Getting sharp pictures with 7DII - need advice please

[neuroanatomist]

I know it's the Internet, but...

Too.

Many.

Cat.

Pictures.

 

[Don Haines]

I know it's the Internet, but...

Too.

Many.

Cat.

Pictures.

I could have used a can of tuna, but the cats ate it

 

[AlanF]

Don
You are absolutely right that you have to practice and test your own particular equipment and learn its quirks. My lenses have different degrees of shutter vibration effects at about 1/60 - 1/160s. But, they are not affected by IS as is yours. Was it the Tamron 150-600 mm you were using? Are other of your lenses affected by IS?

 

[hne]

I checked out more the EXIF subject distances for longer distances as I have been taking photos of a peregrine falcon at about 40-45m up the library tower from similar spots with different cameras and lenses over the years. As I recalled, these readings are very variable, unlike those for the shorter distancea of a few metres to 20-30m. I would guess it's the physical calibration of the lens at longer distances. As we all know, looking at the distance scale, the further away, the closer the distance markings get, and the EXIFs are reporting back on the mechanical readings. Maybe?

Pretty much, yes. The distance is reported back to the camera primarily to allow the ETTL-II flash system to use lens-reported focus distance to set the preflash level (and choosing which metering zones to emphasize) when your flash is on-camera and aimed at the subject.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/E-TTL_II.do

For this, the ETTL-II system needs to know the distance with enough precision to do a guestimate of the guide number needed for the subject (together with ISO and aperture number). Knowning if the subject is at 0.5m or 1.0m distance is more important than knowing if the subject is at 50m or 55m distance. Above 100m, you'll hardly need any precision at all for flash purposes, as the flash output difference between 100m and 200m is just two stops and this is only used for the preflash to judge subject reflectivity anyway.

 

[picturefan]

Don, interesting testing as well (once had the same cat as seen on your can). I only switch IS off when using tripod (manfrotto 055). I can see the differences between IS on and off but can´t tell why.
But I´m sure you know about that "first-second IS-thing". The first second, with some lenses, stabilising is just like centering and not reliable, and after that it is ready to shoot. It means that results differ, depending on the lead time of the IS.

At weekend I´ll test birds to compare with jmeyer´s example.
@jmeyer: 130´is feet, not meter? Is it OOC?

@ AlanF: my testing with the chart you linked to me led to following result:

@400mm, f5.6, 1/4000, iso100, tripod, remote release, liveview. No post. Upper one ca. 1/3 of a letter size. Distance 20m. (Remark: results with af differed from shot to shot. the pic shown is one of the sharpest).
How do you rate sharpness?

 

[neuroanatomist]

You are absolutely right that you have to practice and test your own particular equipment and learn its quirks. My lenses have different degrees of shutter vibration effects at about 1/60 - 1/160s. But, they are not affected by IS as is yours. Was it the Tamron 150-600 mm you were using? Are other of your lenses affected by IS?

Agreed – I've tested my 600/4 II and my 100L, and neither are negatively impacted by IS (unless I just mash down the shutter release without allowing the ~0.5 s that the IS system needs to fully activate).

 

[YuengLinger]

You are absolutely right that you have to practice and test your own particular equipment and learn its quirks. My lenses have different degrees of shutter vibration effects at about 1/60 - 1/160s. But, they are not affected by IS as is yours. Was it the Tamron 150-600 mm you were using? Are other of your lenses affected by IS?

Agreed – I've tested my 600/4 II and my 100L, and neither are negatively impacted by IS (unless I just mash down the shutter release without allowing the ~0.5 s that the IS system needs to fully activate).

And even professionals who earn a living from portrait photography sometimes forget this and get frustrated. Really good point.

 

[Kerry B]

Don't know if the attached helps. A humble Pigeon taken at a distance of approx 35 metres on a cloudy dark and windy day. Canon 7dii with 100-400ii at 400mm. ISO 400 and shutter speed 500th sec. Mounted on solid tripod in AV servo continuous mode. Plenty of mirror slap up.

Two images the first no crop the second significant crop. Whilst not the best of images does show what the camera can produce at distance albeit not a huge distance.

 

[AlanF]

@ AlanF: my testing with the chart you linked to me led to following result:

@400mm, f5.6, 1/4000, iso100, tripod, remote release, liveview. No post. Upper one ca. 1/3 of a letter size. Distance 20m. (Remark: results with af differed from shot to shot. the pic shown is one of the sharpest).
How do you rate sharpness?

Here is your chart, followed by mine at iso 640, hand held, centre spot AF. Mine have absolutely no sharpening being just converted from RAW by DxO with PRIME noise reduction. Yours have quite a bit of sharpening in camera as you can see from the halos around the lines. Yours are also 14% bigger, possibly you printed larger, which should give you 14% more apparent resolution from the chart.
In order: yours, my 7DII + 100-400 II at 400mm; 5DS R + 100-400 II at 400mm; 5DS R + Sigma150-600mm C at 390mm; 5DS R + 300mm f/2.8 II + 1.4xTC at 420mm; 5DS R + 150-600mm at 600mm.

The target has got wet and dried out for some of them. The winners in order 600mm, 420mm, 390mm.

ps
The numbers on the chart have units of line pairs per mm: e.g 2.8 = 2.8 lp/mm. At a distance of 20m with a 400mm lens and a sensor with 4.14 micron pixels (as on 7DII or 5DS), 1 lp/mm would cover just under 5 pixels. So the, maximum possible resolution would be just under 2.5 lp/mm, if each black line and each white line fell exactly on a pixel. The Sigma at 390mm is getting close to 2.2. At 600mm, the max poss resolution is about 3.6 lp/mm and the Sigma is reaching 2.8, without sharpening.

 

[bholliman]

Thanks for taking the time to run this experiment and post the pictures Don! Good information.

 

[AlanF]

For amusement, the Sigma at 840mm with the 1.4xTC and f/9 (it still AFs). You get an extra 15% of resolution, hardly worth it, but the quality is good.

I checked again using these charts whether IS lowers IQ. IS actually increased the resolution of my 100-400mm II on the the 5DS R. The 150-600mm set at the standard OS (Sigma's IS) has lower resolution but "Dynamic" IS retains IQ.

 

[langdonb]

Hi all,

I was having the same problem with my 7Dii and 100-400 L II. I had gone on a two month safari to three countries in Africa and came back with a keeper rate of 20% in many cases. I live in Panama, but have CPS is USA, so I sent the camera body to Canonin New Jersey. The result was that they could not identify the cause, but did see front focusing from time to time. "Electrical adjustments were made, functions were confirmed, firmware updates to 1.05"

When I got it back I made 100's of test shots in one shot mode, on a sturdy tripod and had many OOF images. Prior to doing that I adjusted AFMA using Focal. I was very frustrated as I am returning to Africa in two weeks! I started paying close attention through the VF and then I saw the problem. I could actually see the target moving, or rather the lens/body vibrating during the capture (using remote).

I was using normal single shot, not single shot silent because I had read somewhere that using silent mode could cause focus problems. But I did try it and now am getting consistent sharp images at 75-100 meters. To prove the point, I just did a test with and without silent mode and sure enough, those captures in standard mode were soft!

I don't know if that will help others, but it seemed to help me.

 

[AlanF]

I always use silent mode for 1/200s or slower as there is mirror-shutter slap, depending on the lens. Above that, the usual mode is absolutely fine. Most cameras have problems at the lower shutter speeds, and that includes Nikon. in particular, and mirrorless as well.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi langdonb.
Thank you for this, I shall try this out at some point, see if it makes a difference at lower shutter speeds where a good number of shots seem to be missing that last little bit, thought it was technique, still might be!

Cheers, Graham.

Hi all,

I was having the same problem with my 7Dii and 100-400 L II. I had gone on a two month safari to three countries in Africa and came back with a keeper rate of 20% in many cases. I live in Panama, but have CPS is USA, so I sent the camera body to Canonin New Jersey. The result was that they could not identify the cause, but did see front focusing from time to time. "Electrical adjustments were made, functions were confirmed, firmware updates to 1.05"

When I got it back I made 100's of test shots in one shot mode, on a sturdy tripod and had many OOF images. Prior to doing that I adjusted AFMA using Focal. I was very frustrated as I am returning to Africa in two weeks! I started paying close attention through the VF and then I saw the problem. I could actually see the target moving, or rather the lens/body vibrating during the capture (using remote).

I was using normal single shot, not single shot silent because I had read somewhere that using silent mode could cause focus problems. But I did try it and now am getting consistent sharp images at 75-100 meters. To prove the point, I just did a test with and without silent mode and sure enough, those captures in standard mode were soft!

I don't know if that will help others, but it seemed to help me.

 

[East Wind Photography]

For amusement, the Sigma at 840mm with the 1.4xTC and f/9 (it still AFs). You get an extra 15% of resolution, hardly worth it, but the quality is good.

I checked again using these charts whether IS lowers IQ. IS actually increased the resolution of my 100-400mm II on the the 5DS R. The 150-600mm set at the standard OS (Sigma's IS) has lower resolution but "Dynamic" IS retains IQ.

IS can help with mirror slap even on a tripod. I recall an article that tested several new models on a tripod at various shutter speeds with and without IS and in different drive modes including silent mode. The point was to show that IS and silent mode can help reduce camera movement due to mirror and shutter slap. But the interesting thing about the test is that it showed how much of an impact it can have on the resulting image even at moderate shutter speeds.