Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800

[Jayden01]

Hey folks,

even if some of you will hate me for starting another Canon VS Nikon Thread, i need your help.

My Situation:
I`m a videographer and mostly shoot videos of weddings and advertisings for companies. I use a Sony PMW-EX3 with the Letus Ultimate Adapter to have nice DOF and and a PMW-EX1r. Due to many fotographic requests, this has been my hobby so far, i want to upgrade to a FF-Camera of the newest geneartion.

So far i used a Canon 500D but it isn`t really a camera for professional needs.

I`m also looking for buying strobes to run a small studio for portrait-fotographie and i`m interested in using the video-mode to be a bit more flexible then i`m now with the letus setup.

I have no lenses for a full-format camera so now it´s time to decide with which company i`ll go for a decade or a lifetime.

From what i`ve seen so far im very impressed by the example pictures of the Nikon D800. In my opinion even the downsampled pictures look way better and sharper than the canon pictures. I`m very impressed by the videos,too. For example the video with the motobike. If i have lot failures inside the text, don`t hurt me, i`m from germany and not a native speaker .

So i want to achieve a camera that gives me optimal results in the studio, nice video perfomance and that is usuable for wedding-photography. High ISO is important for Weddings, but i think the quality of the D800 is still very nice at 6400 and i think that this is enough for the avaiable light in the church.

The problem is, i really like the canon handling and it looks better to me. I know, that the look of the camera shouldn`t matter, but if both cams would have an equal quality i would like to go with canon. The decision is so hard, because it is a lot of money to spend, so i fear to take the wrong decision.

Is it too early to decide until the first real life situation tests hit the internet or did you already decide which way to go? I mean most will already have multiple lenses, so the decision is easier. Please help me. I read so much about both cams, that i simply read too much. Both seem to be very nice and i think neither the canon nor the nikon will be a "bad" camera, bit i simply want the best for my needs.

Thanks in advance!
Jay

Add: What i forgot, i really like these Nikon-Features: Wireless Flash (Without Adapter) and Timelapse

Add2: Which company has the better lenses. I know that l lenses are the best canon lenses but although read that nikon g lenses are better thatn the canon lenses. I already have 2 Zeiss ZF lenses that i use for the Letus and have a nikon mount (50mm and 100mm macro), so the plus for nikon is i can mount them, but that shouldn`t be so dramatic as i can simply achieve an adapter for canon.

The first lenses i would like to achieve are 24-70mm 2.8 and 70-200mm IS 2.8 lenses. I heard a new waterproof 24-70mm with VC is coming up next, would you even think about buying a tamron over nikon or canon lenses because of the VC or do third-party lenses always loose against those.

 

[Martin]

Same problem and decision here, however I own 5 canon lens, without that I would go for Nikon, but have no idea what to do now. Saw samples (raw, jpg etc) I just feel I want Nikon but i am not sure if that is wise decision.

 

[jrod]

This is my first post on the side, I have been lurking for a while, but since I also come from a video background and I thought I would share a few of my thoughts.

I think a lot of people miss all the new video features on the mkiii. For one the all I frame compression is a huge benefit when it comes to editing the video later. The D800 does have uncompressed HDMI out but that would require you to also lug around an external recording device (not so much fun when you are shooting an event like a wedding). The other benefit to the mkiii is that its sensor size is perfect for HD video (3x3 pixel binning) this should result in a higher effective resolution, reduced moire, etc (although due to the product not being released this has yet to be verified, but all the videos I have seen seem to support it). And finally the mkiii supports a native extra stop (ISO 12,800) for video as well. All of these add up to a very powerful video camera.

I have been struggling reading all the comments here about the D800 vs MkIII, but when I look at the features I need I am glad I pre-ordered my MkIII.

 

[Jayden01]

Thanks, i would like to read more answers like jrods. +1 for canon so far.

 

[PhilDrinkwater]

Is it to early to decide until the first real life situation tests hit the internet or did you already decide which way to go? I mean most will already have multiple lenses, so the decision is easier. Please help me. I read so much about both cams, that i simply read too much. Both seem to be very nice and i think neither the canon nor the nikon will be a "bad" camera, bit i simply want the best for my needs.

Yes - it's too early to tell which camera will be better for your use but current guestimate would suggest it's the 5d3.

Canon has the better lenses outside of the 14-24 though. The new 24-70 will seal the final deal according to the MTF graphs.

IMO lenses matter more than bodies, especially for video. That's why I don't get all this body discussion - lenses will make MUCH more difference than a bit more resolution. However, Canon lenses aren't exactly cheap.

 

[awinphoto]

Unfortunately until both cameras are released and tested, everything is based on assumption that nothing will change. If video is your main passion, for what it's worth, one of nikons sample videos has been accused of having used Canon 5d2 footage in parts of their video. How true that is, i'm not sure nor am I prepared to really look into. If you also think of it, if i'm not mistaken, this is the 1st Nikon camera to support 1080 video? I think their flagship still had 720? I could be wrong, but basically this is canon's second generation of 1080p, not the first, like nikons, so it can be argued canon has had time to really fine tune the video from first generation to second whereas nikon is getting their feet wet, but with sony in nikons back pocket, i'm sure they are helping nikon catch up. I would probably guess canon has a slight edge in video terms, but probably not as much as one may think.

As far as camera functions, Canon has some advantages such as AF, FPS, customization of buttons and interface, High ISO, highlight tone protection, better mid range to telephoto line up of lenses, whereas nikon has advantages in wide angle lenses, time lapse, wireless commander, DR, super large files and MP... IF you were focused more on photography, nikon has a nice range and tonal range, however the files tend to appear flat and may need more post processing to add contrast and give your files that "pop" it needs to really shine... Canon has more pop, more contrast, more color range, and may need less post production work to get that pop, but it doesn't have more technical range, but in the end, your clients chooses pictures based on emotional and overall impact, not on which has more tonal range.

If your choosing video, it is canons second generation on 1080 HD but nikon also has sony's technology to help even the playing field. While I would want to think canon has an edge there, lets call it a wash for now until further tests are conducted.

Overall systems, Nikon has better wide angle (landscape), Canon has better mid range and telephoto (portrait) lenses... Flashes are debatable and almost a non factor if you get studio strobes. As far as the two cameras, they are too close to really call, but I would wait until you can hold and play with the 2 cameras in the store... If one fits in your hand better and is easier to use, that could be more important than any lab test can ever test. If you choose a camera and it's awkward and you miss a split second shot, is it really a benefit? If your this torn, wait until you can play with both cameras side by side before you make up your mind or you will never know.

 

[Jayden01]

I like you comment and your advice. I appreciate your very differenciated answer!

 

[awinphoto]

I like you comment and your advice. I appreciate your very differenciated answer!

Good luck with your decision and whichever system you choose to invest in, this is a great time to be a photographer!

 

[psolberg]

Add2: Which company has the better lenses. I know that l lenses are the best canon lenses but although read that nikon g lenses are better thatn the canon lenses. I already have 2 Zeiss ZF lenses that i use for the Letus and have a nikon mount (50mm and 100mm macro), so the plus for nikon is i can mount them, but that shouldn`t be so dramatic as i can simply achieve an adapter for canon.

you can't make a general statement because neither one has always the best lenses. Canon has more lenses. That's just a fact. The first question is does canon have something you need that nikon does not? most of the time the answer is no, for most people, but some have special needs that may change that answer. Likewise, nikon has some lenses that canon does not although the number is less.

As far as quality, nikon wide angles like the 14-24, 24 1.4 and 16-35 IS are much better than their canon cousins. Lenses like the 24-70 and 70-200 which are very common are very good on both. The newer canons are more expensive, newer and slightly better but the differences are for pixel peepers to dwell on. Canon definitively has more telephoto choices. But unless you shoot sports or birds, thats irrelevant.

Ultimately both companies are are always updaing and bringing more models. Unless there is a lens you can't live without today, chances are you'll be well served on either side.

The first lenses i would like to achieve are 24-70mm 2.8 and 70-200mm IS 2.8 lenses. I heard a new waterproof 24-70mm with VC is coming up next, would you even think about buying a tamron over nikon or canon lenses because of the VC or do third-party lenses always loose against those.

I think nikon's 24-70 will see a VR/IS version sooner than the canon, but I don't know how soon. Their lens is about half way its normal lifetime so you may indeed have to go 3rd party if IS is what you want. The 70-200 2.8 canon is a tad better and more expensive than the nikon. But IMO neither system has any overwhelming advantage for those two lenses. Its a wash. If the 24-70 II had been IS, I'd think otherwise.

The canon glass only has to resolve to a mere 22MP. If you go with nikon D800, you need good glass. Their lenses are up to the task since the pixel pitch is just about 16MP compared to the 7D, but are the 3rd party lenses up to it? Probably, yet differences in quality control, which 3rd parties are known for will become more obvious.

good luck with your decision.

 

[ajay]

As with others, I too have deliberated between the two. Here are some things to consider:

-- Although 36MP is amazing to view, I would have to upgrade my computer to process the images efficiently. I would also have to increase my storage capacity as well.

-- Same goes for flash memory.

-- 4fps vs 6fps is meaningful. Especially when photographing sports/wildlife. 5DM3 wins here.

-- For landscape photography, the D800 is awesomel. (Occasionally I am asked to provide images that get blown up to wall size. D800 wins here for sure.)

-- Depending upon the lenses used, the D800's resolution advantage may or may not be that different from the 5DM3. (Nikon's 70-200 2.8 lens is not as sharp as Canon's version for example. On the other hand Nikon's 24-70 beats Canon's version (present model))

-- D800 does have other bells and whistles that I might occasionally use... time-lapse video capability, auto focus with f/8 lens + TC combinations

-- D800 autofocuses in video mode. I'd really like for someone to review this. How good is it? If it was fairly accurate and fast, this would be a big plus for me.

-- Having both Canon and Nikon cameras would make things confusing. It's hard enough remembering where all the features can be found through one camera manufacturer's menu structure, having to switch or have both bodies means more learning and remembering where stuff is on each camera. Include buttons, controls in this too.

-- Nikon's D800 is less expensive. Nikon lenses used to be more expensive, but now Canon is upping their prices with new lenses. Nikon seems to be more affordable at this point and time.

-- If the D800 is going to be as big of a success as it's being touted, I seriously doubt Canon will wait too long before they announce a high-resolution, FF camera body as well.

-- Final thought... Before the new cameras were announced, everyone just loved the 5D Mark II. Even back in December when they were on sale, they were being sold like crazy. Now the new cameras are out, and now the 5DM2 has been left in the gutter. Everyone wants the best and latest camera models, even though what they currently own will probably do 90% of what they want in a camera. To me, the 5DM3's new autofocus is HUGE. Canon has addressed my major complaint with that camera. Add 2 fps extra, and now I have an all-around camera that can be used for virtually every type of photography I do.

 

[Jayden01]

Maybe it`s time for the industrie to point out the highest recommended MP-Count for lenses like "Usuable up to 22MP", because i`ve never read about this fact on the manufacturer sites.

I think at the end of the day the price for both systems - fully equipped - is nearly the same. I read about that somewhere so at this point the price doesn`t really have an big impact on the decision.

 

[awinphoto]

Maybe it`s time for the industrie to point out the highest recommended MP-Count for lenses like "Usuable up to 22MP", because i`ve never read about this fact on the manufacturer sites.

I think at the end of the day the price for both systems - fully equipped - is nearly the same. I read about that somewhere so at this point the price doesn`t really have an big impact on the decision.

Lenses/resolution/limits never have been much of a problem before in the past like it is becoming now. Even with that being said, most lenses, even the really really old eos lenses that were geared for film, can be used on the 5d3 manually but image quality may or may not leave you wanting more. Also keep in mind, comparing to Full Frame, the 7D's sensor would be similar to a 45MP sensor on a full frame, and most L lenses work great on that camera... although at times, I found that cameras AF to be faster than the lenses AF, so even though the camera is telling the lens to focus on a football player running zig zag, the some lenses could be a touch behind because it cant keep up. I've found this true on some sigma lenses, and even the 50mm's (across the board), as well as macros... But the 5d3, may or may not have this problem so dont get too worked up. Generally nikons lenses are a touch older than canons, although they are working to update their gear, so their lenses may have similar issues as well. Best idea to use the newest and best lenses you can afford whether it is canon or nikon

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

One thing to consider is comittment to support. Canon has opened a dedicated support center for cineama and broadcast video in Southern California, has and is developing video dedicated lenses. They are in it for the long run.

Nikon seems to have a great product, but has developed a poor reputation for product support and seems to be making things even worse by refusing to sell parts to small local camera repair dealers.

In the long run, for a business, support outweighs a few nice features by a huge amount.

 

[preppyak]

-- D800 autofocuses in video mode. I'd really like for someone to review this. How good is it? If it was fairly accurate and fast, this would be a big plus for me.

IF it's the same phase-detect auto-focus as their previous cameras, it's generally considered to not be good. Certainly not a reason to go Nikon over Canon. You can see a bunch of examples on Youtube, but, its generally much slower and less reliable than the auto-focus you'd be used to from video cameras. I think only the Sony DSLR (A77) has something close to camcorder auto-focus.

Also, you'll get noise from having to press the shutter and hearing it auto-focus, so you'll have to come up with an external sound solution: Nikon D3100: Auto Focus Noise, VR Image Stabilization, and Video Quality

 

[awinphoto]

One thing to consider is comittment to support. Canon has opened a dedicated support center for cineama and broadcast video in Southern California, has and is developing video dedicated lenses. They are in it for the long run.

Nikon seems to have a great product, but has developed a poor reputation for product support and seems to be making things even worse by refusing to sell parts to small local camera repair dealers.

In the long run, for a business, support outweighs a few nice features by a huge amount.

True... also canon has CPS, 3 repair facilities (in the US) 1 on the west coast, 2 on the east, and if you provide them ways to get ahold of you, generally provide good lines of communication if you need to get ahold of them. In terms of head to head, they are really too close to call.

 

[awinphoto]

-- D800 autofocuses in video mode. I'd really like for someone to review this. How good is it? If it was fairly accurate and fast, this would be a big plus for me.

IF it's the same phase-detect auto-focus as their previous cameras, it's generally considered to not be good. Certainly not a reason to go Nikon over Canon. You can see a bunch of examples on Youtube, but, its generally much slower and less reliable than the auto-focus you'd be used to from video cameras. I think only the Sony DSLR (A77) has something close to camcorder auto-focus.

Also, you'll get noise from having to press the shutter and hearing it auto-focus, so you'll have to come up with an external sound solution: Nikon D3100: Auto Focus Noise, VR Image Stabilization, and Video Quality

Holy crap that AF noise is annoying... I thought my IS noise was bad, holy crap batman... Why the heck is it hunting so much so often, the cat isn't really moving that much... You might as well dump all the audio and have a music overlay.

 

[agierke]

since you will be essentially entering into whatever system you end up choosing at the ground level (ie you have no previous gear for either system) i would like to suggest that you dont get too hung up on the whole nikon vs canon debate that is currently raging. the fact of the matter is that both companies are offering tremendous products that are allowing us photographers to produce work at such a high quality and with relatively unprecedented convenience.

i became a canon user in the 90's and since then i have seen 1 constant between the two companies....both of them are highly competitive with each other and each has moments where they are out performing the other for a period of time. its truly one of the greatest rivalries i have seen in any venue (certainly the best in the photography world) and the end result of such competition has been truly amazing advances for the consumer to enjoy.

this trend is not new....its been going on for at least 30 years and im sure will continue for quite some time. it just happens to be particularly heated at the moment. whichever system you choose, you may find in the near future the other company comes out with a feature you wish your camera had. but its cyclical so patience and a level head can be a saving grace.

also understand that both systems on the high end are capable of producing work (in the right hands) that far exceeds the expectations or awareness of many clients...either commercially or private. i often shoot at the highest capabilities of my gear for my own edification and end up "dumbing" down the output so that my clients are capable of handling the files in a convenient way. i am a still photographer though so i am not sure how that would translate to a video format.

either camera system will be tremendous for you i'm sure. both will probably have idiosyncrasies that you wish they didnt have. i dont think it can be overstated that one of the most important factors to you may end up being how each one handles. being comfortable with the feel and operation of your system will allow you to focus on craft and creative decision making which in the end will impact your product much greater than any spec you could micro analyze.

if i were you i would test each camera as soon as you can get your hands on one (rental) and make the decision based on those results that you personally come up with. no one here can definitively tell you which camera will be better for you, especially since no one has had an opportunity to put real time behind both cameras and provide real world test results. plus no one here can know your personal preferences...

 

[iso79]

Why Canon is better:

-Better ergonomics. When you put it in your hand it fits like a glove.
-Buttons and switches are in the right place. You don't need to press two buttons do one function.
-Easy to use interface.
-Better color and white balance.
-Better lenses and selection.
-Faster initial focus acquisition.

 

[jaduffy007]

Hi Jayden,

Luckily, you can't go seriously wrong either way.

If you read my other posts, you will quickly see I'm a big fan of the D800 over the 5d3.

ISO: With RAW files, 5d3 and D800 are practically identical. Downsize the D800 files for even better results!
Dynamic Range: D800 is the clear winner
Resolution: D800 is the clear winner

Lenses: Other than Canon's f4 lenses (very nice), I see the lens line ups as equal, though Canon has recently become the more expensive of the two.

Video: Recording to the internal cards, the 5d3 so far appears to be a little better than D800. Less rolling shutter and moire. With the D800 if you record to an external recorder like the Atomos Ninja ($1000) or Black Magic Intensity Shuttle ($200), it *might* take the video quality to a whole new level, but I haven't seen any comparisons yet. The D800's uncompressed 4;2;2 should have serious advantages, but that remains to be seen.

File size / storage / computer power: In my opinion, waaay too much is being made of D800 file sizes vs 5d3. No big deal.

Price: D800 is $500 less.

Good luck!

 

[pdirestajr]

Another + about the 5D Mk III (or any Canon DSLR), with regards to video, is that you can use a LOT of lenses from other brands (with an adapter). I have a set of nice old MF Nikon Primes that I use on my Canon!

Not sure how versatile Nikon is in that area.