formats can come close to, and allows me to catch those magic moments with far great accuracy. What I'd love is the ability to catch those moments at ~45mp.

What else do I need, can I plead for?

4-5fps, minimum of a 25 frame buffer, clean 1600iso and I'd be in heaven.

I'll happily pay 10-12k for that, because thats what it's worth to me.

Excactly what my wishes are also about an eos-1camera! I do studio work but im also a travel photographer and i wish there was one camera that could do it all. and i love the weather sealed eos-1 bodies, the reliability, durability, excellent ergonomics.

I am a user of two 1D Mark IV bodies and most certainly will buy the 1DX but i place hope in Canon to make a ~40MP camera in year or two..

 

[awinphoto]

So take the FF image and crop it in PS to whatever size you want. You will still end up with a better APS sized image than an APS sized sensor would give you.

Crop sensors have their place in the world as well... If you take a 21mp full frame photo, crop it down to 8 mp (the average size comparable to a crop camera) and compare that image or even up size to a 18mp 7D image or even better take a 7D image and downsize it to the cropped 21mp photo, the 7D photo would come out smelling like a rose... The 7D cant hold a candle to the full frame full raw photo vs full raw photo, but there are it's advantages and disadvantages... Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad.

 

[distant.star]

Thanks, Big Brain. Your first-rate question has provided a lot of fascinating reading, as it should. Sorry you've had to endure off-topic niggling from the thin-skinned among us.

Although I'd not consider myself a 1-series shooter, I do have a 1V. It's without peer in a lot of ways, although I just use it when I want to go relive the old film days.

As for the new 1D-X, I'd never commit to a $7K purchase without a lot more information and the benefit of experience from others. I suspect it may be a nearly quantum leap ahead in a lot of ways, but I'd want to see first. While Canon has good credibility, all we really have at this point is their informed wish list.

Thanks for all the good stuff you bring to this forum, Brain. I appreciate you a lot!