FF Mirrorless Needed in 2018 -- A7-III changed the segment !

[hmatthes]

As a 30 year Canon EOS "fan boy", member of CPS, advocate for full frame -- The other guys have given us one helluva challenge: The A7-III (due April 10th)

Priced like a 6D-II, performs better than anything Canon sells (well, I've never shot 1Dx), they finally have me tempted.

CPS loaned me a M5 which I found very lacking compared to the user interface and performance of EOS.

We are behind in sensors (My Leica Q out resolves my 6D), woefully behind in autofocus of action, and our feature set is below others price-for-price.

The latest Metabones Adapter (Mark-V) makes all of my Canon glass sing on a Sony. So for $2,500 I could have a far better sensor for my Canon glass and they would all focus better.

I never thought that I would think seriously about leaving...

 

[Loswr]

It may have changed the segment in your mind, but as yet there is no evidence it has changed the market segment. Canon really only cares about the latter.

 

[slclick]

Wait? Are you telling me Canon is doomed?

 

[BillB]

As a 30 year Canon EOS "fan boy", member of CPS, advocate for full frame -- The other guys have given us one helluva challenge: The A7-III (due April 10th)

Priced like a 6D-II, performs better than anything Canon sells (well, I've never shot 1Dx), they finally have me tempted.

CPS loaned me a M5 which I found very lacking compared to the user interface and performance of EOS.

We are behind in sensors (My Leica Q suit resolves my 6D), woefully behind in autofocus of action, and our feature set is below others price-for-price.

The latest Metabones Adapter (Mark-V) makes all of my Canon glass sing on a Sony. So for $2,500 I could have a far better sensor for my Canon glass and they would all focus better.

I never thought that I would think seriously about leaving...

Maybe the place to start would be by asking yourself how your current equipment limits the quality of your photography, and then ask what you hope to achieve with new equipment. Then there are the questions of whether the new equipment will actually do what you think it will, and how much you are willing to spend.

 

[Ozarker]

Please just switch brands. Whatever the reason, just switch. I switched from Ford to Hyundai last week. Nobody cared, but forgot to go on a Ford forum and berate Ford. Rats! I'm a much better driver behind the wheel of a Hyundai.

Wait! You've already switched? I thought you were waiting on the April release of the A7 III? Has the Sony guerrilla marketing team really stooped this low?

As a 30 year Canon EOS "fan boy", member of CPS, advocate for full frame -- The other guys have given us one helluva challenge: The A7-III (due April 10th)

The latest Metabones Adapter (Mark-V) makes all of my Canon glass sing on a Sony. So for $2,500 I could have a far better sensor for my Canon glass and they would all focus better.

Mirrorless?
Hell Yes I Want One -- IF:
It natively uses my EF glass

Leave Canon for another system - Never.
Use my EF glass on a EOS mirrorless 5D/6D - Nirvana!

What a difference a year makes. Not knocking your decision, just the drama. Enjoy your new camera.

BTW: Shouldn't your $4,000 Leica Q out do your 6D?

 

[dak723]

As a 30 year Canon EOS "fan boy", member of CPS, advocate for full frame -- The other guys have given us one helluva challenge: The A7-III (due April 10th)

Priced like a 6D-II, performs better than anything Canon sells (well, I've never shot 1Dx), they finally have me tempted.

CPS loaned me a M5 which I found very lacking compared to the user interface and performance of EOS.

We are behind in sensors (My Leica Q suit resolves my 6D), woefully behind in autofocus of action, and our feature set is below others price-for-price.

The latest Metabones Adapter (Mark-V) makes all of my Canon glass sing on a Sony. So for $2,500 I could have a far better sensor for my Canon glass and they would all focus better.

I never thought that I would think seriously about leaving...

If you believe all you have written, then what are you waiting for? Go buy the Sony! And enjoy it!

If you have written the above because you want to complain, you will get no sympathy (or agreement) from me. Having tried the A7 II, for my photography it was no better than the 6D I owned in any way. But that was my photography, and yours is obviously different if you have come to conclusion that Canon "is way behind in sensors." If you tried the M5 and found it "very lacking," I would not agree as I own one and find it very easy and fun to use. Yes, it is not a "pro-level" camera nor is it supposed to be for under $1,000.

If "performs better than anything Canon sells" includes ergonomics, then I would disagree. If "performs better than anything Canon sells" includes color, then again, not in my opinion. I don't do any action photography, but have never heard that Sony is better at tracking focus, but if you think it is, by all means what are you waiting for? Since you have tried the metabones adapter and find it works great for you, you would be foolish not to buy the Son. So, why do you hesitate and start a thread on the forum? What purpose does that serve you exactly?

Go get your new Sony and enjoy!

 

[hmatthes]

I am still here because Canon has treated me very well for many years. Canon has the best glass. Canon has the best user experience. Canon has a wide range of compatible camera bodies. I use a SL1 as backup when traveling.
My point is that I am truly begging Canon to accelerate the release of a FF EOS.
I’m not “flaming” and I have not jumped ship.
Merely a disappointed loyalist who does examine alternatives.

 

[Orangutan]

I am still here because Canon has treated me very well for many years. Canon has the best glass. Canon has the best user experience. Canon has a wide range of compatible camera bodies. I use a SL1 as backup when traveling.
My point is that I am truly begging Canon to accelerate the release of a FF EOS.
I’m not “flaming” and I have not jumped ship.
Merely a disappointed loyalist who does examine alternatives.

This is just how "the market" works. Right now, it's only people with special requirements who demand FF mirrorless. Over time, the broader market at each segment may start to demand them as well. In the early part of the transition maybe a few photographers switch outright, while others buy the new tech as part of their kit, and keep "old reliable" close at hand. At some point, both new purchasers and longtime owners may find the new tech is adequate for all needs, and sales for the "old reliable" fall off. There will be a transition curve over time, and it will be driven by the aggregate purchasing decisions of the entire market, not by special needs.

It is a major error to assume that your specific needs are representative of the entire market, or any segment of it. (that includes you, AvTvM ). You can bet that Canon is watching the market, but you shouldn't expect a FF mirrorless to be the 5D5, it's much more likely that it will be something like a 6D, where there's less expectation of perfection and total reliability.

Sorry, that's the best I can do. If you can't wait, buy yourself an A73 and metabones adapter to soothe your hunger pangs.

 

[Graphic.Artifacts]

Within a year Canon will be selling APS-C mirror-less cameras for well under $1000 that will meet the needs of 99% of users who wish to own an ILC in addition to their smartphones. This will completely cut Sony off from the entry level market just as their Canon's Rebels own the DSLR market. Canon knows you build a market from the bottom up not the top down. Sony's expensive toys will be left gasping for air in a shrinking market.

Canon uses the less demanding entry level market to hone their tech and marketing and will release higher performing cameras as the market and technology become available to support them. In the mean time they expand their already dominant line of lenses.

Canon is teaching a Master's Class in market development and every day I read posts by uniformed people who imagine they are losing or behind. Stupid Canon indeed. In the not too distant future I expect to read a post that begins with "remember when Sony made camera's?"

 

[unfocused]

Let me see if I’ve got this right.

Canon has to hurry and release a full frame mirror less camera or you (one customer) are going to buy a Sony which has not been released yet.

You are shocked, shocked that your six year old entry-level 6D doesn’t have as good of a sensor as a yet-to-be released camera. And you are shocked that your six year old 6D doesn’t have a sensor as good as a $4,500 Leica.

 

[slclick]

I am still here because Canon has treated me very well for many years. Canon has the best glass. Canon has the best user experience. Canon has a wide range of compatible camera bodies. I use a SL1 as backup when traveling.
My point is that I am truly begging Canon to accelerate the release of a FF EOS.
I’m not “flaming” and I have not jumped ship.
Merely a disappointed loyalist who does examine alternatives.

No, you were not in the top level quote, I meant it for someone else.

 

[sanj]

I find it funny and weird that someone nicely discusses new technology or brand in a technical forum like this and people pounce on him as if he has committed a crime.

Chill pill!!!

 

[jolyonralph]

I find it funny and weird that someone nicely discusses new technology or brand in a technical forum like this and people pounce on him as if he has committed a crime.

Chill pill!!!

There are a lot of people who support Canon as if it were their favourite sports team. For me, I use Canon because I'm used to it and i have a large number of Canon lenses. If I had bought a Nikon film camera back in 1995 instead of a Canon EOS then I'd probably now be shooting Nikon and be perfectly happy with it.

Whatever we shoot with we're all photographers. Let's keep things civil, and let's comment to these threads with fair and balanced comments rather than attacking posters with ridicule and insulting memes. That is not what I am here for, and it doesn't reflect nicely on the community here.

 

[Talys]

I find it funny and weird that someone nicely discusses new technology or brand in a technical forum like this and people pounce on him as if he has committed a crime.

Chill pill!!!

There are a lot of people who support Canon as if it were their favourite sports team. For me, I use Canon because I'm used to it and i have a large number of Canon lenses. If I had bought a Nikon film camera back in 1995 instead of a Canon EOS then I'd probably now be shooting Nikon and be perfectly happy with it.

Whatever we shoot with we're all photographers. Let's keep things civil, and let's comment to these threads with fair and balanced comments rather than attacking posters with ridicule and insulting memes. That is not what I am here for, and it doesn't reflect nicely on the community here.

There are a lot of people who seem to just want something new and different, which is what the A7iii is, at a cost lower than A7R3. It does some things better, at the cost of doing other things worse.

I'll say it this way: if you're simply bored of DSLRs and want to change the way you think about photography, go buy a Sony. It's an entirely different paradigm, with a whole other set of limitations and benefits.

If your goal is to have the best interchangeable lens point and shoot inthe world, the A7 series does an admirable job of it, at a tremendous price. It is easy to capture what you see down the viewfinder, much more so than any DSLR, for sure. And in that case, you'll add some great photos that are memorable to you, that nobody much cares about, because there are trillions of similar pictures on the internet.

On the other hand, if your goal is to improve your photography and stand out from the endless well that is Flickr, be mindful that that phtography is still light, composition, and the capturing of a moment. The camera body and all the technology in the world improves none of that, not even one tiny bit, whether you're using a 1995 EOS or a 2018 Alpha. Ironically, to that point, the skills in the 90's I used a Minolta Maxxum, the granddaddy of the Sony Alphas. The skills I acquired then, like exposure, lighting, composition, direction, and perspective really have not changed in 30 years.

This is why it's ridiculous for me to hear that an A7iii has "changed the segment". What is "the segment"? A bunch of rich people who want to buy an expensive gadget to brag about the technology they own? Or hobbyists and professionals who what to capture light as a passion or profession?

I hope that "the segment" is the latter. You know, photographers.

 

[9VIII]

1. Getting a Metabones adapter isn’t “Leaving Canon”, it’s “Adapting Canon”.

2. I’ve never used a 1DX or A7 so I can’t say from personal experience, but I really doubt Sony has better AF in Sports&Wildlife. This just sounds like more hyperbole from people trying to push Canon into improving their sensor tech. I want better sensors from Canon too, but I won’t be joining the parade celebrating the emperor’s new clothes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes

3. The only thing Sony actually did better than anyone else here is Dual Card Slots, especially after the D7500 no longer has that feature, the A7III is now the cheapest “professional” body one the market for that reason alone.


Considering everything in general Talys hit the nail on the head.

There are a lot of people who seem to just want something new and different, which is what the A7iii is, at a cost lower than A7R3. It does some things better, at the cost of doing other things worse.

I'll say it this way: if you're simply bored of DSLRs and want to change the way you think about photography, go buy a Sony. It's an entirely different paradigm, with a whole other set of limitations and benefits.

If your goal is to have the best interchangeable lens point and shoot inthe world, the A7 series does an admirable job of it, at a tremendous price. It is easy to capture what you see down the viewfinder, much more so than any DSLR, for sure. And in that case, you'll add some great photos that are memorable to you, that nobody much cares about, because there are trillions of similar pictures on the internet.

On the other hand, if your goal is to improve your photography and stand out from the endless well that is Flickr, be mindful that that phtography is still light, composition, and the capturing of a moment. The camera body and all the technology in the world improves none of that, not even one tiny bit, whether you're using a 1995 EOS or a 2018 Alpha. Ironically, to that point, the skills in the 90's I used a Minolta Maxxum, the granddaddy of the Sony Alphas. The skills I acquired then, like exposure, lighting, composition, direction, and perspective really have not changed in 30 years.

This is why it's ridiculous for me to hear that an A7iii has "changed the segment". What is "the segment"? A bunch of rich people who want to buy an expensive gadget to brag about the technology they own? Or hobbyists and professionals who what to capture light as a passion or profession?

I hope that "the segment" is the latter. You know, photographers.

 

[dak723]

I am still here because Canon has treated me very well for many years. Canon has the best glass. Canon has the best user experience. Canon has a wide range of compatible camera bodies. I use a SL1 as backup when traveling.
My point is that I am truly begging Canon to accelerate the release of a FF EOS.
I’m not “flaming” and I have not jumped ship.
Merely a disappointed loyalist who does examine alternatives.

Examining alternatives is definitely a good thing. Choosing the best camera for you is also a good thing. The reason for my earlier reply was simply meant to say: Beware of the Sony hype. I was suckered by it and luckily could return the two Sony's I bought to replace my Canon 6D. But if you don't think it is hype and your experience tells you that the Sony is way ahead of any Canon offering, you should switch. Since all the rumors seem to be pointing to a Canon FF mirrorless announcement by the end of the year, I guess it is up to you to decide whether the wait is worth it or not.

For those who seem to be upset anytime someone defends Canon, it seems only fair to try and balance those who constantly bash Canon and over-exaggerate the differences between Canon and it's competitors. Having owned Canon, Olympus and briefly those two Sonys, I comment based on my experience, not on reading spec sheets. Sorry if that disturbs some of you. I am not a "Canon fanboy". Just someone trying to give an honest opinion and keep things in perspective. The only Camera company that I have any sort of loyalty or emotional attachment to is Olympus, as the OM-1 was my first camera.

 

[brad-man]

And I thought everyone's first camera was a Kodak

 

[Don Haines]

And I thought everyone's first camera was a Kodak

Kodak instamatic with the flash cubes.....

 

[bwud]

The latest Metabones Adapter (Mark-V) makes all of my Canon glass sing on a Sony. So for $2,500 I could have a far better sensor for my Canon glass and they would all focus better

I wouldn’t count on that, unless the V is substantially better than my IV, or unless the a7iii is substantially better than my a7Riii.

In some cases the canon lenses AF well adapted. In other cases they don’t AF at all. It very much depends on the lens, and on the conditions.

You’re using three different brands, none of whom, as far as I know, share IP. It’s never going to be seamless. I’ve done shoots using a Sony body, a metabones adapter, canon lenses, yongnuo triggers, canon speed lights, and elinchrom monolights. It’s a “s” show. I’ve since gone to mostly native lenses, and can use the proper trigger for my lights since the Riii finally has a flash sync port.

 

[ritholtz]

OP,
What are the cheap and best Sony lens one can keep a eye on. One wide angel lens, general purpose lens, some prime (30mm/35mm/50mm) lens for personal use. DPR review shows big bump in DR performance with some dual gain concept. When Sony release a crop camera with dual gain, it should be not that much far off from Canon FF right?