Have you considered joining the dark side?...

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unfocused said:
I never thought I'd consider switching brands, as I've been a Canon user for nearly 40 years.

But, if I ever switch it will not be because of bodies, but because of lens prices. I chose Canon many years ago because their prices were lower for comparable lenses. I am afraid they are losing that edge. Bodies will come and go, but lenses are the long-term and larger investment. If Canon cannot remain competitive in its lens pricing I may have to rethink my investment.
I think part of what kept Canon competitive in lens pricing was the fact that many of their primes were older. Sure, they made them right and they are good, but, until the 24mm and 28mm, there wasn't a non-L prime that was made in the 2000's. It's easy to keep prices low when you aren't updating lenses for 20 years.

I think you have good reason to be worried for the future. The pancake 40mm is the only lens Canon has put out <$1000 that seems to match its price. Also, if Canon's non-L strategy is to go f/2.8 and IS, instead of f/1.8. Because Nikon and Canon's recent 28mm offerings are similarly priced, but Nikon does f/1.8, and Canon does f/2.8IS
 
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RLPhoto said:
julescar said:
I own both the D800 and 5D mk III and they are both fantastic cameras, each has advantages depending on the type of photography you wish to do. The D800 has very good resolution and very good dynamic range especially in bringing out detail in shadow/darker areas. The 5D has a much better focus system (with the lenses i use) and it also has a far more natural default (AWB) colour balance. I use the D800 for product photograph/very large print jobs in a studio environment, it is as an alternative to a large format camera. If i leave the studio, I always take the 5D mkIII. I think the 5D mk iii is a much better all round camera (on the go) with a much better build quality, it feels more solid/robust. In the end this is only my opinion, I really think which ever camera you buy you won't be disappointed, if you wish to use them as camera's to take great photos or a tool for a specific purpose. There are plenty of good articles that compare the usefulness of both in a balanced way, the articles that are balanced are far more useful and much closer to reality that the various rants you will also find.

I wouldn't consider the D800 as a replacement for Large format but definitely a change for low MP medium format backs.

I agree totally, as a replacement to a 25mp - 30 mp medium format.... Is what I specifically meant, thanks for clarifying my statement.
 
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preppyak said:
unfocused said:
I never thought I'd consider switching brands, as I've been a Canon user for nearly 40 years.

But, if I ever switch it will not be because of bodies, but because of lens prices. I chose Canon many years ago because their prices were lower for comparable lenses. I am afraid they are losing that edge. Bodies will come and go, but lenses are the long-term and larger investment. If Canon cannot remain competitive in its lens pricing I may have to rethink my investment.
I think part of what kept Canon competitive in lens pricing was the fact that many of their primes were older. Sure, they made them right and they are good, but, until the 24mm and 28mm, there wasn't a non-L prime that was made in the 2000's. It's easy to keep prices low when you aren't updating lenses for 20 years.

I think you have good reason to be worried for the future. The pancake 40mm is the only lens Canon has put out <$1000 that seems to match its price. Also, if Canon's non-L strategy is to go f/2.8 and IS, instead of f/1.8. Because Nikon and Canon's recent 28mm offerings are similarly priced, but Nikon does f/1.8, and Canon does f/2.8IS

I was really excited for the 24/28 until I found out their prices. It's kind of pointless to spend 700+ on a non-L prime. Something tells me they could make them cheaper, but won't.
 
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Assuming the d600 has a similar sensor to the d800 in terms of dr - i'll be adding that to my kit. Alternatively if Nikon wise up and add a sRaw and mRaw to the d800 then I'd just grab that for a studio camera. I don't need or want 36MP as it is 18 on my 1DX is plenty for most applications.

If canon actually release a large MP sensor then obviously my money will go there assuming it doesn't have any of the 5 series sensor flaws.
 
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I went Nikon D800 around 10 days ago. I bought the 24-70 F2.8, 70-200 F2.8 VRII, 85mm and 50mm 1.8G's.

The 24-70 is excellent and better than the Canon 1 version, but not sure about the 2, as it might not be released in my lifetime, like too many Canon products lately :-)

I have photographs to take, not pre orders to wait a lifetime for. I've cut my losses and they are huge, but you do what you have to do.

The 70-200 2.8 VRII is on par with the Canon, but the 50mm and 85mm 1.8G's are definitely better, maybe by virtue of the age of Canon's non L offerings, which are very old indeed. Even their L 50mm 1.2 is knocking on now.

Who needs an L when you've got the 1.8G's or 1.4 G's?

Since then the D800 has continued to impress in IQ again and again. 5x4 modes, 1.2 crop, DX, and there's simply no question, the D800 sensor blows the Mk3 away.

Here's some test on Facebook I left public. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.387084584687378.91065.100001575187556&type=3

I keep pulling in shadow detail just to see it happen on the D800. It's such fun to see complete black turn into smooth detail, and not a green blotchy vertically banded mess like the Mk3. How they spent 3.5 years on this camera and didn't solve that, I do not know.

That was the last straw for me and Canon I'm afraid. Then they want to charge an extra $500 for it? I'm the fool, I actually paid it, in trust that they had actually done some work in 3.5 years.

Apparently they went home a lot earlier than Sony/Nikon engineers.

I had the Canon film cams, the D60, the 400D, the 5D Mk1, the Mk2, and when I got the Mk3, I was so underwhelmed with image improvements, that I started reading up on the D800, and looking at Nikon for the first time in 21 years of DSLR ownership, of which the the last 5 are as a professional.

The shadows in the D800 are on another planet, and the highlights hold their fine detail way better.

The fantastic resolution comes without an ISO penalty, and add to that 2-3 stops wider DR, and it's not if the D800 beats the Mk3, but more, how on earth did Sony/Nikon manage to triple the D3s/D700 res, increase DR, and produce clean, non blotchy shadow details with no vertical banding or sensor patterns?

Those guys have performed miracles.

In the end I gave up caring and took the plunge, laid down $9500 and made the move. 6 shoots later, I'm more impressed than ever.

Today I was asked, for the first time in ages, to shoot 5/4. No problem on the D800.

Instead of having to guess the crop, as I would on my Mk2, or Mk3, I switched to 5/4 crop, which is still a 30 meg, 14 stop DR file.

I have the 1.2 crop, and the DX crop for sports or concerts, where reach becomes important and 15 meg DX mode is fine.

It's a very flexible and logical approach, rather than the Mk3's 22 meg, no crop, you get what's in the viewfinder approach.

We have digital flexibility, let's use it. sRaw is ok, but crops are where it's at.

It took a little while to adapt to Nikon's way of doing things, and as I do, the qualities of the camera improve.

The anti clockwise mount was an odd one, and I'm getting used to the menu structure, and less than inspiring placement of the buttons.

And surprise of surprises, after thinking the rate button was useless beofre the Mk3 release, I ended up using it a lot between shoot setups to sort files for the 6 weeks I used the Mk3, and now on the Nikon, I really miss it.

My simplistic view is that Canon simply cannot develop a modern sensor, with a clean noise floor at 22 meg, let alone 36, and the lack f DR, by 2-3 stops is alarming for someone like Canon.

I waited 3.5 years for the Mk3, and barely saw much improvement, if you don't shoot at 3200 often.

A great focus system and a few button changes are really all they seemed to add. But then nikon;s have had a great focus system for 3 years on the D3/D700, and I'm tired of pretending that they didn't.

I supported Canon, but I drew the line at fanboy talk. They simply under specced the Mk2 in the focus area and patter noise, then under specced the Mk3 in IQ.

And upon researching the Nikon system, it became obvious how old the Canon glass was becoming. I had no idea been a Canon man.

They key Nikon lenses I bought are all less than 3 years old in release, and there's no doubt, where I needed L on Canon (50mm 1.2, 85mm 1.2 etc) the $250 50mm 1.8G and $500 85mm 1.8G (don't need the 1.2, but need the optical quality) are superb lenses, far superior to Canon's non L 1.8 and 1.4, and pretty much on par with the L's for most usage.

The D800 has been used on 6 shoots now, and the following is something I wrote for friends a week ago on Facebook after only one.

I've been Canon for 20 years or so, but really, I don't care about logos.

The D800 is the biggest leap forward in many a year. I simply don't think Canon even have the know how to beat it, or they prefer making cinema cameras, but for whatever reason, the D800 sensor has embarrassed Canon immensely imho.

If the tech guys at Canon have looked at he D800 output, they must be feeling pretty low right about now.

I wrote the following, as I said, a week ago, but most still stands, and if anything, I'm more impressed now than I was then.


My Facebook review from a week ago just for reference:

For anyone interested in my 5D Mk3 to D800 transition, I've just finished the first proper shoot with the D800.

The 24-70 F2.8 Nikon lens is so sharp you could cut yourself on it. Better than the Canon 24-70, but likely the same as the new Canon 24-70 ii.

The 50mm F1.8G is superb and just about the bargain of the photography world.

The D800 is not as ergonomic as the Mk3, which is a beautiful camera to use. The Nikon just doesn't 'feel' like an extension of your hands like the Mk3 does.

The image review zoom, colour rendition on the lcd screen, etc is pretty poor on the Nikon, while the Mk3 is superb.

Focus is good on the Nikon, but it can't compare to the Mk3's amazing ability to focus in almost blackness. They are a long way apart, and even more so on the non cross Nikon points, which is all of the side points, making me go back to focus and slide, which I'd stopped doing since getting the Mk3.

Custom white balance is better on the Nikon with tint options as well as colour temp.

For fun I let it do auto white balance and it seems better than the Canon, which can change from shot to shot, even when the camera hasn't moved, and nothings changed.

Again for fun I let it auto expose daylight scenes and it feels more consistent than the mk3.

Of course, for most of us, that stuff is neither there nor there, as we manual everything.

The lcd screen has a green tint, which Nikon is claiming is more accurate.

It's not, it's bloody horrible and doesn't match a calibrated screen or a print. It makes skin look ridiculous.

That's a major mess up I hope they put right in firmware.

Image quality? This is as good as it gets before Medium format, and really, it's closed the gap to MF significantly.

Certainly looks like a Pentax 645D, maybe not the 60 meg or 80 meg Phase one's but it's a major quality leap for DSLR's.

If they leap again like this in 3 years, MF will be dead in the water, and you'd really, really need MF now, to justify not going D800.

It's killed my MF desires for now.

Crop modes? Being 36 meg FF, it's like having a 7D built in, as you have 16 meg or so in cropped DX mode, if you need zoom reach, or are shooting products and want more DOF.

So a 200mm becomes a 300mm, and so forth.

Being able to shoot with a 50mm from waist to top of hair, then crop to the face, and still have 15-20 meg is something that makes the camera spectacularly flexible.

A 50mm in DX is 75mm, a 100mm is 150mm and so on, and of course you can just shoot in FX and crop later, leaving choices till later.

That flexibility becomes a very powerful tool if you use it.

ISO? People say the Mk3 and D800 are similar. They are if you scale the D800 from 36 meg to 22, which might be the fairest method.

At 1:1, the D800 has more noise, but it's not colour noise, and looks nicely film like, but in truth, by the time you've printed it, even at 20x30inch, I doubt if you'd see any noise in a print from a 3200-6400 D800 file, as it's just so fine.

Best cam? I think the Mk3 is the best all round camera out there. It can do anything, and is a jack of all trades, and master of some, but for me, and it's just me, it lacks in the specific areas I do 90% of my work.

Premium quality studio work? The D800 hands down.

IQ in highlights and shadows is simply unparallelled, but if you're shooting weddings, you likely won't care, as the ISO, focus, comfy 22 meg files, and spectacular focus system and ergonomics of the Mk3 make it a joy to use for that.

I don't shoot weddings, and I rarely go over 1600 ISO, so a lot of the excellent advantages the Mk3 has, I don't need.

The perfect 2012 camera would be:

D800 sensor.

Mk3 screen, ergonomics, focus system, hi ISO performance, video quality.

I have to say, I think the 50mm and 85mm F1.4 and F1.8 Nikon lenses kill the Canon's.

Canon need the sub $1000 lenses improving with new releases. The Nikon's push the Canon L's and cost a third of the L's.

The 70-200 F2.8's are the same on both systems, just amazing, and the 24-70 F2.8 are about the same ONCE Canon release the ii version.

Hope someone found this useful :-)
 
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I already have after selling the mark III + 35.4L and jumping over the D3S side.

Although I still have a mark II and the 70-200IIL, my main body is the D3S with 35G, 85G and the 105DC.

I am however not 100% happy with the change no matter how much better I think the lenses are etc simply because of one thing I just found out about...

The HK Nikon Customer Services suck big time compared to Canon.

To cut a long story short, I bought a brand new 85.4G and there was a speck of something inside so in it went to the repair dept... 2 weeks later the large speck had gone but it was replaced by 4 smaller specks and a smudge (seems like they wiped it with a dirty cloth or something) and it's spread over different lens elements! The CS didn't even see what I was trying to point out at the time too cos he was holding it up to a bright light source all the time with the light oversaturating the zillions of tiny specks of particles.
 
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This is a nice post. The only reason I'm not switching is nikons primes lack any uniqueness in their rendering.

I've shot primes all my life, from many different manufacturers from MF hasselblads, contax/zeiss, yashica, Minolta and of course canon.

Nikons 24mm f1.4G took ages to be released and once it was. It was more expensive than canons offering.

Nikons 50mm's has horrendous bokeh and no f/1.2 offering.

Nikon doesn't make a modern 135mm f/2. It's DC version is horrible compared to the canon.

Otherwise, sure I'd be with Nikon, but there primes lack character.
 
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I have thought many times of jumping ship. I have been waiting over 2 years for the new Canon flagship camera to be launched and when the 1D X was announced I was ecstatic! But this is also where all my doubts started... Delays upon delays just frustrated me and now the way Canon is handling the camera distribution is really annoying me and truth be told... I am not happy with Canon at the moment.

But I also know dumping a top brand you need something better to jump to and in this regard I have absolutely nowhere to go. Doesn't help jumping ship if you will just land in the water - you need something to jump to. The only way I will drop Canon at the moment is if I give up my photographic profession completely... and I have more of a passion for the art than I have a grudge against Canon ;)
 
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RLPhoto said:
This is a nice post. The only reason I'm not switching is nikons primes lack any uniqueness in their rendering.

I've shot primes all my life, from many different manufacturers from MF hasselblads, contax/zeiss, yashica, Minolta and of course canon.

Nikons 24mm f1.4G took ages to be released and once it was. It was more expensive than canons offering.

Nikons 50mm's has horrendous bokeh and no f/1.2 offering.

Nikon doesn't make a modern 135mm f/2. It's DC version is horrible compared to the canon.

Otherwise, sure I'd be with Nikon, but there primes lack character.

Not sure where you're getting the info about Nikon primes. The newer G primes blow Canon's mid-price offerings out of the water. I'm not made of money so I can't comment on the lack of a 50/1.2, but my 50/1.4G is much better than my old Canon 50/1.4, both in build quality and sharpness/bokeh below f/2. The 85/1.8G is mindblowingly good for the price; supremely sharp in the center straight from wide open, sharp across the frame by f/2.8, with very smooth bokeh and very fast AF. Canon does not have a portrait lens even remotely close in the $500 ballpark.

The fact that Nikon is updating their consumer primes without inflating the price is great news for non-professionals like myself.

As for the "horrendous bokeh" of nikon's 50, I don't think these look to bad to me :) http://500px.com/photo/8157866, http://500px.com/photo/8157779
 
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weekendshooter said:
RLPhoto said:
This is a nice post. The only reason I'm not switching is nikons primes lack any uniqueness in their rendering.

I've shot primes all my life, from many different manufacturers from MF hasselblads, contax/zeiss, yashica, Minolta and of course canon.

Nikons 24mm f1.4G took ages to be released and once it was. It was more expensive than canons offering.

Nikons 50mm's has horrendous bokeh and no f/1.2 offering.

Nikon doesn't make a modern 135mm f/2. It's DC version is horrible compared to the canon.

Otherwise, sure I'd be with Nikon, but there primes lack character.

Not sure where you're getting the info about Nikon primes. The newer G primes blow Canon's mid-price offerings out of the water. I'm not made of money so I can't comment on the lack of a 50/1.2, but my 50/1.4G is much better than my old Canon 50/1.4, both in build quality and sharpness/bokeh below f/2. The 85/1.8G is mindblowingly good for the price; supremely sharp in the center straight from wide open, sharp across the frame by f/2.8, with very smooth bokeh and very fast AF. Canon does not have a portrait lens even remotely close in the $500 ballpark.

The fact that Nikon is updating their consumer primes without inflating the price is great news for non-professionals like myself.

As for the "horrendous bokeh" of nikon's 50, I don't think these look to bad to me :) http://500px.com/photo/8157866, http://500px.com/photo/8157779

Ok, Lets begin...

Canon 24L II - 1629$
Nikon 24G 1.4 - 1899$
Done.

Canons 1.4 and Nikons 1.4 50MM's have almost identical performance. Feel free to check it here.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=115&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=636&CameraComp=614&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=1

Here an example of the 50mm 1.2L stunning bokeh that looks awesome swirling around the subject. Nothing i've ever seen besides the leica 50mm's and MF 80mm's zeiss F/2.8

Canons 85mm 1.8 and canons 100mm F/2 both provide excellent performance wide open and have been around for ages with USM. All for Sub-500$ 8)

As for the Canon 135 F2L and the Nikkor 135mm f/2 DC, Feel free to see the stunning amount of CA's in the nikkor here and compare.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=108&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=646&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

I Know my primes very well, and Like I said earlier, If the nikon primes were better, I'd be shooting Nikon.
 

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RLPhoto said:
I Know my primes very well, and Like I said earlier, If the nikon primes were better, I'd be shooting Nikon.

Depends what you shoot, of course.
How about compare the Nikkor 85/1.4 D to the Sigma 85/1.4, Zeiss Planar, and the EF 85/1.2L and Samyang 85/1.4.
And then take a look at Nikon's latest 85/1.4 G. Out of all of them, it's the one i'd pick (if I had a nikon camera, or a G-EF adapter, apparently they're available somewhere).


And how did this go from film to yet-another-5D3-vs-d800 thread?
Should I be buying a Mamiya 645 (with all its history and lens availability), or the Contax 645 (with its nice zeiss glass), or a Pentax 645 (with no interchangeable backs, one main reason i'm thinking of MF at all)?
 
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dr croubie said:
RLPhoto said:
I Know my primes very well, and Like I said earlier, If the nikon primes were better, I'd be shooting Nikon.

Depends what you shoot, of course.
How about compare the Nikkor 85/1.4 D to the Sigma 85/1.4, Zeiss Planar, and the EF 85/1.2L and Samyang 85/1.4.
And then take a look at Nikon's latest 85/1.4 G. Out of all of them, it's the one i'd pick (if I had a nikon camera, or a G-EF adapter, apparently they're available somewhere).


And how did this go from film to yet-another-5D3-vs-d800 thread?
Should I be buying a Mamiya 645 (with all its history and lens availability), or the Contax 645 (with its nice zeiss glass), or a Pentax 645 (with no interchangeable backs, one main reason i'm thinking of MF at all)?

I'd get the 85L personally, Its sharp wide-open and is the GOLDEN STANDARD in which every other 85mm is compared to and wishes it could be. 8) It comes back to my Original post of nikkors glass not having something unique to it.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=397&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=1&LensComp=732&CameraComp=614&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

The nikkor 85G would be a second choice if the 85L wasn't available. I cannot deny it is a cream machine. :o
 
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RLPhoto said:
weekendshooter said:
RLPhoto said:
This is a nice post. The only reason I'm not switching is nikons primes lack any uniqueness in their rendering.

I've shot primes all my life, from many different manufacturers from MF hasselblads, contax/zeiss, yashica, Minolta and of course canon.

Nikons 24mm f1.4G took ages to be released and once it was. It was more expensive than canons offering.

Nikons 50mm's has horrendous bokeh and no f/1.2 offering.

Nikon doesn't make a modern 135mm f/2. It's DC version is horrible compared to the canon.

Otherwise, sure I'd be with Nikon, but there primes lack character.

Not sure where you're getting the info about Nikon primes. The newer G primes blow Canon's mid-price offerings out of the water. I'm not made of money so I can't comment on the lack of a 50/1.2, but my 50/1.4G is much better than my old Canon 50/1.4, both in build quality and sharpness/bokeh below f/2. The 85/1.8G is mindblowingly good for the price; supremely sharp in the center straight from wide open, sharp across the frame by f/2.8, with very smooth bokeh and very fast AF. Canon does not have a portrait lens even remotely close in the $500 ballpark.

The fact that Nikon is updating their consumer primes without inflating the price is great news for non-professionals like myself.

As for the "horrendous bokeh" of nikon's 50, I don't think these look to bad to me :) http://500px.com/photo/8157866, http://500px.com/photo/8157779

Ok, Lets begin...

Canon 24L II - 1629$
Nikon 24G 1.4 - 1899$
Done.

Canons 1.4 and Nikons 1.4 50MM's have almost identical performance. Feel free to check it here.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=115&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=636&CameraComp=614&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=1

Here an example of the 50mm 1.2L stunning bokeh that looks awesome swirling around the subject. Nothing i've ever seen besides the leica 50mm's and MF 80mm's zeiss F/2.8

Canons 85mm 1.8 and canons 100mm F/2 both provide excellent performance wide open and have been around for ages with USM. All for Sub-500$ 8)

As for the Canon 135 F2L and the Nikkor 135mm f/2 DC, Feel free to see the stunning amount of CA's in the nikkor here and compare.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=108&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=646&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

I Know my primes very well, and Like I said earlier, If the nikon primes were better, I'd be shooting Nikon.

The Canon 85/1.8 and 100/2 are outdated designs with flimsy build quality, straight aperture blades, "horrendous bokeh," and huge amounts of purple fringing. Likewise for the fragile, old 50/1.4. Nikon's 50/1.4G is built like a tank and handles considerably better than Canon's 1.4. I wouldn't shoot either of them at f/1.4, but my experience has been that the Nikon can be left at f/1.8 for center-focused shots, while the Canon should be stopped down further for acceptable contrast.

You've been comparing apples to oranges throughout this whole thread. I'm aware Nikon doesn't make a 50/1.2. I wouldn't buy one if they did; the bokeh in that picture looks terribly distracting and ruins the shot for me.

I'm not a professional photographer, but I do take pride in my hobby and I look for good value in my lenses. Canon does not offer anything worthwhile for me right now, as I am not in the market to spend $1500-2000 on each of my primes. The first two new sub-L primes in ages (24 and 28) are f/2.8 and extremely expensive for what they offer. For my money, I'd much rather buy Nikon's new primes, which are competitive on price with Canon's old midrange primes while featuring new designs and coatings.

I'm not looking to argue, just pointing out that we have different perspectives and that there is really something for everyone in each camp. If i could afford to get a set of 35/50/85/135L primes then I would be shooting Canon, but as it stands the Nikon G primes far exceed the performance of Canon's midrange lineup. I also noticed you pointed out that the Nikon 24G lens is priced higher than the Canon equivalent. You should consider that Canon is planning a $2300 24-70 and two $800 f/2.8 wide primes, along with a $3500 5D3. Nikon's 24-70 is $1800 and they just released a 28/1.8 for $700 to pair with a $3000 D800. I'm scared to think what will happen to prices when Canon decides to update the rest of their aging lineup.
 
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weekendshooter said:
RLPhoto said:
weekendshooter said:
RLPhoto said:
This is a nice post. The only reason I'm not switching is nikons primes lack any uniqueness in their rendering.

I've shot primes all my life, from many different manufacturers from MF hasselblads, contax/zeiss, yashica, Minolta and of course canon.

Nikons 24mm f1.4G took ages to be released and once it was. It was more expensive than canons offering.

Nikons 50mm's has horrendous bokeh and no f/1.2 offering.

Nikon doesn't make a modern 135mm f/2. It's DC version is horrible compared to the canon.

Otherwise, sure I'd be with Nikon, but there primes lack character.

Not sure where you're getting the info about Nikon primes. The newer G primes blow Canon's mid-price offerings out of the water. I'm not made of money so I can't comment on the lack of a 50/1.2, but my 50/1.4G is much better than my old Canon 50/1.4, both in build quality and sharpness/bokeh below f/2. The 85/1.8G is mindblowingly good for the price; supremely sharp in the center straight from wide open, sharp across the frame by f/2.8, with very smooth bokeh and very fast AF. Canon does not have a portrait lens even remotely close in the $500 ballpark.

The fact that Nikon is updating their consumer primes without inflating the price is great news for non-professionals like myself.

As for the "horrendous bokeh" of nikon's 50, I don't think these look to bad to me :) http://500px.com/photo/8157866, http://500px.com/photo/8157779

Ok, Lets begin...

Canon 24L II - 1629$
Nikon 24G 1.4 - 1899$
Done.

Canons 1.4 and Nikons 1.4 50MM's have almost identical performance. Feel free to check it here.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=115&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=636&CameraComp=614&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=1

Here an example of the 50mm 1.2L stunning bokeh that looks awesome swirling around the subject. Nothing i've ever seen besides the leica 50mm's and MF 80mm's zeiss F/2.8

Canons 85mm 1.8 and canons 100mm F/2 both provide excellent performance wide open and have been around for ages with USM. All for Sub-500$ 8)

As for the Canon 135 F2L and the Nikkor 135mm f/2 DC, Feel free to see the stunning amount of CA's in the nikkor here and compare.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=108&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=646&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

I Know my primes very well, and Like I said earlier, If the nikon primes were better, I'd be shooting Nikon.

The Canon 85/1.8 and 100/2 are outdated designs with flimsy build quality, straight aperture blades, "horrendous bokeh," and huge amounts of purple fringing. Likewise for the fragile, old 50/1.4. Nikon's 50/1.4G is built like a tank and handles considerably better than Canon's 1.4. I wouldn't shoot either of them at f/1.4, but my experience has been that the Nikon can be left at f/1.8 for center-focused shots, while the Canon should be stopped down further for acceptable contrast.

You've been comparing apples to oranges throughout this whole thread. I'm aware Nikon doesn't make a 50/1.2. I wouldn't buy one if they did; the bokeh in that picture looks terribly distracting and ruins the shot for me.

I'm not a professional photographer, but I do take pride in my hobby and I look for good value in my lenses. Canon does not offer anything worthwhile for me right now, as I am not in the market to spend $1500-2000 on each of my primes. The first two new sub-L primes in ages (24 and 28) are f/2.8 and extremely expensive for what they offer. For my money, I'd much rather buy Nikon's new primes, which are competitive on price with Canon's old midrange primes while featuring new designs and coatings.

I'm not looking to argue, just pointing out that we have different perspectives and that there is really something for everyone in each camp. If i could afford to get a set of 35/50/85/135L primes then I would be shooting Canon, but as it stands the Nikon G primes far exceed the performance of Canon's midrange lineup. I also noticed you pointed out that the Nikon 24G lens is priced higher than the Canon equivalent. You should consider that Canon is planning a $2300 24-70 and two $800 f/2.8 wide primes, along with a $3500 5D3. Nikon's 24-70 is $1800 and they just released a 28/1.8 for $700 to pair with a $3000 D800. I'm scared to think what will happen to prices when Canon decides to update the rest of their aging lineup.

You both make some good points...Three points I would add, just my opinion:

1. The new Nikon 85 1.8g is a much better lens compared to the canon 85 1.8 or 100 f2 for roughly the same money and focal length. The Nikon 1.8g is so good that if Canon had it/made it, it would make it seem silly to buy the 85L.

2. The 50's are very comparable at the sub $500 price range...the canon 50 1.2 isn't worth the extra money.

3. Canon clearly has Nikon beat starting at 135 and then again with the 200 2.8. Nikon has no good answer for these, especially when you consider their price, speed, and IQ.

4. For the money, (and I know I'm early in writing this) the Nikon 24-70 is already legendary and priced several hundred below the new canon 24-70 ii....we'll see soon, but I doubt the canon is any better.
 
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weekendshooter said:
RLPhoto said:
weekendshooter said:
RLPhoto said:
This is a nice post. The only reason I'm not switching is nikons primes lack any uniqueness in their rendering.

I've shot primes all my life, from many different manufacturers from MF hasselblads, contax/zeiss, yashica, Minolta and of course canon.

Nikons 24mm f1.4G took ages to be released and once it was. It was more expensive than canons offering.

Nikons 50mm's has horrendous bokeh and no f/1.2 offering.

Nikon doesn't make a modern 135mm f/2. It's DC version is horrible compared to the canon.

Otherwise, sure I'd be with Nikon, but there primes lack character.

Not sure where you're getting the info about Nikon primes. The newer G primes blow Canon's mid-price offerings out of the water. I'm not made of money so I can't comment on the lack of a 50/1.2, but my 50/1.4G is much better than my old Canon 50/1.4, both in build quality and sharpness/bokeh below f/2. The 85/1.8G is mindblowingly good for the price; supremely sharp in the center straight from wide open, sharp across the frame by f/2.8, with very smooth bokeh and very fast AF. Canon does not have a portrait lens even remotely close in the $500 ballpark.

The fact that Nikon is updating their consumer primes without inflating the price is great news for non-professionals like myself.

As for the "horrendous bokeh" of nikon's 50, I don't think these look to bad to me :) http://500px.com/photo/8157866, http://500px.com/photo/8157779

Ok, Lets begin...

Canon 24L II - 1629$
Nikon 24G 1.4 - 1899$
Done.

Canons 1.4 and Nikons 1.4 50MM's have almost identical performance. Feel free to check it here.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=115&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=636&CameraComp=614&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=1

Here an example of the 50mm 1.2L stunning bokeh that looks awesome swirling around the subject. Nothing i've ever seen besides the leica 50mm's and MF 80mm's zeiss F/2.8

Canons 85mm 1.8 and canons 100mm F/2 both provide excellent performance wide open and have been around for ages with USM. All for Sub-500$ 8)

As for the Canon 135 F2L and the Nikkor 135mm f/2 DC, Feel free to see the stunning amount of CA's in the nikkor here and compare.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=108&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=646&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

I Know my primes very well, and Like I said earlier, If the nikon primes were better, I'd be shooting Nikon.

The Canon 85/1.8 and 100/2 are outdated designs with flimsy build quality, straight aperture blades, "horrendous bokeh," and huge amounts of purple fringing. Likewise for the fragile, old 50/1.4. Nikon's 50/1.4G is built like a tank and handles considerably better than Canon's 1.4. I wouldn't shoot either of them at f/1.4, but my experience has been that the Nikon can be left at f/1.8 for center-focused shots, while the Canon should be stopped down further for acceptable contrast.

You've been comparing apples to oranges throughout this whole thread. I'm aware Nikon doesn't make a 50/1.2. I wouldn't buy one if they did; the bokeh in that picture looks terribly distracting and ruins the shot for me.

I'm not a professional photographer, but I do take pride in my hobby and I look for good value in my lenses. Canon does not offer anything worthwhile for me right now, as I am not in the market to spend $1500-2000 on each of my primes. The first two new sub-L primes in ages (24 and 28) are f/2.8 and extremely expensive for what they offer. For my money, I'd much rather buy Nikon's new primes, which are competitive on price with Canon's old midrange primes while featuring new designs and coatings.

I'm not looking to argue, just pointing out that we have different perspectives and that there is really something for everyone in each camp. If i could afford to get a set of 35/50/85/135L primes then I would be shooting Canon, but as it stands the Nikon G primes far exceed the performance of Canon's midrange lineup. I also noticed you pointed out that the Nikon 24G lens is priced higher than the Canon equivalent. You should consider that Canon is planning a $2300 24-70 and two $800 f/2.8 wide primes, along with a $3500 5D3. Nikon's 24-70 is $1800 and they just released a 28/1.8 for $700 to pair with a $3000 D800. I'm scared to think what will happen to prices when Canon decides to update the rest of their aging lineup.

I Loled when you mentioned canon using "Outdated Designs". Nikon still makes lenses that AF with a screw in the Body! How outdated are we again? :o

Don't forget that nikon barely made their 85 1.8G while us canon prime users have had the just as good 85mm 1.8 and the even better performing 100mm F/2 since the 80's WITH USM! Check the tests here for yourself and heres a photo of the 100mm's superb creamy bokeh. The Nikon has terrible CA.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=118&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=791&CameraComp=614&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

Back to 50mm's, Nikon and canon non-pro grade 1.4 lenses have the same build quality. Posh plastics with metal mounts but it took nikon ages to finally make a 50mm with Full time manual focus override. (AF-D series anyone?) While canon has had this for decades.

The 50L has the best bokeh available in an 35mm SLR system from that focal length, Period. It's a lens that has character in which i've never seen in any of nikons 50mm's, which is the whole point. CHARACTER.

Canon has had a 28mm 1.8 for ages again and nikon finally released one a decade later that has full-time manual override. Its 300$ more expensive! Does it perform better? Maybe, but its alittle too late.

The 24 & 28 2.8 IS primes cannot be compared to anything at the moment because frankly, There is nothing to compete against them from any manufacturer. First Wide-Angle IS primes ever.

The Canon 24-70II or Nikon version has no relevance to the subject of Primes. Bodies have no relevance either. I wrote my opinion on canon primes based on solid evidence, Fact's and first hand experience.

As for nikon blowing canons prime offerings out of the water, you are sadly mistaken.

D30 - 100mm F/2 @ F/2
 

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RLPhoto said:
weekendshooter said:
RLPhoto said:
weekendshooter said:
RLPhoto said:
This is a nice post. The only reason I'm not switching is nikons primes lack any uniqueness in their rendering.


Don't forget that nikon barely made their 85 1.8G while us canon prime users have had the just as good 85mm 1.8 and the even better performing 100mm F/2 since the 80's WITH USM! Check the tests here for yourself and heres a photo of the 100mm's superb creamy bokeh. The Nikon has terrible CA.

Canonites have had the USM in the 85 1.8 for a long time, BUT, Nikon's 85 1.8d is also very highly regarded and it's just as good as the canon 85 1.8(better in some ways worse in others depending on your preference) The new Nikon 1.8G is much better than the Canon 85 1.8 or 100 f2.

http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/100/cat/12

The 50L has the best bokeh available in an 35mm SLR system from that focal length, Period. It's a lens that has character in which i've never seen in any of nikons 50mm's, which is the whole point. CHARACTER.

It's also a terrible waste of money since 99 out of 100 people couldn't tell the difference between a shot taken with the 1.4 and the way overpriced 1.2.

As for nikon blowing canons prime offerings out of the water, you are sadly mistaken.

I agree with this...but Nikon is close and has been rapidly closing over last several years.

Nice shot of the sheperd
 
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