How much better is AF on 1DX than 5D?

[AlanF]

It's been mentioned that the AF on the 1DX II is much faster and more precise than on the 5DIII. It would be helpful for those of us who might consider getting a 1DX or a 1DX II to hear the experience of those who have used the 1DXs and the 5DIII and/or 5DS.

 

[Memdroid]

I have the 1DX, 5D3 and 5Ds.

The difference are minor but noticeable. I did not do a scientific test, but purely based on my real world usage.
-The 1DX is far faster and more accurate in tracking in Servo than the 5D3. The 5DS is better than the 5D3 in this regards, but the FPS is the bottle neck.
-The outer focus points of the 5D3 is not good with wide angle lenses. It misses quite often IMO, even in one-shot. Both 1DX and 5DS is superb in the outer points.
-In low light, the 1dX does the job the best.
-The accuracy of the metering of the 5Ds is far better than both the 1dX and 5d3, including white balance and exposure. I feel like 5d3 tends to overexpose and the 1dX tends to underexpose. In low light the tables are turned and the 5ds preforms just slightly worse.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

In one shot mode...there is no difference. I think in AI servo, the 1Dx seems more fluid. Which is logical...it's driving at twice the frames per second so I would expect the AF to be proportionate. The big difference (in my opinion) is in AI servo with all the point active...the 1Dx is amazing. The 5DIII is good but not quite as fluid and reactionary. The 1Dx seems to get the same percentage of keepers as the 5DIII...but there's a lot more images to pare through.

 

[Sabaki]

I've watched some birders take bif sequences with a 1DX and they nail at least a 90% keeper rate, which is not the same for users of the 5Diii. (Admittedly, most of the birders in my community will shoot with a 1DX or 7Dii and not the 5Diii)

When chatting to those 1DX users, they advise the following:
* The bigger battery drives the lenses quicker and more efficiently
* The dedicated ITR chip in the 1DX means tracking in AI Servo mode is just way better

Anybody agree or disagree with their above statements?

 

[FEBS]

I've watched some birders take bif sequences with a 1DX and they nail at least a 90% keeper rate, which is not the same for users of the 5Diii. (Admittedly, most of the birders in my community will shoot with a 1DX or 7Dii and not the 5Diii)

When chatting to those 1DX users, they advise the following:
* The bigger battery drives the lenses quicker and more efficiently
* The dedicated ITR chip in the 1DX means tracking in AI Servo mode is just way better

Anybody agree or disagree with their above statements?

I agree with your statement. I have 1Dx, 5Diii and 7Dii. The highest AF keepers rate is for sure for the 1Dx. The comparison between 5Diii and 7Dii seems quite close. I even have the impression the 5Diii gives me better AF caused by the ability to AF in lower light conditions.

 

[FTb-n]

I've watched some birders take bif sequences with a 1DX and they nail at least a 90% keeper rate, which is not the same for users of the 5Diii. (Admittedly, most of the birders in my community will shoot with a 1DX or 7Dii and not the 5Diii)

When chatting to those 1DX users, they advise the following:
* The bigger battery drives the lenses quicker and more efficiently
* The dedicated ITR chip in the 1DX means tracking in AI Servo mode is just way better

Anybody agree or disagree with their above statements?

Absolutely agree with both. The battery benefit is often missed when comparing these two bodies. I have also found that auto exposure (Auto ISO in manual mode) and auto white balance are both more accurate with the 1Dx.

My needs are rather demanding. I shoot a lot of figure skating including ice shows under nothing but spotlights. The AI Servo mode is particularly challenged during rotational jumps. Keep in mind that AI Servo is a predictive algorithm where the system tracks the subject's movement to predict where the subject will be when the shutter is actually tripped. This is why it's best to start tracking a second before shooting. This algorithm is critical for burst mode when the AF system if frequently interrupted when the mirror is up.

During a rotational jump, the subject starts by skating in one direction, which is easy for the camera to track. Then the skater suddenly goes vertical and while in the air, rotates. Now whatever portion of the costume that the focus point locked on is moving up, away, then back toward the camera. With the 5D3, I often lost focus during the jump. This seemed to be hit or miss. It also often tracked without problem. By the way, during practice, skaters often wear black with no contrasting decoration -- yet another challenge for the AF system.

The 1Dx is noticeably more consistent with AF tracking during jumps. It isn't 100% and at full burst, I can still get a frame or two that isn't quite sharp. But, my keeper rate is much higher. Plus, the 12 FPS makes it possible to get a photo of a skater in mid-jump while looking in my direction. With the 5D3, I had to try to time this moment and most often missed. (The 8 FPS burst mode of the 7D was also too slow to get this moment.)

Most recently, I shot skaters during dress rehearsal (under spotlights) while I was on the ice in skates. There were a couple skaters with signature moves that I was able capture while I was moving (actually chasing the skater as they skated away from me during their element). The 1Dx/70-200 f2.8L II did a great job tracking the subject under these circumstances.

 

[Cheekysascha]

-The accuracy of the metering of the 5Ds is far better than both the 1dX and 5d3, including white balance and exposure. I feel like 5d3 tends to overexpose and the 1dX tends to underexpose. In low light the tables are turned and the 5ds preforms just slightly worse.

I have a similar problem with one of my 1DX camera's it seems to always under expose or over expose when used with the 70-200 2.8 is ii however my other 1DX, 5D3 and 5DS always expose correctly with it, maybe it's just broken but sounds sort of similar.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

I've watched some birders take bif sequences with a 1DX and they nail at least a 90% keeper rate, which is not the same for users of the 5Diii. (Admittedly, most of the birders in my community will shoot with a 1DX or 7Dii and not the 5Diii)

When chatting to those 1DX users, they advise the following:
* The bigger battery drives the lenses quicker and more efficiently
* The dedicated ITR chip in the 1DX means tracking in AI Servo mode is just way better

Anybody agree or disagree with their above statements?

Absolutely agree with both. The battery benefit is often missed when comparing these two bodies. I have also found that auto exposure (Auto ISO in manual mode) and auto white balance are both more accurate with the 1Dx.

My needs are rather demanding. I shoot a lot of figure skating including ice shows under nothing but spotlights. The AI Servo mode is particularly challenged during rotational jumps. Keep in mind that AI Servo is a predictive algorithm where the system tracks the subject's movement to predict where the subject will be when the shutter is actually tripped. This is why it's best to start tracking a second before shooting. This algorithm is critical for burst mode when the AF system if frequently interrupted when the mirror is up.

During a rotational jump, the subject starts by skating in one direction, which is easy for the camera to track. Then the skater suddenly goes vertical and while in the air, rotates. Now whatever portion of the costume that the focus point locked on is moving up, away, then back toward the camera. With the 5D3, I often lost focus during the jump. This seemed to be hit or miss. It also often tracked without problem. By the way, during practice, skaters often wear black with no contrasting decoration -- yet another challenge for the AF system.

The 1Dx is noticeably more consistent with AF tracking during jumps. It isn't 100% and at full burst, I can still get a frame or two that isn't quite sharp. But, my keeper rate is much higher. Plus, the 12 FPS makes it possible to get a photo of a skater in mid-jump while looking in my direction. With the 5D3, I had to try to time this moment and most often missed. (The 8 FPS burst mode of the 7D was also too slow to get this moment.)

Most recently, I shot skaters during dress rehearsal (under spotlights) while I was on the ice in skates. There were a couple skaters with signature moves that I was able capture while I was moving (actually chasing the skater as they skated away from me during their element). The 1Dx/70-200 f2.8L II did a great job tracking the subject under these circumstances.

Wow, thanks for this insight. I also have (limited) experience shooting at ice shows and it's a serious challenge for any AF system to handle. Poor lighting (spotlights can be dim, and don't always stay on skater) AND fast action combined. I got, at best, mixed results with the 7D and 60D cameras. The 7D I found to be rather inconsistent, missing even opening/ending pose shots (!) on occasion. The 7D2 in particular was a major disappointment and I had entire series of shots that were no good. That said, the increased buffer of the 7D series often meant I took more shots with them, which translated into more keepers in general than I got with the 60D I was using prior. Has me thinking whether the 1D would make a difference or not...

I find that for me, most missed shots are not necessarily during jumps, but during turns (changes in direction, coming around the rink) and occasionally spins. The biggest contributor, though, appears to be the costume the skater has on. Some skaters can wear smooth, shiny costumes which can really give the AF fits and leads to a noticeably lower hit rate than the skaters who wear more detailed outfits.

 

[[email protected]]

I did not have the 5D3 at the same time as the 1DX's, but have owned a couple of each. My sense was that the 1DX has roughly half the number of focus misses in servo mode, which was already not bad with the 5D3. For someone using a tripod, it probably doesn't seem very different, but someone shooting quick-moving subjects, there really is a big difference.

I highly encourage people to consider the 1DX Mark I used. Take a look on eBay right now. They're going for a bit more than a new 5D3, and less than a 5DSR. I don't have experience personally (yet) with the Mark II, but dollar for value, it's really tough to beat the good condition 1DX Mark Is that just got dumped on eBay by all those people having to have the newest version.

 

[tpatana]

I sometimes shoot at fairly dim locations, and yes, 1DX did better on servo that 5D3. Less hunting. I didn't know 5D3 was bad until I got the 1DX though. Exactly same happened from 7D to 5D3 also.

 

[AlanF]

Thanks everyone so far for your comments. Much appreciated.

 

[FTb-n]

I've watched some birders take bif sequences with a 1DX and they nail at least a 90% keeper rate, which is not the same for users of the 5Diii. (Admittedly, most of the birders in my community will shoot with a 1DX or 7Dii and not the 5Diii)

When chatting to those 1DX users, they advise the following:
* The bigger battery drives the lenses quicker and more efficiently
* The dedicated ITR chip in the 1DX means tracking in AI Servo mode is just way better

Anybody agree or disagree with their above statements?

Absolutely agree with both. The battery benefit is often missed when comparing these two bodies. I have also found that auto exposure (Auto ISO in manual mode) and auto white balance are both more accurate with the 1Dx.

My needs are rather demanding. I shoot a lot of figure skating including ice shows under nothing but spotlights. The AI Servo mode is particularly challenged during rotational jumps. Keep in mind that AI Servo is a predictive algorithm where the system tracks the subject's movement to predict where the subject will be when the shutter is actually tripped. This is why it's best to start tracking a second before shooting. This algorithm is critical for burst mode when the AF system if frequently interrupted when the mirror is up.

During a rotational jump, the subject starts by skating in one direction, which is easy for the camera to track. Then the skater suddenly goes vertical and while in the air, rotates. Now whatever portion of the costume that the focus point locked on is moving up, away, then back toward the camera. With the 5D3, I often lost focus during the jump. This seemed to be hit or miss. It also often tracked without problem. By the way, during practice, skaters often wear black with no contrasting decoration -- yet another challenge for the AF system.

The 1Dx is noticeably more consistent with AF tracking during jumps. It isn't 100% and at full burst, I can still get a frame or two that isn't quite sharp. But, my keeper rate is much higher. Plus, the 12 FPS makes it possible to get a photo of a skater in mid-jump while looking in my direction. With the 5D3, I had to try to time this moment and most often missed. (The 8 FPS burst mode of the 7D was also too slow to get this moment.)

Most recently, I shot skaters during dress rehearsal (under spotlights) while I was on the ice in skates. There were a couple skaters with signature moves that I was able capture while I was moving (actually chasing the skater as they skated away from me during their element). The 1Dx/70-200 f2.8L II did a great job tracking the subject under these circumstances.

Wow, thanks for this insight. I also have (limited) experience shooting at ice shows and it's a serious challenge for any AF system to handle. Poor lighting (spotlights can be dim, and don't always stay on skater) AND fast action combined. I got, at best, mixed results with the 7D and 60D cameras. The 7D I found to be rather inconsistent, missing even opening/ending pose shots (!) on occasion. The 7D2 in particular was a major disappointment and I had entire series of shots that were no good. That said, the increased buffer of the 7D series often meant I took more shots with them, which translated into more keepers in general than I got with the 60D I was using prior. Has me thinking whether the 1D would make a difference or not...

I find that for me, most missed shots are not necessarily during jumps, but during turns (changes in direction, coming around the rink) and occasionally spins. The biggest contributor, though, appears to be the costume the skater has on. Some skaters can wear smooth, shiny costumes which can really give the AF fits and leads to a noticeably lower hit rate than the skaters who wear more detailed outfits.

Figure skating was a key factor in my gear acquisitions. I went from an XT to the 60D with the 70-200 f2.8L II. The 60D was obviously a big improvement over the XT, but it often had tracking issues when the skater changed directions. Then I went to the 7D and tracking improved immensely. But, during ice shows, I still needed better low-light performance and added the 5D3. The 5D3 lacked the buffer, FPS, and the dual processors of the 7D, but the AF system was still an improvement. The really big jump (no pun intended) in performance came with the 1Dx.

You are absolutely right with the observation of a skater's costume. AF systems like contrast. I sometimes have the most trouble during practice ice (with full arena lights) with skaters who wear all black practice attire.

Another factor that drove my need for better gear is the skill of the skaters. Early on, my main concern was photographing my daughter. As she progressed, I started shooting more for the club and more of other skaters in her group. Now they are among the most advance skaters in the club and the elements that perform involves more speed and more rotation. With better gear and more practice getting shots of these skaters in action, shooting younger skaters doing single jumps seems so much easier than it did a few years ago.