Here is the Canon Cinema EOS C70

[Darecinema]

Which is which is weird, I wonder what goes into the decision to include or not include the Log 2/3 profiles? It used to be a paid upgrade for regular log. I wonder what the tangible difference is?

You have to think at least offering a paid upgrade for log profiles and no 29:59 min record limit would reduce the number of product returns. It has to expensive reselling open box or refurbished. I hit the 29:59, playing around with the camera and didn’t notice. It’s not a huge thing but just something to manage. Kind of takes away from the Canon just works a bit.... but definitely not more than taking just the right amount of yellow and green out of most Sony files

As I'm not a Canon engineer, I'm simply assuming it either comes down to market segmentation or sensor limitations. I don't have the R5 yet but I do have the A7S II and 5D mark IV and paid for the CLOG upgrade and I've only used it on a few shoots when I was in really challenging light and needed just a little something more to preserve some detail in the highlights while also having more detail in the shadows and midtones.

In most of my paid shooting work I ensure that I have a lighting environment where I don't need to use the Log profiles to get a sellable image but I'd never buy a professional cinema camera that didn't have either Log or RAW. Has to be one or the other, ideally both. The C300 Mark II had both but didn't have full frame 4K, which is why I bought the A7S2 as a back-up for sexy product shots and extreme low-light.

The problem with the A7S2 was the data rate. I really always film with it in a WYSIWYG capacity because the maximum bitrate is 100mbs which means that is the total amount of image information I have to push around in post and it starts to break up when I start pushing too hard whether I filmed in Slog/2/3. The C300II has the CLog/2/3 plus various gamma profiles which allow me to push it harder, but in extreme low light the artifacting and noise did not produce a sellable image, but the A7S2 would and the dynamic range really wasn't an issue as I exposed for the key subject and then let the blacks fall off but with considerably less noise than the C300II.

I'm hoping that one of the new RF Cinema Cameras is full frame (even if pricier), or failing that, that it has the C300III DGCO sensor in it. IBIS is nice but not a must, I'd rather have 4K 120 if I had to pick between the two.

 

[Darecinema]

Well, there’s mine for sale on eBay now ! 300 euros below the retail price, in perfect condition.
It’s a bargain if you’re in Europe

My recommendation: sell it 300 Euros ABOVE list price. If I could find a new R5 on the US Ebay site that was only $300 above retail I'd buy it. Right now they are selling for $1,000 or more above retail on craigslist and ebay and I'd rather save that money for the C70 or whatever it will be.

Could you please post a photo showing the DR issue you had with the R5 sensor? I'm not sure which sensor they are going to put in the C70, but I imagine it will be the R6 or the R5 sensor (as much as I wish it will be the C300III) I've looked at videoclips from the R5 on-line and they look pretty good. I've heard plenty about the overheating, but after years of working around that on my A7SII that doesn't really concern me, but I haven't seen photos from the R5 pointing out a sensor or DR issue. So if that's an actual thing, I'd like to see it.

 

[Twinix]

Cant wait until we get new rumors and a new thread to discuss the Cinema camera(s).

 

[Rocksthaman]

Cant wait until we get new rumors and a new thread to discuss the Cinema camera(s).

Lol right, the weekend seemed to drag on a little more than expected for CR

 

[Twinix]

Lol right, the weekend seemed to drag on a little more than expected for CR

Yea but its always worth it and he is the one who gets it out to us. He really does do an amazing job!

What I am excited for is that this is the C70, and we are going to see a c50 or something like that.

 

[Deleted member 384473]

Steeven Steeven. Chill on the personal attacks. That's just not healthy. I'd absolutely want to know what I was meeting with someone about before I met with them. Unless we were long-time friends (which we are not). Did I say anything to insult you? No. I just said I don't share your opinion, and if in your opinion that makes me crazy, well, that's just your opinion man. (Insert Big Lebowski GIF here). Do you have something you want to say about the Canon RF Cinema C70? I'm interested to hear it. That is, after all, the thread you are posting on and hence, the discussion you showed up for. Theoretically. Do you think your experience with the R5 is going to be indicative of the performance of a rumored C70? Please explain why.

I'm interested to hear about the Dynamic Range of the R5 and if you think they are going to use the same sensor in this camera, then that might be a concern, but rumour has it that it will be the C300MKIII sensor which has 16+ stops DR DGO sensor which is mind-boggling for a camera at that price.

So what would be awesome is, if you think that the C70 will have the same sensor as the R5, please post a picture showing the problem you found on the DR so I can see that. I'd actually super appreciate it.

Y’all attacked this dude so hard for agreeing with someone else who brought up their disappointment in R5 so they ordered a A7Siii instead lol. Did it cross your mind that they may have multiple cameras across multiple camera brands as well? And that for their job, their camera lineup, and in this particular scenario the A7sIII would be better suited? Perhaps when this C70 is formally announced then it will become the better suited camera... the toxicity involved in the replies dude received straight off the back after his DR comments is not a good look for the forum. Almost every thread involves talk of other newly announced cameras, and why wouldn’t they? A7SIII, although a hybrid, should most definitely be brought up when discussing the C70 imho. It’s competition. How will DR compare. How will super 35 DGO sensor compare to Sony’s FF low light achievements. Is it marginal? How do the included tools compare? I’d like to know and see.

I’m eager for the full specs to come out on the C70 as I’ve been patiently waiting to get a c300III but wanted to see what’s around the corner. 16 stops is more of a marketed number. I would say it’s more like 13 stops usable clean DR - which is plenty for me. The R5 is supposedly similar to R at about 11 stops of clean DR, placing it close to last to competition. Hopefully CR Guy has info for us soon on C70.

 

[Darecinema]

Y’all attacked this dude so hard for agreeing with someone else who brought up their disappointment in R5 so they ordered a A7Siii instead lol. Did it cross your mind that they may have multiple cameras across multiple camera brands as well? And that for their job, their camera lineup, and in this particular scenario the A7sIII would be better suited? Perhaps when this C70 is formally announced then it will become the better suited camera... the toxicity involved in the replies dude received straight off the back after his DR comments is not a good look for the forum. Almost every thread involves talk of other newly announced cameras, and why wouldn’t they? A7SIII, although a hybrid, should most definitely be brought up when discussing the C70 imho. It’s competition. How will DR compare. How will super 35 DGO sensor compare to Sony’s FF low light achievements. Is it marginal? How do the included tools compare? I’d like to know and see.

I’m eager for the full specs to come out on the C70 as I’ve been patiently waiting to get a c300III but wanted to see what’s around the corner. 16 stops is more of a marketed number. I would say it’s more like 13 stops usable clean DR - which is plenty for me. The R5 is supposedly similar to R at about 11 stops of clean DR, placing it close to last to competition. Hopefully CR Guy has info for us soon on C70.

I'm right there with you. I'm within a month of either picking up the C300III or the C500II but am sort of desperately hoping for a RF Cinema camera that checks off my boxes so I can justifiably add more glass which I can profit from. For me the A7S series only works as a back up camera not as my principal bread winner. The ergonomics and time limits make it unsuitable for my long-form interviews and I don't want to have to add an Atomos for my routine shooting. At some point I may add an A7S3 to my bag, but right now everything that I profit from is contained in the A7S2 (Full Frame 4K 24p + Low Light Extreme). I just can't use a small DSLR form factor Sony or Canon for my daily routine. To much stuff to add on to make it "just work".

PS Wasnt' trying to attack Steeven Steeven, just steer the conversation to a constructive place.

 

[SteveC]

He just joined Saturday and he feels sorry for R5 users. His words, not mine. Another is StevenSteven. He just joined in June and is openly dissing the R5 then says in a more recent post he returned his to buy his beloved Sony. He's a liar. He never had the R5. These trolls come on here and try to spit venom then leave never to be heard from again.

At least we can HOPE they leave and will never be heard from again. I could say that, also, about a couple of more long-time users who threw the same "I'm sending my R5 back" tantrum. OK, then, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, fellas.

 

[stevensteven]

Y’all attacked this dude so hard for agreeing with someone else who brought up their disappointment in R5 so they ordered a A7Siii instead lol. Did it cross your mind that they may have multiple cameras across multiple camera brands as well? And that for their job, their camera lineup, and in this particular scenario the A7sIII would be better suited? Perhaps when this C70 is formally announced then it will become the better suited camera... the toxicity involved in the replies dude received straight off the back after his DR comments is not a good look for the forum. Almost every thread involves talk of other newly announced cameras, and why wouldn’t they? A7SIII, although a hybrid, should most definitely be brought up when discussing the C70 imho. It’s competition. How will DR compare. How will super 35 DGO sensor compare to Sony’s FF low light achievements. Is it marginal? How do the included tools compare? I’d like to know and see.

I’m eager for the full specs to come out on the C70 as I’ve been patiently waiting to get a c300III but wanted to see what’s around the corner. 16 stops is more of a marketed number. I would say it’s more like 13 stops usable clean DR - which is plenty for me. The R5 is supposedly similar to R at about 11 stops of clean DR, placing it close to last to competition. Hopefully CR Guy has info for us soon on C70.

Thank you. I appreciate that you took the time to make me believe that I was not crazy, cause I started asking myself if there was something wrong with me. Thank you thank you. I am grateful.

 

[stevensteven]

I'm right there with you. I'm within a month of either picking up the C300III or the C500II but am sort of desperately hoping for a RF Cinema camera that checks off my boxes so I can justifiably add more glass which I can profit from. For me the A7S series only works as a back up camera not as my principal bread winner. The ergonomics and time limits make it unsuitable for my long-form interviews and I don't want to have to add an Atomos for my routine shooting. At some point I may add an A7S3 to my bag, but right now everything that I profit from is contained in the A7S2 (Full Frame 4K 24p + Low Light Extreme). I just can't use a small DSLR form factor Sony or Canon for my daily routine. To much stuff to add on to make it "just work".

PS Wasnt' trying to attack Steeven Steeven, just steer the conversation to a constructive place.

I still think that I was being constructive. My a7siii comments/questions were in comparison to the rumoured c70. And at least I was not whining about the overheating, but about others, real issues of the camera. Isn't that refreshing ? No pun intended.

Anyway, let''s leave it at that before this conversation overheats...

 

[HarryFilm]

How to FIX ANY OVERHEATING CAMERA!

a) Wrap camera in cheap icebox cooled gel packs bought at local Dollar Store!

b) Put camera in cage and attach fan on cage body (not on the camera body!)
The fans can be quite low-RPM USB-power CPU-style cooling fan to minimize noise.

c) Remove battery to blow COOL areas into exposed areas by powering camera from laptop-style external power packs (via 5 volt to 18 volt connectors depending upon camera) which I attach underneath the camera on the cage. I have also REMOVED the battery doors completely to blow fan air into the battery compartment to cool the camera faster which HAS worked on many cameras I've used.

d) I've even used a LIQUID COOLING setup taken from a GPU graphics card and drilled some holes in the block to allow me to put the liquid cooling block in-between the base-plate on the bottom of the camera and the tripod. The base-plate of many cameras TENDS to be part of the magnesium and/or aluminum interior body of the camera so you can then create a high-difference thermal conduction path which can cool the camera VERY QUICKLY !!! I've done that on the Canon 1Dx2's and 1Dc's for Astrophotography so I get less noise on the sensor!

e) I've also taken apart a few company 7D2's and drilled holes in the bottom of the camera interior body to also cool a sensor faster for night photos (the head honchos won't let me drill into the 1Dx2/s1Dcs --- Just the 7D's and 5Dmk2's!) via direct liquid cooling attachment to the internal body itself out to an external GPU cooling block. Kinda voids any warranty BUT it does work!

f) If you're open to it, you can also put the ENTIRE camera minus lens into the refrigerator BEFORE you shoot to give you more runtime. You get about 10 more minutes on the R5 when you do that! But be aware of condensation issues (fridge air needs around three degrees Celcius and no lower and humidity should be SAME as outside air!)

g) For the kicker, I've also COOLED the outside air immediately surrounding me and the camera using a portable BUT VERY QUIET passive water chiller. It can cool the immediate air down to around 2 to 4 degrees Celcius! Again, mostly done for astro-photography! Haven't tried that with the R5 yet, but I may do that as an experiment soon!

h) Move to Edmonton or Calgary, Canada in Winter and shoot photos and video at -35 C outside!

Hope that helps!

V

 

[Tony Bennett]

At least we can HOPE they leave and will never be heard from again. I could say that, also, about a couple of more long-time users who threw the same "I'm sending my R5 back" tantrum. OK, then, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, fellas.

It's not so much that I want them to leave, I'd prefer they just contribute to the topic at hand. Instead they come here and find a way to incorporate their love of Sony/incompetence of Canon into a thread that isn't about that at all. Instead they show that they have a full complement of Canon glass and that makes it ok for them to bash Canon. Weird. What they should be doing is going over to Sony forums and learning all they can about Sony lenses/codecs/color, etc. etc.

I find these types to be the ones that want something for nothing. What I mean by that is they want RED/ARRI specs in a sub $2K MILC body with a full bevy of lenses and peripherals at Chinese knockoff prices. All you have to do is read other forums like DPReview or Sony Rumors and you'll find them all over. There are so many that think the A7SIII is overpriced and cannot believe it doesn't have at least 30 megapixels. If you want RED/ARRI performance then buy one of those cameras.

These are the same people that get upset that Honda doesn't offer Ferrari/Lamborghini/Bugatti performance for the price of a Civic.

 

[cornieleous]

How to FIX ANY OVERHEATING CAMERA!

a) Wrap camera in cheap icebox cooled gel packs bought at local Dollar Store!

b) Put camera in cage and attach fan on cage body (not on the camera body!)
The fans can be quite low-RPM USB-power CPU-style cooling fan to minimize noise.

c) Remove battery to blow COOL areas into exposed areas by powering camera from laptop-style external power packs (via 5 volt to 18 volt connectors depending upon camera) which I attach underneath the camera on the cage. I have also REMOVED the battery doors completely to blow fan air into the battery compartment to cool the camera faster which HAS worked on many cameras I've used.

d) I've even used a LIQUID COOLING setup taken from a GPU graphics card and drilled some holes in the block to allow me to put the liquid cooling block in-between the base-plate on the bottom of the camera and the tripod. The base-plate of many cameras TENDS to be part of the magnesium and/or aluminum interior body of the camera so you can then create a high-difference thermal conduction path which can cool the camera VERY QUICKLY !!! I've done that on the Canon 1Dx2's and 1Dc's for Astrophotography so I get less noise on the sensor!

e) I've also taken apart a few company 7D2's and drilled holes in the bottom of the camera interior body to also cool a sensor faster for night photos (the head honchos won't let me drill into the 1Dx2/s1Dcs --- Just the 7D's and 5Dmk2's!) via direct liquid cooling attachment to the internal body itself out to an external GPU cooling block. Kinda voids any warranty BUT it does work!

f) If you're open to it, you can also put the ENTIRE camera minus lens into the refrigerator BEFORE you shoot to give you more runtime. You get about 10 more minutes on the R5 when you do that! But be aware of condensation issues (fridge air needs around three degrees Celcius and no lower and humidity should be SAME as outside air!)

g) For the kicker, I've also COOLED the outside air immediately surrounding me and the camera using a portable BUT VERY QUIET passive water chiller. It can cool the immediate air down to around 2 to 4 degrees Celcius! Again, mostly done for astro-photography! Haven't tried that with the R5 yet, but I may do that as an experiment soon!

h) Move to Edmonton or Calgary, Canada in Winter and shoot photos and video at -35 C outside!

Hope that helps!

V

Just.... no. Or buy the right equipment for the job. This thread is about cinema cameras. Please, enough with the overheating garbage and these armchair solutions.

 

[Ozarker]

How to FIX ANY OVERHEATING CAMERA!

a) Wrap camera in cheap icebox cooled gel packs bought at local Dollar Store!

b) Put camera in cage and attach fan on cage body (not on the camera body!)
The fans can be quite low-RPM USB-power CPU-style cooling fan to minimize noise.

c) Remove battery to blow COOL areas into exposed areas by powering camera from laptop-style external power packs (via 5 volt to 18 volt connectors depending upon camera) which I attach underneath the camera on the cage. I have also REMOVED the battery doors completely to blow fan air into the battery compartment to cool the camera faster which HAS worked on many cameras I've used.

d) I've even used a LIQUID COOLING setup taken from a GPU graphics card and drilled some holes in the block to allow me to put the liquid cooling block in-between the base-plate on the bottom of the camera and the tripod. The base-plate of many cameras TENDS to be part of the magnesium and/or aluminum interior body of the camera so you can then create a high-difference thermal conduction path which can cool the camera VERY QUICKLY !!! I've done that on the Canon 1Dx2's and 1Dc's for Astrophotography so I get less noise on the sensor!

e) I've also taken apart a few company 7D2's and drilled holes in the bottom of the camera interior body to also cool a sensor faster for night photos (the head honchos won't let me drill into the 1Dx2/s1Dcs --- Just the 7D's and 5Dmk2's!) via direct liquid cooling attachment to the internal body itself out to an external GPU cooling block. Kinda voids any warranty BUT it does work!

f) If you're open to it, you can also put the ENTIRE camera minus lens into the refrigerator BEFORE you shoot to give you more runtime. You get about 10 more minutes on the R5 when you do that! But be aware of condensation issues (fridge air needs around three degrees Celcius and no lower and humidity should be SAME as outside air!)

g) For the kicker, I've also COOLED the outside air immediately surrounding me and the camera using a portable BUT VERY QUIET passive water chiller. It can cool the immediate air down to around 2 to 4 degrees Celcius! Again, mostly done for astro-photography! Haven't tried that with the R5 yet, but I may do that as an experiment soon!

h) Move to Edmonton or Calgary, Canada in Winter and shoot photos and video at -35 C outside!

Hope that helps!

V

Well, just don't forget to drain the condensate inside the camera when cooling in those ice packs.

 

[Darecinema]

I still think that I was being constructive. My a7siii comments/questions were in comparison to the rumoured c70. And at least I was not whining about the overheating, but about others, real issues of the camera. Isn't that refreshing ? No pun intended.

Anyway, let''s leave it at that before this conversation overheats...

Thanks for a calmer answer. For me what would make this conversation end in a beneficial/constructive manner would be if you would be willing to actually post a photo (or a video) you took with the R5 that demonstrates "the real issues of the camera" that made you return it. That way I, and others here could see if these problems are actual problems for us, or are problems for your specific use-case scenario. It would also help us see if these will be problems that will follow into the C70 if it ends up having the same sensor as the R5.

So: Do you have a photo or video you took with the R5 that you could share with the community that could demonstrate the issues you have a problem with? I'm not saying you have to share it, but it sure would add credibility to your argument. And yes, I did actually take the time to check your Instagram and I think you have some beautiful work, so I really WOULD be interested in seeing an example of why the R5 didn't work for your needs.

Otherwise, I have no context to your argument that I can see with my own eyes and then either agree or disagree with you based on my opinion if it is an issue for my use.

So help us out here: Please post a photo or a video so we can see it for ourselves and see what the real issue was.

 

[privatebydesign]

Well, there’s mine for sale on eBay now ! 300 euros below the retail price, in perfect condition.
It’s a bargain if you’re in Europe

Are you returning it (as you stated) or selling it on eBay (as you now state)?

 

[SteveC]

It's not so much that I want them to leave, I'd prefer they just contribute to the topic at hand. Instead they come here and find a way to incorporate their love of Sony/incompetence of Canon into a thread that isn't about that at all. Instead they show that they have a full complement of Canon glass and that makes it ok for them to bash Canon. Weird. What they should be doing is going over to Sony forums and learning all they can about Sony lenses/codecs/color, etc. etc.

But we know they won't change that behavior. They'll barge into any thread on any topic AND CHANGE the topic. One will start, and others will feel justified in responding in the same vein.

Since they've demonstrated that they won't be housebroken...they should leave.

 

[Tony Bennett]

But we know they won't change that behavior. They'll barge into any thread on any topic AND CHANGE the topic. One will start, and others will feel justified in responding in the same vein.

Since they've demonstrated that they won't be housebroken...they should leave.

And now, instead of returning the camera as stated, they are selling it on EBAY. Hmmm.

 

[SteveC]

And now, instead of returning the camera as stated, they are selling it on EBAY. Hmmm.

Yeah, well they may be unhousetrained, but they're going to go ahead and make a thousand bucks flipping the camera they call useless.

 

[Tony Bennett]

Yeah, well they may be unhousetrained, but they're going to go ahead and make a thousand bucks flipping the camera they call useless.

And here's something else I find funny/weird/whatever about these supposed "artists" claiming they never seem to be able to find the right tool to do their jobs. They will list all these specs that already exist in a higher priced camera (ARRI/RED/whatever) but NEVER purchase said camera. I just don't understand.