Isaacheus said:
Ian_of_glos said:
fullstop said:
sure, DSLRs can be crippled into a sub-par version of a mirrorless camera using them in live view. But then, without use of the glorified OVF - why bother with all the mirrorslapping to start with?
Always makes me chuckle to see how some people cling on "for dear life" to that dying mirrorslapping stuff. And how that group of people seems to be pretty much identical with the Canapologists. ;D
Do you have to be quite so arrogant?
When I bought my 5D mk4 I had ample opportunity to try the best mirrorless cameras that were available at the time. The Fuji XT1 was interesting and the range of lenses was impressive, but it has a crop sensor and having just gone through the pain of upgrading from a 7D to a 5D there is no way I am going back to APSC. Also the body was fragile and there is no way that it would survive a 2 hour sports shoot in continuous and persistent rain.
The Olympus OMD EM1 handled quite well - a bit like a mid range Canon such as a 70D. There was also a good choice of lenses. The problem is that the sensor is tiny, even smaller than the Fuji so for me that rules it out.
That just leaves us with the Sony A7ii. The camera I tried crashed 4 times during the demo and the only way the sales assistant could restart it was to remove the battery and try again. I have never had this type of problem with any of my Canon DSLRs.
During the few moments that the Sony A7ii was working I found the quality lenses such as the 24-70 F2.8 Gmaster were so big and heavy that the camera was unbalanced and difficult to hold. I desperately wanted a heavy camera body to balance the heavy Gmaster lens. Also the Gmaster lenses are a lot more expensive than the equivalent Canon L lenses - and having already invested in the Canon lenses so why would I pay more money for a huge, heavy lens that is no better than my Canon? After a while the sales assistant agreed that the best option for me is a 5D mk4 so I bought one and I am really delighted with it.
Why can't you accept that some people have different priorities from yours and it is possible that they think very carefully before buying a camera? The idea that we are "clinging on for dear life" to an outdated system is quite ridiculous. I like my 5D mk4 and I really enjoy using it. I have tried the alternatives and I don't like them. Please respect my ability to choose a camera that suits my needs.
It'll be interesting to see how you decide for your next camera; I'd guess Canon would have a FF mirrorless by the next upgrade you do, so it'll be a true dslr vs mirrorless choice if you go canon again (rather the current comparisons which often seem more like sony vs canon vs everything else etc,the brand wars).
For me, Canon vs Sony (or other) is not a factor in mirrorless vs DSLR. The fact is, most of my photography is still done on an 80D; I am perfectly happy with APSC for almost everything, and I could just as easily own a M5 (or a6500), but my favorite camera remains the 80D.
When Canon puts out a mirrorless full frame, I'll certainly consider it, but it will be held to the same litmus test as the Sony -- does it make my life easier doing the kinds of photography I like, without forcing me to make another compromise that I might like less.
In the context of modern sensors, image-related issues are largely all an even playing field for me; I don't think anyone could tell if I took a photo with a Sony or a Canon or a DSLR or a mirrorless. It all just comes down to which one feels better in the hand, and gets less in the way when I want to do the things I want to do.
The things that the Sony didn't quite get right that I hope Canon does better are:
- Better and more consistent autofocus that just works more like a DSLR's dedicated AF sensor (ie always just works and I don't have to pick and choose between different compromises)
- Better low light autofocus, and also AF that is compatible with red-pattern AF flash illuminators
- Ergonomics (feel in the hand) that I enjoy, especially with telephoto lenses, without having to add a vertical grip. I'd really like to see a mirrorless about the size of an 80D at the smallest; a 6D2 would be even better.
- Good support for lenses that aren't focus-by-wire
The rest of the stuff, I think I can live with. If Canon can achieve the list above for me, I'd then ask, what more does a mirrorless offer me, over the DSLR? And is that advantage worth the loss of the optical viewfinder? I would probably trade battery life for manual focus magnification, but I don't know if I'd be willing to throw anything else into the mix, because that's a pretty big concession to me (but for a feature I really love).
I am loyal to Canon in the sense that I won't go and switch systems just because for 2, 3, 4, 5 or whatever years, some other system comes out with new stuff. I am not loyal to Canon in the sense that if another system has
exactly what I want, I'm more than happy to spend some money there to have it now (it doesn't mean I have to get rid of my Canon stuff, though). The problem is, that just hasn't happened for me yet.