How does Canon respond to the D800?

[altenae]

it would seem to favor the D700: press button="good picture", vs. press button, download to <software>, make x+y+z manipulations="good picture".

Unbelievable this kind of comments.
And this is a photography forum....sure...

 

[thepancakeman]

it would seem to favor the D700: press button="good picture", vs. press button, download to <software>, make x+y+z manipulations="good picture".

Unbelievable this kind of comments.
And this is a photography forum....sure...

Not quite sure what you're saying. I'm talking about comparing outputs, not "set up lighting, adjust exposure compensation, set focus, set aperature, set WB, get subjects to smile...etc, etc." Yes there is a lot that goes into taking a decent picture, but it didn't seem too much of a stretch that if you're comparing 2 bodies that the same effort in setting up and actually taking the photo would be applied to both.

Maybe you would prefer that I name specific software packages and highlight all of the thousands of PP tweaks that can be made? And how exactly is your comment contributing to the conversation??

 

[briansquibb]

And Canon has a fast, reliable, dual CF-slot, full frame camera, it is the 1D X. Get that, save up, get a used one 1Ds?

I bought a 1Ds3 as a tactical purchase until the 1DX is a reasonable price. A cracking buy - better IQ than a 5D2, better AF than a 7D, low noise up to its max of iso3200.

It is my walkabout camera now - very good it has proved to be!!

Here is a candid of a young lady I met in a cafe,

natural light, iso3200, f/5.6, 1/60, 70-200II@168

 

[KeithR]

But perhaps I'm missing part of what you mean?

I'm saying that - with just a little bit of care and effort on a user's part - it's possible to make images that match the D700 in terms of IQ: perhaps with a D700 it might be easier (although as I suggest, that depends on things like what you're shooting and whether you're focal-length limited), but it's still easy with the 7D.

So spend some time researching which converters get the best out of 7D files (plenty of info about that on the net) and use them - hardly an onerous task.

Then, post process the files intelligently. In terms of the steps and techniques I use, I'm using exactly the same PP workflow I used to use on my 40D: I don't "capture" sharpen on conversion, and instead, sharpen selectively in PP using nothing more complicated than a duplicate layer and the Eraser brush.

I also apply NR selectively if needed, the same way.

It's dead easy, it's quick, and it's no trouble at all.

7D files dealt with like this match the likes of the D700 right up the ISO scale.

I've posted 6400 ISO (another) and 12800 ISO images from my 7D before (3200 ISO is easy) and they want for nothing. Yes they're "only" at web sizes, so you're going to have to trust me when I say that they print really well too.)

If the little bit of extra time my PP involves is too much trouble for some people, that's their problem. I take the view that if it's worth doing, it's worth doing properly - I realise that I may be a minority voice there...

The exif is in all of those - they're all in low light or "available dark".

Suffice to say, the only IQ "problem" the 7D has is that careless sharpening can cause problems: keep away from capture sharpening, and apply such sharpening as you need selectively, and the 7D's IQ is as clean as a whistle at the image level (this last being the final piece of the puzzle - I can pretty much guarantee that people who complain about 7D noise are looking at the files at 100%).

 

[briansquibb]

The price ranges are wrong. Anything under 30MP will need to be no more than $2500, probably closer to $2000. Look at the flack Canon has received for the 1DX's pricing because of Nikon's D4, even though it has more megapixels.

I can imagine the D800 causing a fair amount of angst at Canon.

I know I will be smited for this; but I agree Canon overpriced the 1Dx. This is what I love about free enterprise... Nikon, thank you again for looking out for us Canon guys by releasing new bodies and pricing them reasonably. :-*

You are looking at the Canon top dollar price. The street price will come down to just a little more than the 1D4

 

[thepancakeman]

But perhaps I'm missing part of what you mean?

I'm saying that - with just a little bit of care and effort on a user's part - it's possible to make images that match the D700 in terms of IQ: perhaps with a D700 it might be easier (although as I suggest, that depends on things like what you're shooting and whether you're focal-length limited), but it's still easy with the 7D.

If the little bit of extra time my PP involves is too much trouble for some people, that's their problem. I take the view that if it's worth doing, it's worth doing properly - I realise that I may be a minority voice there...

If it's 3000 images, a "little bit of extra time" adds up pretty quickly.

 

[KeithR]

If it's 3000 images, a "little bit of extra time" adds up pretty quickly.

Can you really name me a circumstance where the need for great IQ (specifically, high levels of detail and low noise), a tight timescale and 3000 images all collide?

It isn't in wedding photography - stellar IQ really isn't a deal-breaker there (I suppose it might be if two photographers were getting married!) and it isn't photojournalism, so what Real World situations exist where my kind of workflow isn't an option?

Bear in mind that at low ISOs (less than 1600 ISO, say), and depending on the intended use of the files, none of that "extra" work might actually be necessary.

 

[thepancakeman]

If it's 3000 images, a "little bit of extra time" adds up pretty quickly.

Can you really name me a circumstance where the need for great IQ (specifically, high levels of detail and low noise), a tight timescale and 3000 images all collide?

It isn't in wedding photography - stellar IQ really isn't a deal-breaker there (I suppose it might be if two photographers were getting married!) and it isn't photojournalism, so what Real World situations exist where my kind of workflow isn't an option?

Bear in mind that at low ISOs, and depending on the intended use of the files, none of that "extra" work might actually be necessary.

750 triathletes each swimming, biking, running, and crossing the finish line.

You could argue the need/definition for great IQ, but as you yourself said, if it's worth doing, do it right. So if there are options that are comparable without PP, that's a big time saver for a better result.

 

[KeithR]

I'd have thought that the biggest issue in that situation is the initial sorting/culling of the files - you're not going to need, use (sell?) all 3,000.

How many images in that scenario will you eventually end up using? Less than 100? Less than 50?

 

[briansquibb]

If it's 3000 images, a "little bit of extra time" adds up pretty quickly.

Can you really name me a circumstance where the need for great IQ (specifically, high levels of detail and low noise), a tight timescale and 3000 images all collide?

It isn't in wedding photography - stellar IQ really isn't a deal-breaker there (I suppose it might be if two photographers were getting married!) and it isn't photojournalism, so what Real World situations exist where my kind of workflow isn't an option?

Bear in mind that at low ISOs, and depending on the intended use of the files, none of that "extra" work might actually be necessary.

750 triathletes each swimming, biking, running, and crossing the finish line.

You could argue the need/definition for great IQ, but as you yourself said, if it's worth doing, do it right. So if there are options that are comparable without PP, that's a big time saver for a better result.

Makes me glad that I have the 1Ds3 for this Sundays cross country race with a mere 250 runners - I have 2 hours to get the CD to the organiser

 

[KeithR]

Makes me glad that I have the 1Ds3 for this Sundays cross country race with a mere 250 runners - I have 2 hours to get the CD to the organiser

No problem with the 7D...

 

[waving_odd]

What do you guys think Canon will do now? Match Nikon on features (since they probably need a high MP body anyway now that the 1dx is the high DR body) or will they go their own route (22mp but better AF etc).

NL is just fed with an anonymous rumor (maybe just a wishful list if you will):

"...Years ago, the 1D line split into the 1D and 1Ds - we've had a suggestion (thanks) that this will shortly happen with the 5D - a 5D3 and 5DX.

5D X

• 45MP (With a pixel size similar to the power shot G1X)
• 61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but simpler)
• 3.4 fps, 100-6400 (50-12800)
• 1 Digic 5+ Digic 4

5D mk III

• 22MP
• 61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but but simpler)
• 6.9 fps, ISO 100-25600(50-51200)
• 1 Digic 5+ Digic 4
• Best HD video quality of any EOS camera

Both over $3k..."

 

[7enderbender]

And Canon has a fast, reliable, dual CF-slot, full frame camera, it is the 1D X. Get that, save up, get a used one 1Ds?

I bought a 1Ds3 as a tactical purchase until the 1DX is a reasonable price. A cracking buy - better IQ than a 5D2, better AF than a 7D, low noise up to its max of iso3200.

It is my walkabout camera now - very good it has proved to be!!

Here is a candid of a young lady I met in a cafe,

natural light, iso3200, f/5.6, 1/60, 70-200II@168

That's what I would do if I had the money right now. Frankly, I'm still not clear what might be attractive about the 1Dx over the 1DsIII. And yes, if I was now where I was 18 months ago when I was starting all over from scratch when going digital I would have a very close look at the D800e. No anti-aliasing filter in combination with higher resolution seems pretty interesting. Again, in general I'm quite happy with my 5DII and I see the appeal of the 1DsIII of course. But I'm just saying. A different filter and sensor approach seems to be the way to go. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that also part of the reason why the Leica M9 produces such stunning sharp results?

 

[kubelik]

What do you guys think Canon will do now? Match Nikon on features (since they probably need a high MP body anyway now that the 1dx is the high DR body) or will they go their own route (22mp but better AF etc).

NL is just fed with an anonymous rumor (maybe just a wishful list if you will):

"...Years ago, the 1D line split into the 1D and 1Ds - we've had a suggestion (thanks) that this will shortly happen with the 5D - a 5D3 and 5DX.

5D X

• 45MP (With a pixel size similar to the power shot G1X)
• 61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but simpler)
• 3.4 fps, 100-6400 (50-12800)
• 1 Digic 5+ Digic 4

5D mk III

• 22MP
• 61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but but simpler)
• 6.9 fps, ISO 100-25600(50-51200)
• 1 Digic 5+ Digic 4
• Best HD video quality of any EOS camera

Both over $3k..."

that does seem like a wishlist, the have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too kind of wishlist we all dream up. the Digic 5 + Digic 4 combined is a big red flag to me; I don't know that you would want to pair two processing cores with (what I'm assuming are) different clock speeds together.

bigger question is, does Canon even feel the need to "answer" the D800? the diffraction and low-ISO noise on the samples is fairly frightening, actually. I think most of us here are looking for something in the mid-to-high 20 MP range (24-28 seems like a sweet spot in terms of IQ and resolution) that has some better performance in the high ISOs, higher frame rates, and improved AF. if Canon gives that to us this year, the D800 will sit lonely in the corner for just as long as the D700 did.

 

[briansquibb]

Makes me glad that I have the 1Ds3 for this Sundays cross country race with a mere 250 runners - I have 2 hours to get the CD to the organiser

No problem with the 7D...

I expect to be on iso3200 to get the shutter speed high enough.

I sold my two 7Ds because of the poor IQ, something the 1Ds3, 1D4 and 5D2 manage without breaking into a sweat.

When you get high speed action then it is not always possible to get the metering correct everytime , especially in poor light. Easy to do in DPP in one action on the RAW files without inducing noise - but it was not possible with the 7D

If the 7D was so noise free and quick to pp then perhaps you might wonder why the sports togs dont use them

 

[waving_odd]

that does seem like a wishlist...

...bigger question is, does Canon even feel the need to "answer" the D800? the diffraction and low-ISO noise on the samples is fairly frightening, actually. I think most of us here are looking for something in the mid-to-high 20 MP range (24-28 seems like a sweet spot in terms of IQ and resolution) that has some better performance in the high ISOs, higher frame rates, and improved AF. if Canon gives that to us this year, the D800 will sit lonely in the corner for just as long as the D700 did.

Also thought it looks more like wishful thinking...

But if it were the case, these 3 models from the 5D and 1D lines will serve almost all working professionals:

[list type=decimal]
[*]1D X: top tier mission-critical photojournalists who need top-notch AF, FPS, ISO, and decent resolution
[*]5D X: studio/landscape/architecture photogs who need MF level resolution and DR
[*]5D III: wedding/journalist photogs who need high quality AF, ISO, and resolution and DR
[/list]

I think Canon will improve their 7D line to the next level (hopefully almost 1D4 level) for wild life shooters.

Just some random thoughts...

 

[thepancakeman]

I'd have thought that the biggest issue in that situation is the initial sorting/culling of the files - you're not going to need, use (sell?) all 3,000.

How many images in that scenario will you eventually end up using? Less than 100? Less than 50?

"Using"= making available to the athletes for personal purchase, so all 3000--which is the culled list out of likely 5000+ shots.

Brain, yup, single sport event with a couple hundred athletes have a whole lot more "breathing" time, but 2 hours to get CD to organize--YIKES!? I try to get a top hundred shots posted by end of the day, but takes the rest of the week to get thru them all. What race are you shooting?

 

[briansquibb]

I'd have thought that the biggest issue in that situation is the initial sorting/culling of the files - you're not going to need, use (sell?) all 3,000.

How many images in that scenario will you eventually end up using? Less than 100? Less than 50?

"Using"= making available to the athletes for personal purchase, so all 3000--which is the culled list out of likely 5000+ shots.

Brain, yup, single sport event with a couple hundred athletes have a whole lot more "breathing" time, but 2 hours to get CD to organize--YIKES!? I try to get a top hundred shots posted by end of the day, but takes the rest of the week to get thru them all. What race are you shooting?

This is the cross country organised by our local running club. I process the RAW files in DPP and use DPP to convert to jpg. A pass through PSE for levels for the bulk of the work. Then a 'eyeball check' for the pictures plus any fixes needed (mostly cropping). Produce the DVD with all the 'raw' jpg pictures and off to the club. The club then load them straight into the web site.

My role (unpaid as I am now an amateur) is just to deliver the processed images. The club takes care of the web site and any sales/distribution.

All done in less than 2 hours. I did it last summer in good light with a 7D and I was very disappointed with the results, did the same in October is worse light with the 1D4 and got nearly 100% keepers (and those I missed I knew I had missed when taking them, usually another runner taking the focus)

 

[thepancakeman]

My role (unpaid as I am now an amateur) is just to deliver the processed images.

Well charge them, and then you're a pro! ;D

 

[briansquibb]

My role (unpaid as I am now an amateur) is just to deliver the processed images.

Well charge them, and then you're a pro! ;D

Too many issues about charging - and I am not interested in that side either.

I would rather do the work that I want to - did some street pictures today amongst other things - rather than do what some client wants me to do.