Hint about what to expect from Canon's step into full frame mirrorless?

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
Don Haines said:
I want a really tiny very compact mirrorless camera with a full frame sensor. It has to be the size of M series camera a Sony A7 1st gen or even as small as a Sony RX-1R II but needs to have the controls of a 5D4 a Canon M6/M5 class camera. It needs a tiny battery sized like e.g. a Fujifilm NP-W126S https://www.apotelyt.com/camera-power/fujifilm-x-t100-battery that gives almost twice the charge shot reach of the LP-6 whimpy old Canon LP-E12 ..... I want tiny F1.2 f/2.0 to f/2.8 FF prime lenses and compact f/4 zooms and I want to be able to use an adaptor so that my crop kit Canon EF / L lenses will work on a FF image circle WITHOUT vignetting. I want it to come with an fixed articulated screen and it should be the lowest priced like a middle class mirrorslapapper camera in the Canon lineup e.g. 6D2, despite it's ability to shoot 8K video and burst mode of 120FPS with 6fps and no video recoding at all.

Any failure to do this in the next 15 minutes 6 full years after the competition did means that Canon is has lost a lot of possible sales, has allowed additional competitors to take a portion of the market [Sony, Fuji] and may well be ******* if they continue much longer on this path. and that I shall go off in a huff when I've had enough of waiting and buy a Sony camera when they offer one that meets none most of the stated requirements ...

fixed

;D
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
6,551
4,320
68
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
fullstop said:
I want a very compact mirrorless camera with a full frame sensor. It has to be the size of a Sony A7 1st gen or even as small as a Sony RX-1R II, but needs to have the controls of a Canon M6/M5 class camera. It needs a battery sized like e.g. a Fujifilm NP-W126S (https://www.apotelyt.com/camera-power/fujifilm-x-t100-battery) that gives almost twice the shot reach of the whimpy old Canon LP-E12... I want tiny f/2.0 to f/2.8 FF prime lenses and compact f/4 zooms and I want to be able to use an adaptor so that myCanon EF / L lenses will work on a FF image circle WITHOUT vignetting. I want it to come with an articulated screen and it should be priced like a middle class mirrorslapapper camera in the Canon lineup e.g. 6D2, with 6fps and no video recoding at all.

Failure to do this 6 full years after the competition did means that Canon has lost a lot of possible sales, has allowed additional competitors to take a portion of the market [Sony, Fuji] and may well be ******* if they continue much longer on this path and that I shall go off when I've had enough of waiting and buy a Sony camera when they offer one that meets most of the stated requirements ...

Fair enough, but I'm not sure how realistic some of these requests are. Obviously, any mirrorless will have video and most likely it will have 4K. Prime lenses seem to be a fading market. Maybe you will get a 40mm-ish f2.8 pancake, eventually, but I wouldn't count on much else.

I'd be surprised if it's priced like a 6D, but maybe somewhere between the 6D and 5D could happen.

Lens mount remains an open question as about half or more of the folks on this forum who have an interest in mirrorless seem pretty committed to a native EF-mount. F4 zooms sound likely, although if you are correct and size matters as much as you seem to think, we could see more variable aperture, STM lenses.
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
@unfocused:

actually, as long as Canon makes me my extreme niche FF mirrorless body (with new slim mount of course) i shall be happy to use both my EF 40/2.8 STM and EF 50/1.8 STM with a native Canon adapter on it for a start until they come up with new mount native lenses. :)

and if it has video recording, also fine with me. I just don't care about it and don't need or use it and I don't want to pay for it or have video stuff get into my way ... eg "marked in red record video buttons in stupid locations where i inadvertently activate them :)
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,946
Canada
fullstop said:
Don Haines said:
I want a really tiny very compact mirrorless camera with a full frame sensor. It has to be the size of M series camera a Sony A7 1st gen or even as small as a Sony RX-1R II but needs to have the controls of a 5D4 a Canon M6/M5 class camera. It needs a tiny battery sized like e.g. a Fujifilm NP-W126S https://www.apotelyt.com/camera-power/fujifilm-x-t100-battery that gives almost twice the charge shot reach of the LP-6 whimpy old Canon LP-E12 ..... I want tiny F1.2 f/2.0 to f/2.8 FF prime lenses and compact f/4 zooms and I want to be able to use an adaptor so that my crop kit Canon EF / L lenses will work on a FF image circle WITHOUT vignetting. I want it to come with an fixed articulated screen and it should be the lowest priced like a middle class mirrorslapapper camera in the Canon lineup e.g. 6D2, despite it's ability to shoot 8K video and burst mode of 120FPS with 6fps and no video recoding at all.

Any failure to do this in the next 15 minutes 6 full years after the competition did means that Canon is has lost a lot of possible sales, has allowed additional competitors to take a portion of the market [Sony, Fuji] and may well be ******* if they continue much longer on this path. and that I shall go off in a huff when I've had enough of waiting and buy a Sony camera when they offer one that meets none most of the stated requirements ...

fixed

;D


Don't get me wrong, I think that mirrorless is the future, but I have not seen one from anybody that meets my needs. Personally, I would like to see one the size of a 6D2 with the same ergonomics and articulated touchscreen, a FAST! burst mode, an EVF that would work from birds-in-flight to astrophotography, and an AF system at least as good as a 7D2. Until then, I shoot with mirrorslappers…..


For those who say that the Sony system meets their needs, GO BUY IT! You want to put pressure on Canon to make the equivalent? Then go do it with your wallet. If they see such a significant number of sales go away, then they will react.
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
Don Haines said:
For those who say that the Sony system meets their needs, GO BUY IT! You want to put pressure on Canon to make the equivalent? Then go do it with your wallet. If they see such a significant number of sales go away, then they will react.

actually I am re-considering whether to buy the Fuji X-T100 rather than M50. Only thing that gives me pause are the EF-M lenses i have. Don't want to buy crop lenses a third time over ... first EF-S then EF-M and then again? No way! Especially not when crop lenses are fine quality but as expensive as the Fujis are.

PS: My 4x LP-E12 batteries are not "locking me into Canon EOS M system". ;D ;D ;D
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,946
Canada
fullstop said:
Don Haines said:
For those who say that the Sony system meets their needs, GO BUY IT! You want to put pressure on Canon to make the equivalent? Then go do it with your wallet. If they see such a significant number of sales go away, then they will react.

actually I am re-considering whether to buy the Fuji X-T100 rather than M50. Only thing that gives me pause are the EF-M lenses i have. Don't want to buy crop lenses a third time over ... first EF-S then EF-M and then again? No way! Especially not when crop lenses are fine quality but as expensive as the Fujis are.

PS: My 4x LP-E12 batteries are not "locking me into Canon EOS M system". ;D ;D ;D

I'm not in the market for a crop mirrorless system, but if I was, I wold be looking hard at Olympus..... There is a reasonable selection of lenses (and some fast primes), the cameras are capable, and the size is hard to beat... The only drawback is the menu system, but after a while you get used to it and it gets better.….
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
dak723 said:
fullstop said:
simple. Digital cameras don#t need mirrors in them. For film SLRs it was the only way to "see and meter thru the lens". Outdated early 20th century reflex technology has only managed to drag itself into the 21st century because the market dominating CaNikon duopoly found they can really easy money by selling iteration after iteration of marginally improved, same old stuff and cream off people with that, until they eventually might move to a more "digitally adequate" future-proof, mirrorless design concept.

But then, along comes Sony and starts turning the tables on them. That was "totally uncalled for". LOL.

I want a good, compact FF mirrorless system. Soon now. That's all I care about. It does not matter to me whether millions of others want to cling onto their DSLRs for dear life or some people prefer to shoot film. There is more than enough choice for all of those guys. DSLRs and big lenses GALORE!

But Canon and Nikon have been refusing to take my money and that of many others [no, I am NOT alone!] who have been waiting for years for a decent FF mirrorless system to replace or complement (!) their big, chunky, mirrorslappers that today only offer advantages for a small minority of use cases that for some reason or other seem to be over-represented on this forum. Only a very small portion of all images are captured by sports photographers and even less by wildlife and BIF photographers. Nothing wrong with those fields of photograohy, quite to the opposite, and nothing wrong with people wanting to use DSLRs if they prefer them. But, the large group of people whho want to go without a mirror should also have a choice. And we are being DENIED just that.

Yes, I am a tad bit angry. OMG! But me [and many other "average amateur/enthusiast" people] are just totally fed up how Canon and Nikon have been BLOCKING the development of mirrorless cameras and refused to offer us decent mirrorless cameras for so long. Almost all Sony and Fujifilm mirrorless camera could have been a sale for Canon or Nikon. Sony did not have a large user group. Fuji had none for digital cameras. Vast majority of Sony/Fujifilm digital cameras are bought by (former) Canon or Nikon customers. Often as a supplementary system, but growing numbers have started to go fully mirrorless and turn their backs on CaNikon.

Demand is there. Lots of it. Supply side on Canon and Nikon side is what sucks!

I truly hope, Sony will take market leadership from Canon because of this and Nikon will hopefully go under as a whole. Conservative money milkers have not deserved any better.

END RANT.

Ah, finally, after pages and pages of baloney, we have come to the truth.

It's not about batteries at all. It's not about Canon nerfing or crippling its cameras. It's come down to the usual - I want a small compact FF mirrorless from Canon and they don't make one. :( :( :(

Of course, Canon and Nikon can not BLOCK anyone. How absurd is that? If you want a really good mirrorless camera, many are available. For non-FF, Canon makes an excellent M5. For cameras with more bells and whistles - and some fantastic lenses - you can go M4/3rds. And, needless to say, Sony is now in its 3rd generation of FF mirrorless - not really possible if Canon has BLOCKED mirrorless tech. So mirrorless technology is readily available - not BLOCKED at all. But all of the above solutions are not acceptable if the reason for someone's unhappiness is that they want a small compact FF mirrorless from Canon and they don't make one. :( :( :(

The funny thing is, both of the alleged co-conspirators are coming out with FF mirrorless with the next year. So why the rage, why the rant, why the bitterness?

I guess the answer is some folks want a small compact FF mirrorless from Canon NOW...

Really remarkable how someone can use their camera design fantasies to sucker people into 20 pages of mindgames with no end in sight
 

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,353
557
fullstop said:
jolyonralph said:
I have a great solution for those of you who feel that the battery life on a mirrorless camera is an issue.
Buy some clothes with pockets.
Then, you see, there's a remarkable trick you can use. It turns out, and it seems many of you are unaware of this, that you can buy ADDITIONAL batteries, and keep them in your pockets and swap them out when the battery is getting low (here's another professional tip, swap the battery when it's low at a time when it's convenient for you, don't wait until it's completely dead and then complain you miss a shot.) ;)
So please, no more comparisons with electric car range. That makes no sense at all (you can't carry spare batteries for an electric car.)

Really interesting. This is the only forum i post in, where a half dozen forum members go into a 100+ posting frenzy, when somebody dares to mention that Canon unfortunately marketing nerfed a great little new camera [EOS M50] that is fully competitive in all important dimensions [sensor, IQ, AF system, user interface, touchscreen, body size, weight, price] except one: battery charge! - by using an old, weak battery pack [LP-E12] rather than a newer, better, readily available power pack [LP-E17] that would yield at least 18% more shots per charge.

There is no argument spared in attempts trying to prove, that a better "shot yield per battery charge" is either
* pointless, because "it is so low anyways, so why even care" and "one can carry any number of spare batteries in their pockets" and
* or irrelevant, because DSLRs have a much superior shot yield per battery charge. Yes, they better, given the size and charge of the much bigger batteries in them and given the size of DSLRs bodies vs. an EOS M50 :)
* or "even when 18%+ more shots per charge would have be nice", it is definitely not "marketing nerfing" on Canon's part, but "in the best interest of customers", since some fraction of purchasers may already have some of the old, weak batteries lying around at home as spares
* and - when all of these arguments obviously fail, then come the personal attacks and some forum bullying and at the peak of discussion inevitably the oh so pseudo-logic line is pulled out: "while it may be important to you, that does not mean it is important to anybody else" and "it really is just you complaining", "you little whiny kid", "go home and stfu" - and don't ever dare again to criticize infallible Canon. Canon "always have their reasons to do whatever they do" ;D and it is not up to us mere mortals and much less so to you, little whiner, to question Canon's reasons and motives. ;D

That's when I cannot help but feel like being in a forum populated mostly by Canon marketing spin doctors and/or shills. I have been told, that none of the honorable forum members here are. Of course I shall believe that. But I cannot help to note, that a few people here certainly act like it.

PS: @Joly - just to make sure: I don't mean you.

I think it ironic that you complain about ad hominem, yet dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as being a Canon marketing shill.
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
BillB said:
dak723 said:
fullstop said:
simple. Digital cameras don#t need mirrors in them. For film SLRs it was the only way to "see and meter thru the lens". Outdated early 20th century reflex technology has only managed to drag itself into the 21st century because the market dominating CaNikon duopoly found they can really easy money by selling iteration after iteration of marginally improved, same old stuff and cream off people with that, until they eventually might move to a more "digitally adequate" future-proof, mirrorless design concept.

But then, along comes Sony and starts turning the tables on them. That was "totally uncalled for". LOL.

I want a good, compact FF mirrorless system. Soon now. That's all I care about. It does not matter to me whether millions of others want to cling onto their DSLRs for dear life or some people prefer to shoot film. There is more than enough choice for all of those guys. DSLRs and big lenses GALORE!

But Canon and Nikon have been refusing to take my money and that of many others [no, I am NOT alone!] who have been waiting for years for a decent FF mirrorless system to replace or complement (!) their big, chunky, mirrorslappers that today only offer advantages for a small minority of use cases that for some reason or other seem to be over-represented on this forum. Only a very small portion of all images are captured by sports photographers and even less by wildlife and BIF photographers. Nothing wrong with those fields of photograohy, quite to the opposite, and nothing wrong with people wanting to use DSLRs if they prefer them. But, the large group of people whho want to go without a mirror should also have a choice. And we are being DENIED just that.

Yes, I am a tad bit angry. OMG! But me [and many other "average amateur/enthusiast" people] are just totally fed up how Canon and Nikon have been BLOCKING the development of mirrorless cameras and refused to offer us decent mirrorless cameras for so long. Almost all Sony and Fujifilm mirrorless camera could have been a sale for Canon or Nikon. Sony did not have a large user group. Fuji had none for digital cameras. Vast majority of Sony/Fujifilm digital cameras are bought by (former) Canon or Nikon customers. Often as a supplementary system, but growing numbers have started to go fully mirrorless and turn their backs on CaNikon.

Demand is there. Lots of it. Supply side on Canon and Nikon side is what sucks!

I truly hope, Sony will take market leadership from Canon because of this and Nikon will hopefully go under as a whole. Conservative money milkers have not deserved any better.

END RANT.

Ah, finally, after pages and pages of baloney, we have come to the truth.

It's not about batteries at all. It's not about Canon nerfing or crippling its cameras. It's come down to the usual - I want a small compact FF mirrorless from Canon and they don't make one. :( :( :(

Of course, Canon and Nikon can not BLOCK anyone. How absurd is that? If you want a really good mirrorless camera, many are available. For non-FF, Canon makes an excellent M5. For cameras with more bells and whistles - and some fantastic lenses - you can go M4/3rds. And, needless to say, Sony is now in its 3rd generation of FF mirrorless - not really possible if Canon has BLOCKED mirrorless tech. So mirrorless technology is readily available - not BLOCKED at all. But all of the above solutions are not acceptable if the reason for someone's unhappiness is that they want a small compact FF mirrorless from Canon and they don't make one. :( :( :(

The funny thing is, both of the alleged co-conspirators are coming out with FF mirrorless with the next year. So why the rage, why the rant, why the bitterness?

I guess the answer is some folks want a small compact FF mirrorless from Canon NOW...

Really remarkable how someone can use their camera design fantasies to sucker people into 20 pages of mindgames with no end in sight

^^ especially when one is not a serious buyer. I’ve read many a post of “I’m thinking about buying something from a vendor who competes with canon,” but they all inevitably fall through (like this Fuji one did in less than a day). Meanwhile despite liking everything about the m50 better than the Fuji aside from the battery - of which one has several spares - holding 15% too little charge, one won’t buy that either.

And when canon releases a full frame mirrorless camera, there will be some other poison pill holding up the transaction. Perhaps the body will be 7mm too tall.
 

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,353
557
fullstop said:
Don Haines said:
For those who say that the Sony system meets their needs, GO BUY IT! You want to put pressure on Canon to make the equivalent? Then go do it with your wallet. If they see such a significant number of sales go away, then they will react.

actually I am re-considering whether to buy the Fuji X-T100 rather than M50. Only thing that gives me pause are the EF-M lenses i have. Don't want to buy crop lenses a third time over ... first EF-S then EF-M and then again? No way! Especially not when crop lenses are fine quality but as expensive as the Fujis are.

PS: My 4x LP-E12 batteries are not "locking me into Canon EOS M system". ;D ;D ;D

No, don't 'consider' it. Do it, because only when you actually buy some else's product will Canon take note. But no. You come onto this forum complaining about things and still buy more Canon gear. Doing what you are doing you are telling Canon 'Hey, things are not perfect in Canon world but you are doing a majority of things better than other people'. You complain about Canon being conservative and unadventurous...but your purchasing pattern purchasing pattern matches them in that respect. It seems you are their perfect customer and they are your perfect supplier.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,946
Canada
Mikehit said:
fullstop said:
Don Haines said:
For those who say that the Sony system meets their needs, GO BUY IT! You want to put pressure on Canon to make the equivalent? Then go do it with your wallet. If they see such a significant number of sales go away, then they will react.

actually I am re-considering whether to buy the Fuji X-T100 rather than M50. Only thing that gives me pause are the EF-M lenses i have. Don't want to buy crop lenses a third time over ... first EF-S then EF-M and then again? No way! Especially not when crop lenses are fine quality but as expensive as the Fujis are.

PS: My 4x LP-E12 batteries are not "locking me into Canon EOS M system". ;D ;D ;D

No, don't 'consider' it. Do it, because only when you actually buy some else's product will Canon take note. But no. You come onto this forum complaining about things and still buy more Canon gear. Doing what you are doing you are telling Canon 'Hey, things are not perfect in Canon world but you are doing a majority of things better than other people'. You complain about Canon being conservative and unadventurous...but your purchasing pattern purchasing pattern matches them in that respect. It seems you are their perfect customer and they are your perfect supplier.

and this is my point! The last two Canon bodies that I bought did not have all the features on them that I wanted, but they had enough, so I bought them. This sent a clear message to Canon that their product was OK.... and remember, their goal is not to produce a product that is perfect for a few, it is to produce a product that is acceptable for many, and that's where large sales numbers come from. If you truly believe that they do not fit your needs, go elsewhere. Vote with your wallet.
 

Durf

Picture Taker - Image Maker
Don Haines said:
Mikehit said:
fullstop said:
Don Haines said:
For those who say that the Sony system meets their needs, GO BUY IT! You want to put pressure on Canon to make the equivalent? Then go do it with your wallet. If they see such a significant number of sales go away, then they will react.

actually I am re-considering whether to buy the Fuji X-T100 rather than M50. Only thing that gives me pause are the EF-M lenses i have. Don't want to buy crop lenses a third time over ... first EF-S then EF-M and then again? No way! Especially not when crop lenses are fine quality but as expensive as the Fujis are.

PS: My 4x LP-E12 batteries are not "locking me into Canon EOS M system". ;D ;D ;D

No, don't 'consider' it. Do it, because only when you actually buy some else's product will Canon take note. But no. You come onto this forum complaining about things and still buy more Canon gear. Doing what you are doing you are telling Canon 'Hey, things are not perfect in Canon world but you are doing a majority of things better than other people'. You complain about Canon being conservative and unadventurous...but your purchasing pattern purchasing pattern matches them in that respect. It seems you are their perfect customer and they are your perfect supplier.

and this is my point! The last two Canon bodies that I bought did not have all the features on them that I wanted, but they had enough, so I bought them. This sent a clear message to Canon that their product was OK.... and remember, their goal is not to produce a product that is perfect for a few, it is to produce a product that is acceptable for many, and that's where large sales numbers come from. If you truly believe that they do not fit your needs, go elsewhere. Vote with your wallet.

same here; My Canon DSLR's lack a few things I wish they didn't lack but they get the job done for what I like to do.

Most importantly when out shooting all day they are comfortable in my hands and a pleasure to shoot with. If I could have a 20 thousand dollar camera to use with every feature available that would be awesome; but if it was a pain in the ass to hold and complicated as hell to use I'd probably get frustrated and throw it in the dumpster and happily return back to my 6D2 or 80D......

The only other camera brand that feels good in my hands is the larger Nikon DSLR bodies, but I chose Canon instead for my main kit brand simply because I liked Canon cameras and lenses a bit better than Nikon's, not because I absolutely thought Canon was far superior in technology.....
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
26,419
5,192
Don Haines said:
Mikehit said:
fullstop said:
Don Haines said:
For those who say that the Sony system meets their needs, GO BUY IT! You want to put pressure on Canon to make the equivalent? Then go do it with your wallet. If they see such a significant number of sales go away, then they will react.

actually I am re-considering whether to buy the Fuji X-T100 rather than M50. Only thing that gives me pause are the EF-M lenses i have. Don't want to buy crop lenses a third time over ... first EF-S then EF-M and then again? No way! Especially not when crop lenses are fine quality but as expensive as the Fujis are.

PS: My 4x LP-E12 batteries are not "locking me into Canon EOS M system". ;D ;D ;D

No, don't 'consider' it. Do it, because only when you actually buy some else's product will Canon take note. But no. You come onto this forum complaining about things and still buy more Canon gear. Doing what you are doing you are telling Canon 'Hey, things are not perfect in Canon world but you are doing a majority of things better than other people'. You complain about Canon being conservative and unadventurous...but your purchasing pattern purchasing pattern matches them in that respect. It seems you are their perfect customer and they are your perfect supplier.

and this is my point! The last two Canon bodies that I bought did not have all the features on them that I wanted, but they had enough, so I bought them. This sent a clear message to Canon that their product was OK.... and remember, their goal is not to produce a product that is perfect for a few, it is to produce a product that is acceptable for many, and that's where large sales numbers come from. If you truly believe that they do not fit your needs, go elsewhere. Vote with your wallet.

He won't. He's waiting for someone to deliver his perfect camera. The new Canon FF MILC may be 99% there…but maybe the battery power will be 5% too low, or they won't launch a native 136mm f/3.8 with it, or shade of matte black it's painted will be slightly too reflective. So he won't buy it, but I guarantee you he'll come here to complain about what a horrible camera it is for failing to meet his expectations of perfection.
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
I'll balk if Canon FF mirrorless only (!) comes as big brick with big native EF pig snout up front, because Canon listened to the "make it chunky and with native EF mount" crowd. ;D

And if the battery pack is anemic, I shall note and criticize it.

Also correct: I won't buy pink, white, "hello Kitty" or "champagne"-color versions of it. ;D
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,946
Canada
fullstop said:
I'll balk if Canon FF mirrorless comes as big brick with big native EF pig snout up front, because Canon listened to the "make it big and with native EF mount" crowd. ;D

Also correct: I won't buy pink, white, "hello Kitty" or "champagne"-color versions of it. ;D
So.... go buy a Sony or an “m”.....
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
No. M is APS-C only. I'll buy an APS-C for my daughter, because she values small size even more than I do. She is currently using my EOS M 1st gen - almost exclusively with the 22/2 pancake.

For myself I want "one single compact FF-sensored camera system". Not 2 systems in parallel - 1 FF, 1 APS-C.

Sony has many things right by now, but not UI and their lenses. At least not for me.
And mFT does not offer significant enough reductions in size/weight/price compared to APS-C - if any. And it comes with an all-around 1 EV photographic disadvantage vs. APS-C and 2 stops vs. FF. Not interested.

What is so hard to understand or accept here?
 

bvukich

EOS RP
CR Pro
fullstop said:
I'll balk if Canon FF mirrorless only (!) comes as big brick with big native EF pig snout up front, because Canon listened to the "make it chunky and with native EF mount" crowd. ;D

And I'll balk if it's a tiny non-ergonomic card deck sized body that doesn't balance well with my lenses.

fullstop said:
And if the battery pack is anemic, I shall note and criticize it.

So, if it's like Sony?

fullstop said:
Also correct: I won't buy pink, white, "hello Kitty" or "champagne"-color versions of it. ;D

Well, perhaps there we agree.
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
bvukich said:
fullstop said:
And if the battery pack is anemic, I shall note and criticize it.
So, if it's like Sony?

well, have not really looked into it yet, but if true, then Sony has best-in-class shot reach per battery charge :)

the A7III also has pretty ridiculous battery life – for a mirrorless camera, at least. Boasting 710 shots on a full charge it beats everything else out there in mirrorlessland, and is stepping into DSLR territory.
https://www.diyphotography.net/new-sony-a7iii-boasts-best-battery-life-mirrorless-camera-ever-700-shots-per-full-charge/

So let's see whether Canon FF MILC manages to get 700 shots per charge from a FF MILC not larger than Sony A7 III. Hint: sticking a whimpy old LP-E12 in, won't cut it. :)
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,946
Canada
Just what exactly is the market segment here?

In general, FF users are after image quality first.... and want the controls and ergonomics that go with that requirement.... when size becomes your major requirement, you are ready to compromise on quality...... but there in lies the problem....lenses! If you do not get the size saving with your lenses, how much of a gain (loss) in size have you really made? If you want small, then you want to go crop and with the lenses specifically designed for a tiny crop system.... like the 4/3 system.... where you get a huge (pun intended) size advantage over FF.....

We do not know which route Canon has taken yet, DSLR sized body and EF lenses, or a new and smaller body with a whole new lineup of lenses where image quality MAY be compromised to get some size advantages, but what we do know is that they will have done a lot of market research in the real world, and will ignore this forum, where it is the voices of the fanatics that stand out, because WE DO NOT REPRESENT THE TYPICAL USER!

So, in the meantime go big or go crop. No matter how much a few fanatics would like it to be so, FF camera systems will never be as small as crop systems because you need more glass to cover a larger sensor. PERIOD!


Note: both systems pictured below have the same focal range.....
 

Attachments

  • 6DBD4915-CFBB-4382-AB8B-376818585797.jpeg
    6DBD4915-CFBB-4382-AB8B-376818585797.jpeg
    2.5 MB · Views: 87

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
Don Haines said:
Just what exactly is the market segment here?

In general, FF users are after image quality first.... and want the controls and ergonomics that go with that requirement.... when size becomes your major requirement, you are ready to compromise on quality...... but there in lies the problem....lenses! If you do not get the size saving with your lenses, how much of a gain (loss) in size have you really made? If you want small, then you want to go crop and with the lenses specifically designed for a tiny crop system.... like the 4/3 system.... where you get a huge (pun intended) size advantage over FF.....

We do not know which route Canon has taken yet, DSLR sized body and EF lenses, or a new and smaller body with a whole new lineup of lenses where image quality MAY be compromised to get some size advantages, but what we do know is that they will have done a lot of market research in the real world, and will ignore this forum, where it is the voices of the fanatics that stand out, because WE DO NOT REPRESENT THE TYPICAL USER!

So, in the meantime go big or go crop. No matter how much a few fanatics would like it to be so, FF camera systems will never be as small as crop systems because you need more glass to cover a larger sensor. PERIOD!


Note: both systems pictured below have the same focal range.....

Or you build smaller lenses with 135-format coverage by reducing max aperture. You then eat the EV loss bemoaned above, but at least you can choose to put a big lens on, whereas unless modularity becomes a thing you’re stuck with the camera sensor.

That being said, I agree: use the right tool for what you want to accomplish. If that means selecting a different body now and again, so be it.