Initial thoughts on the 5D4 after some use

[Danzig]

This I do not like:
Its a large JPEG straight out of the Camera, just cropped to keep the file size small. Pretty low light, the stones are properly exposed I think. Focus seems about OK, on the pebbles, but there is no detail whatsoever on the bird. OK, the bird is darker so somewhat underexposed. But there is just no information at all in the dark areas of the bird, just brown mush.
My error? Just not ETTR enough?

Cheers Brian

The only person who could miss with this gun, is the sucker with the bread to buy it.

So this is your insight, the one worth sharing with thousands of other photographers...after how long using the 5D4? Nice first post under this name!

New camera, yes but the basics stay the same. Faster shutter speed next time please.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi YuengLinger.

+1, well said.

Cheers, Graham.

This I do not like:
Its a large JPEG straight out of the Camera, just cropped to keep the file size small. Pretty low light, the stones are properly exposed I think. Focus seems about OK, on the pebbles, but there is no detail whatsoever on the bird. OK, the bird is darker so somewhat underexposed. But there is just no information at all in the dark areas of the bird, just brown mush.
My error? Just not ETTR enough?

Cheers Brian

The only person who could miss with this gun, is the sucker with the bread to buy it.

So this is your insight, the one worth sharing with thousands of other photographers...after how long using the 5D4? Nice first post under this name!

 

[mackguyver]

Constructive advice needed, please.
Shooting conditions sunday evening were difficult due to a large crowd, the darkness, the very bright LED lights on the side of the cruise Liner, and its normal lighting. So, I also tried bracketing some shots, most done by adjusting exposure time and not ISO. I've included a sample shot that was the least exposed.
For me the histogram shows at the right some overexposure, but no clipping at the left. I was worried about reducing the exposure even further to get rid of all overexposure and ending up with the rest of the photo being nearly black. For me the most obvious overexposure is on the funnel. Being too dark I was worried about noise if I lightened up the shadows to get some detail at least.
Is there any solution in such extreme lighting conditions?
HDR or EDR or IDR with multiple shots is out of the question really due to noise and the ship moving.
So what would the professionals do?
Cheers Brain

I don't make my living shooting as some here do, but if I were doing this as paid work, I'd focus on what was most important, the ship or the shadows. I would assume the ship, so I would prioritize the highlights and would try to use the shadows for composition (work with what you've got). I had a commercial shoot a while back and one of the shots my client wanted was of some local caverns, so I had similar choice in terms of highlights vs. shadows. I used the roof of the caverns and the formations to frame the shot and give it depth.

If I had to get an HDR type photo, I would likely use ISO to bracket 2 proper exposures of the ship and shadows to avoid having to push them and to freeze the action. I'd use high NR in processing on the shadows adding a tinge of Gaussian blur afterwards but before sharpening (or better yet, use DxO PRIME) and create a composite of the two exposures.

If I wanted to be creative, I might take long exposure (several minutes) to create a light trail of the ship and expose the pier correctly and possibly another clear shot of the ship at the end to overlay to give it a 2nd curtain look.

 

[scottkinfw]

ive been putting my new 5D mark 4 thru its paces this week American HS football and New York Fashion Week
here's some sample JPGs
shooting in ISO's 160-too as high as 5000+
9H6A0349-1 by Big Ant TV Media LLC, on Flickr

9H6A0510-1 by Big Ant TV Media LLC, on Flickr

Two beautiful shots under vastly different conditions. No much not to love. Thanks for sharing.
Scott

 

[bjd]

tiggy, thanks for starting one of the very best threads in months!

bjd, please, stick to the OP's topic, helpful insights on Canon's newest. You can start other threads with questions on how to achieve results with settings, techniques, and post processing.

Sure.

 

[bjd]

This I do not like:
Its a large JPEG straight out of the Camera, just cropped to keep the file size small. Pretty low light, the stones are properly exposed I think. Focus seems about OK, on the pebbles, but there is no detail whatsoever on the bird. OK, the bird is darker so somewhat underexposed. But there is just no information at all in the dark areas of the bird, just brown mush.
My error? Just not ETTR enough?

Cheers Brian

The only person who could miss with this gun, is the sucker with the bread to buy it.

So this is your insight, the one worth sharing with thousands of other photographers...after how long using the 5D4? Nice first post under this name!

New camera, yes but the basics stay the same. Faster shutter speed next time please.

True with the faster shutter, even though 1/750th should be OK for a starting bird, especially the body.
Maybe not the wings.
I have never seen such mush on the 5D3, I guess its just how the camera internal SW created the Jpeg out of this situation. I never used the Internal jpegs on the mk3 and now that LR is working, they are switched off on the mk4 again. I'm loving the quality of the RAWs.
Cheers

 

[KeithBreazeal]

Yup, the 5-stop push. Like who would really do this in real life?
The DR is already a lot better than my 5D III was, but I couldn't
resist a peek at the "black hole".
I picked this shot from the Reno Air Races as an example.(my only shoot so far)

Canon 5D Mark IV 5 stop push LR6 3379 © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr

back to the real world- editing

Canon 5D Mark IV test LR6 3255 © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr

and finished

Reno 2016 Steve working on Voodoo 4255 © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr

One of the things that pleased me the most is the color reproduction of the 5D IV. I think the RGB metering system was a giant leap forward. Shadow color noise is greatly reduced and still good edge detail in the dark areas.
I did test the in-camera lens corrections. I selected all the possible corrections and then fired away... one shot and it buffered for a few seconds. The lesson here is that it kills the ability to shoot multiple frames per second. Maybe Landscape photography would be the best use.
AI Servo focusing accuracy and speed produced a better keeper rate compared to the 5D III. That is major.

I think there are going to be a lot of great reviews coming. My experience after one week is nothing short of superb.

 

[mackguyver]

Keith, thank you for the example, and 5 stops can be necessary at times, especially for those, "Oh bleep, I bumped the aperture from f/2.8 to f/16 shots." Not that any of us have ever done that.

Alas, I have a related question for the 5D4 shooters - how does this compare to the 5DS(R)? I picked one up recently and was surprised by the usable DR improvement over the 5D3. It reminded me of the boost from the 5D2 to the 5D3 in terms of improved ability to push the shadows.

 

[bjd]

Constructive advice needed, please.
Shooting conditions sunday evening were difficult due to a large crowd, the darkness, the very bright LED lights on the side of the cruise Liner, and its normal lighting. So, I also tried bracketing some shots, most done by adjusting exposure time and not ISO. I've included a sample shot that was the least exposed.
For me the histogram shows at the right some overexposure, but no clipping at the left. I was worried about reducing the exposure even further to get rid of all overexposure and ending up with the rest of the photo being nearly black. For me the most obvious overexposure is on the funnel. Being too dark I was worried about noise if I lightened up the shadows to get some detail at least.
Is there any solution in such extreme lighting conditions?
HDR or EDR or IDR with multiple shots is out of the question really due to noise and the ship moving.
So what would the professionals do?
Cheers Brain

......
I'd use high NR in processing on the shadows adding a tinge of Gaussian blur afterwards but before sharpening (or better yet, use DxO PRIME) and create a composite of the two exposures.
........

OK thanks. I'll look into the NR processing just in the shadows, I assume you use something other than LR for that?
CHeers Brian

 

[mackguyver]

OK thanks. I'll look into the NR processing just in the shadows, I assume you use something other than LR for that?
CHeers Brian

I typically use DxO Optics Pro (scroll down to the PRIME 2016 to see the feature http://www.dxo.com/us/photography/photo-software/dxo-opticspro/features)

LR is great, too, though as the NR sliders allow you to customize the NR, but PRIME in the DxO software is quite amazing at shots over ISO 3200.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

OK thanks. I'll look into the NR processing just in the shadows, I assume you use something other than LR for that?
CHeers Brian

I typically use DxO Optics Pro (scroll down to the PRIME 2016 to see the feature http://www.dxo.com/us/photography/photo-software/dxo-opticspro/features)

LR is great, too, though as the NR sliders allow you to customize the NR, but PRIME in the DxO software is quite amazing at shots over ISO 3200.

I've used DXO for a few years, but only on really challenging shots. This is from a few years ago with a 7D and DXO version 8.5. Newer versions are even better in the processing. The screen shot is really a crappy example, but you get the idea.

Super Moon editing before & after © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr

 

[Helevitia]

A quick test shot with my 5DM4. Shot a 1/125, F/4.5, ISO100. I'm coming from a 7D, so to me, the amount of detail I am getting out of the shadows and dark areas is amazing.

 

[Jack Douglas]

KeithBreazeal, Helevitia, thanks for that. I'm on the fence until spring and am interested in the feedback. Reeding everything carefully.

Jack

 

[KeithBreazeal]

KeithBreazeal, Helevitia, thanks for that. I'm on the fence until spring and am interested in the feedback. Reeding everything carefully.

Jack

The DR improvement is quite noticeable to me. Shooting backlit planes at the Reno Air Races was the acid test. Being able to bring the shadows up without noise and color problems was my biggest ah-ha moment.
You can look at all the charts and graphs, but in the real world the photos speak for themselves. I am 100% happy with my decision. There is a lot more to the Mark IV that what I saw early on. There are some really cool menu settings to manage exposure- especially centered around Auto-ISO.("save you ass settings")
Colors a really nice and pure. Even "day-glow" colors are reproduced as your eye sees them. I think the RGB metering kicks ass! The RGB metering system works with the Dual-Pixel object tracking to further enhance tracking the subject and accurate exposure.
There is some very cool stuff in this camera.

 

[bjd]

OK thanks. I'll look into the NR processing just in the shadows, I assume you use something other than LR for that?
CHeers Brian

I typically use DxO Optics Pro (scroll down to the PRIME 2016 to see the feature http://www.dxo.com/us/photography/photo-software/dxo-opticspro/features)

LR is great, too, though as the NR sliders allow you to customize the NR, but PRIME in the DxO software is quite amazing at shots over ISO 3200.

I have a licence for Topaz Denoise that I stopped using with the 5D3 as I saw very little improvement over LR. Just downloaded the newest version, it can also do NR separately for highlights and shadows. First results look good, I think I'll even take a look at a tutorial............
In LR I thought NR was OK if used sparingly, but using the trick with the ALT key and the masking slider always gave me strange artefacts.
And I'll take a look at DxO Prime too.
Cheers Brian

 

[mackguyver]

OK thanks. I'll look into the NR processing just in the shadows, I assume you use something other than LR for that?
CHeers Brian

I typically use DxO Optics Pro (scroll down to the PRIME 2016 to see the feature http://www.dxo.com/us/photography/photo-software/dxo-opticspro/features)

LR is great, too, though as the NR sliders allow you to customize the NR, but PRIME in the DxO software is quite amazing at shots over ISO 3200.

I have a licence for Topaz Denoise that I stopped using with the 5D3 as I saw very little improvement over LR. Just downloaded the newest version, it can also do NR separately for highlights and shadows. First results look good, I think I'll even take a look at a tutorial............
In LR I thought NR was OK if used sparingly, but using the trick with the ALT key and the masking slider always gave me strange artefacts.
And I'll take a look at DxO Prime too.
Cheers Brian

Topaz makes some of the best plugins out there. I can't tell you how many years of my life I have saved by using Topaz Remask and it and their other stuff seems to get better and better with each version. I haven't tried the Denoise one in a while, but I imagine it's pretty good. Definitely give DxO a try. They have a free trial version and the PRIME feature is pretty amazing, even for a jaded guy like me who has been using PhotoShop for 20+ years. It essentially give you another full stop of ISO, plus you can sharpen and boost colors without everything turning into plastic mush. It's pretty slow when you export the photo, even on a fast computer, but the results are worth it.

 

[bjd]

OK thanks. I'll look into the NR processing just in the shadows, I assume you use something other than LR for that?
CHeers Brian

I typically use DxO Optics Pro (scroll down to the PRIME 2016 to see the feature http://www.dxo.com/us/photography/photo-software/dxo-opticspro/features)

LR is great, too, though as the NR sliders allow you to customize the NR, but PRIME in the DxO software is quite amazing at shots over ISO 3200.

I have a licence for Topaz Denoise that I stopped using with the 5D3 as I saw very little improvement over LR. Just downloaded the newest version, it can also do NR separately for highlights and shadows. First results look good, I think I'll even take a look at a tutorial............
In LR I thought NR was OK if used sparingly, but using the trick with the ALT key and the masking slider always gave me strange artefacts.
And I'll take a look at DxO Prime too.
Cheers Brian

Topaz makes some of the best plugins out there. I can't tell you how many years of my life I have saved by using Topaz Remask and it and their other stuff seems to get better and better with each version. I haven't tried the Denoise one in a while, but I imagine it's pretty good. Definitely give DxO a try. They have a free trial version and the PRIME feature is pretty amazing, even for a jaded guy like me who has been using PhotoShop for 20+ years. It essentially give you another full stop of ISO, plus you can sharpen and boost colors without everything turning into plastic mush. It's pretty slow when you export the photo, even on a fast computer, but the results are worth it.

OK will do. Cheers.

 

[DannyPwins]

Just used my 5D4 for the first time this weekend, shooting an event. Coming from a 6D this camera is a major upgrade. The best stills camera I've used to date.

 

[cpsico]

Seems really good at higher ISO's that I would actually use in real life. This is from a converted raw file 100 percent crop.
iso 1600
iso 3200

 

[COBRASoft]

For what's it worth... I can agree on the DxO Prime capabilities. It's the best out there IMHO.

Topaz... Amazing, but often over the top. Most of the time, I reduce the effects by 50 or 65 %.