Getting sharp pictures with 7DII - need advice please

[picturefan]

My 7D2 has also had inconsistent focusing issues. It has been to Canon service once and they found no problems. Some days it seems really good, other days it hardly hits. Mostly I've narrowed it down to a very "nervous" AI Servo drive. Even shooting a static subject in AI Servo you can visually see the focus racking back and forth by the smallest amounts and that seems to lead to a very inconsistent tack sharp hit rate.

Anyways, in the past 2 months I've found two excellent solutions to the 7D2 issues:

1) I bought a 5DSR....the focus system works (just like my 5D3 and 1DX)...only problem is the slow FPS for birds and wildlife action.

2) I bought a D500 and 200-500 lens. I've never experienced the focus consistency that I get from this camera in any Canon camera...only my 1DX is close. Having 20 shot bursts all in focus handholding from a kayak for BIF is something even the 1DX couldn't pull off. And this is with a fairly cheap Nikon lens compared to all the exotic Canon lenses I own and use regularly.

So those are my two newest solutions to my 7D2 headaches. My kit is now 5DSR, 1DX and D500. 7D2 will be sold soon.

Why are you shooting STATIC subjects with AI Servo?

Always have, always will. I'm handholding 90% of the time, even static things like birds on a perch are always moving somewhat, trees are moving. I've never used one shot except for a few trials to prove to myself Servo always gave equal or better results.

I've owned 7D, 5D2, 5D3, 1D4, 1DX, 7D2, 5DSR and 80D. I know the Canon system inside and out. Out of all those bodies the 7D2 has been the only real headache with in-consistent AF. I've watched the AF response in the same way on the 1DX and 5DSR, there is no noticeable jitter in the AF system when focused on a fairly static subject. It is visible through the VF on the 7D2. I'm convinced this is the main reason on my 7D2 copy that I can't get a consistent in focus hit rate.

My 7D2 however is not exactly as the OP describes his to be as I have 1000s of tack sharp shots at all different subject distances over the past 15 months. I just can't trust it to nail the shot I want.

Someday I may just purchase another 7D2 and try it again. But most likely will wait for the 7D3. I'm not selling off any of my Canon gear as I love my big lenses. The D500/200-500 is a stop gap to give me a high FPS crop body that produces the results I need.

In my opinion it should be the main advantage of a product family that every single element should have relatively same using characteristics, so 1Dx, 5DIII and 7DII should react the same. So same focus mode, picture sytle, cases etc.

What do you guess? Are some 7DII just "mal-manufactured"?

 

[arbitrage]

My 7D2 has also had inconsistent focusing issues. It has been to Canon service once and they found no problems. Some days it seems really good, other days it hardly hits. Mostly I've narrowed it down to a very "nervous" AI Servo drive. Even shooting a static subject in AI Servo you can visually see the focus racking back and forth by the smallest amounts and that seems to lead to a very inconsistent tack sharp hit rate.

Anyways, in the past 2 months I've found two excellent solutions to the 7D2 issues:

1) I bought a 5DSR....the focus system works (just like my 5D3 and 1DX)...only problem is the slow FPS for birds and wildlife action.

2) I bought a D500 and 200-500 lens. I've never experienced the focus consistency that I get from this camera in any Canon camera...only my 1DX is close. Having 20 shot bursts all in focus handholding from a kayak for BIF is something even the 1DX couldn't pull off. And this is with a fairly cheap Nikon lens compared to all the exotic Canon lenses I own and use regularly.

So those are my two newest solutions to my 7D2 headaches. My kit is now 5DSR, 1DX and D500. 7D2 will be sold soon.

Why are you shooting STATIC subjects with AI Servo?

Always have, always will. I'm handholding 90% of the time, even static things like birds on a perch are always moving somewhat, trees are moving. I've never used one shot except for a few trials to prove to myself Servo always gave equal or better results.

I've owned 7D, 5D2, 5D3, 1D4, 1DX, 7D2, 5DSR and 80D. I know the Canon system inside and out. Out of all those bodies the 7D2 has been the only real headache with in-consistent AF. I've watched the AF response in the same way on the 1DX and 5DSR, there is no noticeable jitter in the AF system when focused on a fairly static subject. It is visible through the VF on the 7D2. I'm convinced this is the main reason on my 7D2 copy that I can't get a consistent in focus hit rate.

My 7D2 however is not exactly as the OP describes his to be as I have 1000s of tack sharp shots at all different subject distances over the past 15 months. I just can't trust it to nail the shot I want.

Someday I may just purchase another 7D2 and try it again. But most likely will wait for the 7D3. I'm not selling off any of my Canon gear as I love my big lenses. The D500/200-500 is a stop gap to give me a high FPS crop body that produces the results I need.

In my opinion it should be the main advantage of a product family that every single element should have relatively same using characteristics, so 1Dx, 5DIII and 7DII should react the same. So same focus mode, picture sytle, cases etc.

What do you guess? Are some 7DII just "mal-manufactured"?

The nice thing about Canon is ever since the 5D3/1DX release the outside packaging of the AF options has looked the same over all the high end bodies and even on the 80D that doesn't have the Case settings it still has the settings that the Cases are formed from.

However, I don't believe the behind the scenes AF processing is anywhere near the same on any of the recent cameras. The 1 series have more dedicated AF processors. The newer 5DS/R has a better metering system that can factor into the AF say compared to the 5D3.

I really think that the 7D2 may just have programming in it that is designed to create a very active AF response and that this hinders the consistency. I could be totally wrong. Possibly my camera is somewhat defective. Canon CPS Canada told me it functioned within spec but maybe if I sent it to one of the US service centres they may find something to adjust?

 

[East Wind Photography]

My 7D2 has also had inconsistent focusing issues. It has been to Canon service once and they found no problems. Some days it seems really good, other days it hardly hits. Mostly I've narrowed it down to a very "nervous" AI Servo drive. Even shooting a static subject in AI Servo you can visually see the focus racking back and forth by the smallest amounts and that seems to lead to a very inconsistent tack sharp hit rate.

Anyways, in the past 2 months I've found two excellent solutions to the 7D2 issues:

1) I bought a 5DSR....the focus system works (just like my 5D3 and 1DX)...only problem is the slow FPS for birds and wildlife action.

2) I bought a D500 and 200-500 lens. I've never experienced the focus consistency that I get from this camera in any Canon camera...only my 1DX is close. Having 20 shot bursts all in focus handholding from a kayak for BIF is something even the 1DX couldn't pull off. And this is with a fairly cheap Nikon lens compared to all the exotic Canon lenses I own and use regularly.

So those are my two newest solutions to my 7D2 headaches. My kit is now 5DSR, 1DX and D500. 7D2 will be sold soon.

Why are you shooting STATIC subjects with AI Servo?

Always have, always will. I'm handholding 90% of the time, even static things like birds on a perch are always moving somewhat, trees are moving. I've never used one shot except for a few trials to prove to myself Servo always gave equal or better results.

I've owned 7D, 5D2, 5D3, 1D4, 1DX, 7D2, 5DSR and 80D. I know the Canon system inside and out. Out of all those bodies the 7D2 has been the only real headache with in-consistent AF. I've watched the AF response in the same way on the 1DX and 5DSR, there is no noticeable jitter in the AF system when focused on a fairly static subject. It is visible through the VF on the 7D2. I'm convinced this is the main reason on my 7D2 copy that I can't get a consistent in focus hit rate.

My 7D2 however is not exactly as the OP describes his to be as I have 1000s of tack sharp shots at all different subject distances over the past 15 months. I just can't trust it to nail the shot I want.

Someday I may just purchase another 7D2 and try it again. But most likely will wait for the 7D3. I'm not selling off any of my Canon gear as I love my big lenses. The D500/200-500 is a stop gap to give me a high FPS crop body that produces the results I need.

In my opinion it should be the main advantage of a product family that every single element should have relatively same using characteristics, so 1Dx, 5DIII and 7DII should react the same. So same focus mode, picture sytle, cases etc.

What do you guess? Are some 7DII just "mal-manufactured"?

The nice thing about Canon is ever since the 5D3/1DX release the outside packaging of the AF options has looked the same over all the high end bodies and even on the 80D that doesn't have the Case settings it still has the settings that the Cases are formed from.

However, I don't believe the behind the scenes AF processing is anywhere near the same on any of the recent cameras. The 1 series have more dedicated AF processors. The newer 5DS/R has a better metering system that can factor into the AF say compared to the 5D3.

I really think that the 7D2 may just have programming in it that is designed to create a very active AF response and that this hinders the consistency. I could be totally wrong. Possibly my camera is somewhat defective. Canon CPS Canada told me it functioned within spec but maybe if I sent it to one of the US service centres they may find something to adjust?

Maybe one of the things to consider here is that due to the smaller sensor, the af sensors may be smaller and therefore not have the spread to achieve the same accuracy and lock as on a full frame system. The af point may also be quite larger and therefore not as precise as one would expect.

I really dont know if there is a difference but it would make sense considering the aps-c size.

Before i sent my 7d2 in for service the af was very jittery and it was not able to hold afma adjustment. Once the mirror box and af sensor was replaced and system recalibrated, the AF is very stable and i may get 1 out of 20 that has missed its mark. Ive used it for stadium sports shooting with a 300 f2.8 wide open and rarely have a missed shot that wasnt my fault. i usually just leave it on case 1 and everything set for focus priority.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Keep in mind that subject distance has a significant impact, e.g. if you shoot similarly-sized subjects close vs. far and crop the more distant one, it's going to be softer. The haws shots below were with the same camera (7D) and same lens (100-400), the one on the right was about 1/3 the distance and the shot was downsampled to yield similar size images.

 

[picturefan]

Keep in mind that subject distance has a significant impact, e.g. if you shoot similarly-sized subjects close vs. far and crop the more distant one, it's going to be softer. The haws shots below were with the same camera (7D) and same lens (100-400), the one on the right was about 1/3 the distance and the shot was downsampled to yield similar size images.

This is an impressive example of a different perfomance. If I did not knew, I´d think that you must have used my very own Camera to get the pic on the left.
The peaches and bullfinch above were approx. 10-15m away from me. In most situations this is the closest you can get for most wild animal shots in central-europe. So there is no cropping on the pics I´ve posted. With unsatisfying results it´s even worse to crop.
Until now it isn´t possible to post new test-pics due to neverending rainfall So no possibilty for low iso-high andshutter speeds. Will wait...

 

[Don Haines]

Keep in mind that subject distance has a significant impact, e.g. if you shoot similarly-sized subjects close vs. far and crop the more distant one, it's going to be softer. The haws shots below were with the same camera (7D) and same lens (100-400), the one on the right was about 1/3 the distance and the shot was downsampled to yield similar size images.

This is an impressive example of a different perfomance. If I did not knew, I´d think that you must have used my very own Camera to get the pic on the left.
The peaches and bullfinch above were approx. 10-15m away from me. In most situations this is the closest you can get for most wild animal shots in central-europe. So there is no cropping on the pics I´ve posted. With unsatisfying results it´s even worse to crop.
Until now it isn´t possible to post new test-pics due to neverending rainfall So no possibilty for low iso-high andshutter speeds. Will wait...

Also DOF causes sharpness problems. I have seen multiple cases where someone lets the camera choose the AF point (they like to choose the closest point) and the part of the image that they were interested in is far enough back that it appears to be out of focus...

For example, take a 600mm lens shot at F8 (typical for Tamron and Sigma 150-600's), and a subject 10 meters away..... the DOF is a surprisingly small 8 centimeters. The following image was shot under those conditions and cropped to show the point. The AF point was centered on the second duckling and the one behind with the wings out is embarrassingly fuzzy...... The one in front is also out of focus.

The camera nailed the shot. It did exactly what I told it to do. I told it to do the wrong thing

 

[serendipidy]

The camera nailed the shot. It did exactly what I told it to do. I told it to do the wrong thing

Don,
My camera rarely listens to me. I tell it to take perfect gorgeous photos every time I press the shutter button, but it mostly just ignores my request ;D

 

[picturefan]

Keep in mind that subject distance has a significant impact, e.g. if you shoot similarly-sized subjects close vs. far and crop the more distant one, it's going to be softer. The haws shots below were with the same camera (7D) and same lens (100-400), the one on the right was about 1/3 the distance and the shot was downsampled to yield similar size images.

This is an impressive example of a different perfomance. If I did not knew, I´d think that you must have used my very own Camera to get the pic on the left.
The peaches and bullfinch above were approx. 10-15m away from me. In most situations this is the closest you can get for most wild animal shots in central-europe. So there is no cropping on the pics I´ve posted. With unsatisfying results it´s even worse to crop.
Until now it isn´t possible to post new test-pics due to neverending rainfall So no possibilty for low iso-high andshutter speeds. Will wait...

Also DOF causes sharpness problems. I have seen multiple cases where someone lets the camera choose the AF point (they like to choose the closest point) and the part of the image that they were interested in is far enough back that it appears to be out of focus...

For example, take a 600mm lens shot at F8 (typical for Tamron and Sigma 150-600's), and a subject 10 meters away..... the DOF is a surprisingly small 8 centimeters. The following image was shot under those conditions and cropped to show the point. The AF point was centered on the second duckling and the one behind with the wings out is embarrassingly fuzzy...... The one in front is also out of focus.

The camera nailed the shot. It did exactly what I told it to do. I told it to do the wrong thing

Something´s wrong with my nonexistent japanese - my canon isn`t listenig either

But seriously, when shooting the examples, dof must have been around 20cm, with a 4cm peach or bird in the middle of the field, it shouldn´t become a problem. The ducks seem to be in a row of at last half a meter, so this eventuality can be excluded.

Still need to see some answers of you folks with similiar problems/similar pictures that are much more sharp.

Will post some other pics soon.

 

[picturefan]

Today I went out testing in a little wildlife parc. Weather was cloudy - so again no low iso, high shutter speeds - but "normal conditions" for a semi-pro canon camera to get sharp pics.

Here are two more, a tomtit and a boar. Distances ca. 3m.
Tomtit: 400mm, f5.6, sandbag, 1/350, is (=ideal), but iso 6400. noise is ok, but sharpness not necessarily good.
Boar: 400mm, f8, sandbag, is, iso 320 (=ideal), time 1/20. that´s ok because of sandbag, is and none moving animal. Sharpness of the eye (focus point) imho bad.

Any comments appreciated.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Today I went out testing in a little wildlife parc. Weather was cloudy - so again no low iso, high shutter speeds - but "normal conditions" for a semi-pro canon camera to get sharp pics.

Here are two more, a tomtit and a boar. Distances ca. 3m.
Tomtit: 400mm, f5.6, sandbag, 1/350, is (=ideal), but iso 6400. noise is ok, but sharpness not necessarily good.
Boar: 400mm, f8, sandbag, is, iso 320 (=ideal), time 1/20. that´s ok because of sandbag, is and none moving animal. Sharpness of the eye (focus point) imho bad.

Any comments appreciated.

400mm, f/5.6, 3 m distance...DoF = ~1 cm.

The bird looks as sharp as one could expect at ISO 6400, although the plane of focus is slightly in front of the eye. Looks like the area of sharpest focus for the boar shot is behind the eye, although it's still not sharp. At 1/20 s, I'd expect subject motion blur even in an animal that appears still.

I'm not saying there's not a problem, but I don't think your testing so far has been conclusive.

 

[picturefan]

Today I went out testing in a little wildlife parc. Weather was cloudy - so again no low iso, high shutter speeds - but "normal conditions" for a semi-pro canon camera to get sharp pics.

Here are two more, a tomtit and a boar. Distances ca. 3m.
Tomtit: 400mm, f5.6, sandbag, 1/350, is (=ideal), but iso 6400. noise is ok, but sharpness not necessarily good.
Boar: 400mm, f8, sandbag, is, iso 320 (=ideal), time 1/20. that´s ok because of sandbag, is and none moving animal. Sharpness of the eye (focus point) imho bad.

Any comments appreciated.

400mm, f/5.6, 3 m distance...DoF = ~1 cm.

The bird looks as sharp as one could expect at ISO 6400, although the plane of focus is slightly in front of the eye. Looks like the area of sharpest focus for the boar shot is behind the eye, although it's still not sharp. At 1/20 s, I'd expect subject motion blur even in an animal that appears still.

I'm not saying there's not a problem, but I don't think your testing so far has been conclusive.

One the one hand, I guess the peach is. On the other, the animals, unfortunatly, have been under real world and not testing conditions, sure.
But for the next ones, I try to be more compelling.

When taking a look at the following, I hope the softness can be shown better:
This one about a deer (ca 150m+ away) is not convincing me:
Iso 400, f8, 1/250, 560mm (1.4Ex. III), sturdy tripod, remote release, liveview focus (10x)

 

[picturefan]

Here is, from today, a pack of boars:
Iso 640, 300mm, f8, 1/125, IS, sandbag, liveview-focus, focus on the eyes

Feel free to magnify...

 

[picturefan]

And out of this pack is another one, best shooting conditions (and a bit of summer feeling when sun comes out)

Iso 320, f6.7, 1/250, 300mm, IS, sandbag, liveview-focus, focus on the eyes, distance ca. 30m

Softness comes out at magnifying...

 

[privatebydesign]

And out of this pack is another one, best shooting conditions (and a bit of summer feeling when sun comes out)

Iso 320, f6.7, 1/250, 300mm, IS, sandbag, liveview-focus, focus on the eyes, distance ca. 30m

Softness comes out at magnifying...

Nope, the image is as sharp as you can expect with your technique (what sharpening technique sare you using in post?) and it shows no signs of equipment issues, same as the boar above shot at 1/20 sec.

 

[picturefan]

And out of this pack is another one, best shooting conditions (and a bit of summer feeling when sun comes out)

Iso 320, f6.7, 1/250, 300mm, IS, sandbag, liveview-focus, focus on the eyes, distance ca. 30m

Softness comes out at magnifying...

Nope, the image is as sharp as you can expect with your technique (what sharpening technique sare you using in post?) and it shows no signs of equipment issues, same as the boar above shot at 1/20 sec.

It is out of the cam, no sharpening or post so far.
While searching for these tack-sharp pics with a 7DII/100-400II combo, I found one very good example of an green parrot on a flickr-page of a girl called Annie or of a heron on Bryans site t-d-p.com. I don´t know if I´m allowed to post the link here to get a comparison. But that heron there, respectively the sharpness, is what I am dreaming of (and the reason for spending all that money in gear...)

 

[privatebydesign]

And out of this pack is another one, best shooting conditions (and a bit of summer feeling when sun comes out)

Iso 320, f6.7, 1/250, 300mm, IS, sandbag, liveview-focus, focus on the eyes, distance ca. 30m

Softness comes out at magnifying...

Nope, the image is as sharp as you can expect with your technique (what sharpening technique sare you using in post?) and it shows no signs of equipment issues, same as the boar above shot at 1/20 sec.

It is out of the cam, no sharpening or post so far.
While searching for these tack-sharp pics with a 7DII/100-400II combo, I found one very good example of an green parrot on a flickr-page of a girl called Annie or of a heron on Bryans site t-d-p.com. I don´t know if I´m allowed to post the link here to get a comparison. But that heron there, respectively the sharpness, is what I am dreaming of (and the reason for spending all that money in gear...)

Yes you can post the links.

You have the equipment to get the images you want, you need to learn a lot about how to get them.

Post processing makes a massive difference to your output and cameras with AA filters (the 7D MkII) are designed to need sharpening in post, it is a given.

Beanbags at 1/20th sec are never going to get you pixel sharp images.

 

[picturefan]

And out of this pack is another one, best shooting conditions (and a bit of summer feeling when sun comes out)

Iso 320, f6.7, 1/250, 300mm, IS, sandbag, liveview-focus, focus on the eyes, distance ca. 30m

Softness comes out at magnifying...

Nope, the image is as sharp as you can expect with your technique (what sharpening technique sare you using in post?) and it shows no signs of equipment issues, same as the boar above shot at 1/20 sec.

It is out of the cam, no sharpening or post so far.
While searching for these tack-sharp pics with a 7DII/100-400II combo, I found one very good example of an green parrot on a flickr-page of a girl called Annie or of a heron on Bryans site t-d-p.com. I don´t know if I´m allowed to post the link here to get a comparison. But that heron there, respectively the sharpness, is what I am dreaming of (and the reason for spending all that money in gear...)

Yes you can post the links.

You have the equipment to get the images you want, you need to learn a lot about how to get them.

Post processing makes a massive difference to your output and cameras with AA filters (the 7D MkII) are designed to need sharpening in post, it is a given.

Beanbags at 1/20th sec are never going to get you pixel sharp images.

The link is:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Pictures/Picture.aspx?Picture=2015-02-23_17-10-47

Reason for opening this thread is to find out, if all possible post-processing can wash away the softness I find, for example when you look at the deer - imho all field-technique for good primary-material is used here. Couldn´t do it sharper, also in post. That´s why I´m asking here.

Beanbag-technique here (when tripod is impractical) is: 400mm -> 1/500 with 4-stop of IS -> 1/30 + beanbag (actually filled with rice) -> 1/20 should work out (if animal is not moving)

Here I applied some sharpening/saturation (this time not in LR, only in a nice`n´easy freeware called irfan):

 

[picturefan]

Bryan Carnathan, among others, stated that "EOS 7D II images are very sharp". For his posted blue heron this is true, as one can see. It´s made under perfect conditions. Probably a better Powershot-Model should have been able to get similar results here. But he´s not telling on his page if he means "very sharp" right out of the cam - no matter if raw or jpg - or only after post. With 7DII pixel´s density it is clear that there should be some reserves, especially if cropping is needed. But primar material very often is far away from very sharp, as many others also stated.

 

[Corydoras]

A fast shutter speed is critical for getting sharp shots with the 7D Mark II. When I handhold the 400mm f/5.6 I tend to use at least 1/800 or faster shutter speed when lighting conditions allow it without having to use too high ISO.

The IS in my 70-200 certainly helps when the target is not moving. In this example I used 1/320s at 200mm and IS was on. DOF is quite shallow at f/2.8 and 200mm and the plane of focus ended up being a bit too far back (eyes of the hedgehog were the target) and that was my error, but the sharpness is good where the plane of focus is.

 

[picturefan]

Until now there have been very helpful comments, also about the testing modes. Thank you all.
In real life shooting it is, of course, often necessary to match adjustments adequate to the given conditions.

So I´ll be lucky - and all others, who posted - to see some satisfaying (tack sharp) results and some others, just to see, what the 7DII is capable to achieve in IQ in combination with the new MarkII-Telezooms.

For myself, I need any comments on the posted deer. Shooting technique there seems close to optimal to me, but the deer is so-so...