If the 1Dx shows a substantial improvment in sensor technology....

[Marsu42]

Might it be Canon guys are playing with the sensor and don't want those out-of-date images to float around?

Not necessarily - but they surely don't want random commercial seo blogs to have a head-start on inbound 1dx Google links. You just made this point by providing the link. Canon's marketing will make sure that once the 1dx is released, only "reliable" sites get the first reviews out of the door and are placed on top at search engines.

 

[marekjoz]

who cares if it pleases the Nikon trolls and photographer wannabes? Does it make anyone a better photographer? No. (...)

There is one very important thing, that people seem not to understand. Such tests and publications are very very important for Canon and us as well no matter if we believe in DXO metrics or not. If such a comparison with it's numbers (ie 95vs83) goes to public, then public will decide upon future buys of equipment basing on those numbers.

For them it means:
1. D800 is much much better camera than 5d3
2. These are the newest cameras on this level (semipro) of boths companies and it shows the actual technical potential of companies
3. If so then it's not worth to go Canon because Nikon evolves faster

Then Canon doesn't sell so much as wanted and income decreases. If income decreases then there is less money for R&D and it has influence on everyone here. The more important will be 1dx then.

Conclusion is - no matter how you feel with the camera and find it, it is also important for us how public reacts for those numbers because it has a real influence even on people who don't believe DXO comparison.

What is even more important - public buys Rebels but looks for comparisons in the whole range of cameras. What's worse - D3200 also might be better evaluated in comparisons than next Rebel. Canon's total income in imaging products doesn't come only from people on this forum. As indicated in a poll for Canon's next sensors department move - we think that "they don't care a S___ and listen to pros" but will the public do as well?

 

[Loswr]

There is one very important thing, that people seem not to understand. Such tests and publications are very very important for Canon and us as well no matter if we believe in DXO metrics or not. If such a comparison with it's numbers (ie 95vs83) goes to public, then public will decide upon future buys of equipment basing on those numbers.

There is one more very important thing that people seem not to understand. Such tests are basically meaningless in terms of the public deciding upon future purchases. Try this - go back through a few generations of cameras, and for the past 5 years, who's sensors have tested 'better'? Nikon, by a fair margin across the range of basic entry-level dSLR to pro dSLR. Now, compare market share over the same period - during the time when Nikon 'owned' Canon for sensor performance, market share went from about equal to Canon increasing 5% while Nikon lost 10%. So...how much did those higher scores help Nikon? Less than zero.

 

[briansquibb]

I was only kidding. The 24-105 is my primary workhorse lends. I love it. It's helped pay many of my bills

I know you were 8) I just find it such a goot lens ;D

 

[JR]

There is one very important thing, that people seem not to understand. Such tests and publications are very very important for Canon and us as well no matter if we believe in DXO metrics or not. If such a comparison with it's numbers (ie 95vs83) goes to public, then public will decide upon future buys of equipment basing on those numbers.

There is one more very important thing that people seem not to understand. Such tests are basically meaningless in terms of the public deciding upon future purchases. Try this - go back through a few generations of cameras, and for the past 5 years, who's sensors have tested 'better'? Nikon, by a fair margin across the range of basic entry-level dSLR to pro dSLR. Now, compare market share over the same period - during the time when Nikon 'owned' Canon for sensor performance, market share went from about equal to Canon increasing 5% while Nikon lost 10%. So...how much did those higher scores help Nikon? Less than zero.

That might explain why Canon may not care that much about those test. Am sure they would like them to be good, but if they beleive the past is a good predictor of the future for this one, then they will have little incentive to change anything...unless sales goes south!

:-[

 

[stabmasterasron]

There is one very important thing, that people seem not to understand. Such tests and publications are very very important for Canon and us as well no matter if we believe in DXO metrics or not. If such a comparison with it's numbers (ie 95vs83) goes to public, then public will decide upon future buys of equipment basing on those numbers.

There is one more very important thing that people seem not to understand. Such tests are basically meaningless in terms of the public deciding upon future purchases. Try this - go back through a few generations of cameras, and for the past 5 years, who's sensors have tested 'better'? Nikon, by a fair margin across the range of basic entry-level dSLR to pro dSLR. Now, compare market share over the same period - during the time when Nikon 'owned' Canon for sensor performance, market share went from about equal to Canon increasing 5% while Nikon lost 10%. So...how much did those higher scores help Nikon? Less than zero.

That might explain why Canon may not care that much about those test. Am sure they would like them to be good, but if they beleive the past is a good predictor of the future for this one, then they will have little incentive to change anything...unless sales goes south!

:-[

Really? Is anyone who is considering the purchase of a 1DX really waiting on the outcome of the DXO test results? What I mean specifically is - is anyone deciding between the purchase of a 1Dx or a D4 based on this test result? I have to assume that if someone is considering the purchase of a 1Dx that they are not a p&s upgrader. They probably have a stable of Canon lenses. And would a test result really be enough for them to switch systems? I can see, maybe, a person skipping a generation of bodies - but cannot see switching systems.

 

[Loswr]

Is anyone who is considering the purchase of a 1DX really waiting on the outcome of the DXO test results?

If the 1D X doesn't score at least a 90 on the DxOMark testing, I'm going to take each and every piece of Canon gear I own - 2 gripped bodies, 12 lenses plus two teleconverters, 3 flashes, and various accessories, dip them one by one into a vat of liquid nitrogen then drop each from the top of my 12-story building to the pavement below, sweep up the pile of glass, metal, and plastic dust, treat the dust with concentrated hydroflouric acid, then incinerate the resulting sludge. After that, I'll place a $30K claim with my insurance company, and go buy a Harley instead. A score <90 = to hell with photography.


Ok, I exaggerate just a little bit.

 

[danski0224]

If the 1D X doesn't score at least a 90 on the DxOMark testing, I'm going to take each and every piece of Canon gear I own - 2 gripped bodies, 12 lenses plus two teleconverters, 3 flashes, and various accessories, dip them one by one into a vat of liquid nitrogen then drop each from the top of my 12-story building to the pavement below, sweep up the pile of glass, metal, and plastic dust, treat the dust with concentrated hydroflouric acid, then incinerate the resulting sludge. After that, I'll place a $30K claim with my insurance company, and go buy a Harley instead. A score <90 = to hell with photography.

One vote here for video.

Do you really need the liquid nitrogen *and* 12 stories? Surely, tabletop height will do just fine.

 

[V8Beast]

Riddle me this.

What if the 1DX not only matches the D4's DR but is better than the D4?

And what if the 1DX exceeds the D4 performance in other areas, such as noise, etc?

I'd offer my worthless congrats to Canon, but otherwise, I won't care. The 5DIII is all the camera I'll need for quite some time. I was never in the market for a 1Dx, so I don't see the point in getting worked up about a product I never planned on buying. I do find it amusing how some people formulate their opinion of an entire company and it's entire product line based solely on one or two performance metrics, hence the reason for this thread.

 

[PhilDrinkwater]

I do find it amusing how some people formulate their opinion of an entire company and it's entire product line based solely on one or two performance metrics, hence the reason for this thread.

Yep!

Realistically 1/2 stop difference is very very difficult to spot and that's what we're talking about here.

Put some d800 and d4 and 5d3 and 1dx reasonable sized prints at different ISOs side by side and I doubt anyone would be able to confidently say what print came from which camera. Even pixel peeping at, say, 13mp it may be impossible to say.

 

[V8Beast]

Is anyone who is considering the purchase of a 1DX really waiting on the outcome of the DXO test results? What I mean specifically is - is anyone deciding between the purchase of a 1Dx or a D4 based on this test result?the

Other than a few extremely wealthy hobbyists, of course not! With the 1Dx, you're not just in pro territory. The 1Dx's price puts it in the realm of pros who aren't just doing reasonably well, but whose businesses are doing very well. I'd venture to say that most pros have never even heard of DxO sensor tests before. They're too busy making money with their gear to bicker about their gear online.

 

[marekjoz]

Is anyone who is considering the purchase of a 1DX really waiting on the outcome of the DXO test results?

If the 1D X doesn't score at least a 90 on the DxOMark testing, I'm going to take each and every piece of Canon gear I own - 2 gripped bodies, 12 lenses plus two teleconverters, 3 flashes, and various accessories, dip them one by one into a vat of liquid nitrogen then drop each from the top of my 12-story building to the pavement below, sweep up the pile of glass, metal, and plastic dust, treat the dust with concentrated hydroflouric acid, then incinerate the resulting sludge. After that, I'll place a $30K claim with my insurance company, and go buy a Harley instead. A score <90 = to hell with photography.


Ok, I exaggerate just a little bit.

@Neuro - you're not public but individual(ist) so changing sides won't happen in your case. I see your point and that's correct - Canon has never achieved good results in DXO and still hold it's leader position. I just see those sellers advising starters looking for their first DSLR...

 

[Loswr]

I just see those sellers advising starters looking for their first DSLR...

What proportion of 'starters looking for their first DSLR' would be seriously considering a 5DIII, D800, or other >$3K investment that doesn't even come with a lens? I don't know that answer, but I bet it's along the lines of 'damn small'.

 

[briansquibb]

Other than a few extremely wealthy hobbyists, of course not! With the 1Dx, you're not just in pro territory. The 1Dx's price puts it in the realm of pros who aren't just doing reasonably well, but whose businesses are doing very well. I'd venture to say that most pros have never even heard of DxO sensor tests before. They're too busy making money with their gear to bicker about their gear online.

The 1Dx is only the price of a car or half the price of a Harley - so I dont think extremely wealthy is a valid precurser to buying a 1Dx

 

[marekjoz]

I just see those sellers advising starters looking for their first DSLR...

What proportion of 'starters looking for their first DSLR' would be seriously considering a 5DIII, D800, or other >$3K investment that doesn't even come with a lens? I don't know that answer, but I bet it's along the lines of 'damn small'.

One of several "typical" sales discussions:
Customer (C) - Hello, I want some good and cheap DSLR camera. I've heard they are great and we want it on our holidays
Seller (S) - OK, are you looking for something specific or maybe you still don't know what you want?
C - I'm not pro. Just want something better than our Ixus
S - OK, so Canon then?
C - We bought some time ago, I'm relatively satisfied but I don't know what's currently the best
S - Well, Canon is still very good and I could recommend it. What will you be shooting?
C - Just my wife and kids. My friend who owns a DSLR for five years told me that Nikons are now better and cheaper
S - Well, they are comparable although indeed some tests show, that in some areas it might be better, but Canon was always better.
C - Which is cheaper?
S - Nikon
C - Then if Nikon is better and cheaper then I take one

 

[Loswr]

C - Just my wife and kids. My friend who owns a DSLR for five years told me that Nikons are now better and cheaper
S - Well, they are comparable although indeed some tests show, that in some areas it might be better, but Canon was always better.
C - Which is cheaper?
S - Nikon
C - Then if Nikon is better and cheaper then I take one

S - Excellent choice. The D800 costs $3,000, and you'll also be needing a lens, the 24-120mm VR is perfect, and that will be an additional $1,300, bringing your total to $4,300 plus tax. Will that be cash or charge?
C - WTF? Four thousand f___ing dollars for a camera? What kind of s___ty store is this? <smacks S across the face and walks out>



Oh, wait, maybe you were talking about actual entry level cameras? In that case, D3200+18-55mm kit is $700, T3i/600D+18-55mm kit is $625. In the above discussion, cheaper wins, and C walks out with a shiny new Canon dSLR.

 

[V8Beast]

Other than a few extremely wealthy hobbyists, of course not! With the 1Dx, you're not just in pro territory. The 1Dx's price puts it in the realm of pros who aren't just doing reasonably well, but whose businesses are doing very well. I'd venture to say that most pros have never even heard of DxO sensor tests before. They're too busy making money with their gear to bicker about their gear online.

The 1Dx is only the price of a car or half the price of a Harley - so I dont think extremely wealthy is a valid precurser to buying a 1Dx

OK, maybe just somewhat wealthy

 

[tron]

I will love Canon if they just release the damned camera. I can't wait any longer!

They must be busy covering the bottom of the LCD to prevent light leak ;D

Seriously now let's hope they thought again for that missing f8 thing...

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

There is one very important thing, that people seem not to understand. Such tests and publications are very very important for Canon and us as well no matter if we believe in DXO metrics or not. If such a comparison with it's numbers (ie 95vs83) goes to public, then public will decide upon future buys of equipment basing on those numbers.

There is one more very important thing that people seem not to understand. Such tests are basically meaningless in terms of the public deciding upon future purchases. Try this - go back through a few generations of cameras, and for the past 5 years, who's sensors have tested 'better'? Nikon, by a fair margin across the range of basic entry-level dSLR to pro dSLR. Now, compare market share over the same period - during the time when Nikon 'owned' Canon for sensor performance, market share went from about equal to Canon increasing 5% while Nikon lost 10%. So...how much did those higher scores help Nikon? Less than zero.

They really tested better across the board until very recently, certainly not without caveats.

D3x had good DR and solid SNR and high MP but it was only in a $$$$$$$ body. (5D2 avail at fraction of the price)

D3s was best at SNR but it had very few MP and the DR wasn't TONS better than Canon, although it was better. (5D2 sensor had tons more MP)

D300 and D300s sensor weren't any better than 7D at all.

D90 was in a cheap little body only.

D7000 had a very good sensor but that was somewhat more recent.

D700 had a lot less MP than the 5D2 and the DR wasn't THAT much better, not like the D4 DR nevermind anything like D7000 or D800 DR.

 

[distant.star]

All I see there is a nice sweater!

Seriously, nice picture.

A picture from yesterday with the 7D + 24-105. This is an old but much loved, angora goat. The brief was, as is mostly, to capture the character of the animal rather than all washed and brushed which it never was. Most of the owners want images that reflect the animal as they saw it day to day - hence it is covered in hay ...