Interview: Canon addresses overheating concerns, workarounds and the Cripple Hammer

sobrien

EOS M50
CR Pro
Apr 26, 2020
42
72
I was surprised that the main (not only) focus seems to be on user protection from low temperature burns. To the extent that that is limiting the recording lengths then there should really be a way of disabling that at the user’s discretion, e.g. for tripod use where that is not a consideration.
 

docsmith

EOS R
CR Pro
Sep 17, 2010
1,057
499
Good interview. I very much appreciated some of the insight provided in the answers. One answer I thought was particularly telling in that Canon has thought through this:

"This is where we come to the first of the two governing factors that affect the cameras when it comes to overheating. Holding a very warm object for an extended period has the potential to result in what is known as low temperature burns. Secondary is to protect the internal components of the camera from the overheating. We limit how hot the external body of the camera can get to protect users, which is one of the causes of overheat shutdown. Some heat management must also be applied to ensure the camera continues to operate."
 

goldenhusky

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 2, 2016
432
253
Let’s be honest.

1. the idea of a hybrid camera, in the R5/R6 is pretty good.

2.Canon dropped the ball on what it can do. The marketing was wrong and misleading

3. We do look at other manufacturers and we do feel like canon could make something a little more inline with what content creators want
E.g. longer record time, really great 1080 and 4K without having to be limited in anyways, A GOOD AUDIO SOLUTION and a decent dynamic range.

I do feel that the camera(s) that the have released are great and check many of the boxes we wanted but those cameras did Mia the mark slightly. The glass and auto focus are great. The ability to navigate through the menus are great but those aspects alone won’t make us not look at Sony. I love canon but Sony is listening. Like why no 1080p 120 or 240 frames. That’s easy to do through firmware.

I wish canon would stop “anticipating” what we want and actually listen to what we want

4.These are great cameras. Great hybrid cameras and we are happy Canon made them.

5. we are still waiting for ourCanon holy grail camera for creators. One that looks good and doesn’t have many “artificial” limitations.
A camera we can be proud to endorse to other creators and friends without having to give a disclaimer before recommending the camera.

You are trying to preach to a fanboy crowd who lack even common sense. Don't waste your time responding to all these clowns. Like you I also like Canon and that's the only reason people like us wish Canon will give us the best camera in the market. The moment one criticizes Canon here, this crowd calls them Sony fanboy, paid by Sony, etc. The fanboy crowd is everywhere, I have come across lot of people who become fanboys of one or the other corporate and lose their common sense. If you go to NR, SAR, etc they have their fair share of fanboys. Another cult is the Apple fanboy crowd, man try saying anything which you don't like about apple products (actually don't try :D).

You are 100% Canon did dropped the ball once again and marketing was misleading but the majority here in CR can never ever understand that. Nobody cried for 8k camera, we have been asking Canon for a high quality 4k camera, I mean the 4k HQ type video quality and 4k60p. But Canon was more interested in creating a marketing hype with 8k and disappointed us on the 4k video. Even simple things like getting rid of the 29:59 time limit when there is no tax advantage anymore seems like an easy fix but not for Canon and fanboys will backup Canon no matter what.
 

Joules

doom
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,717
2,130
Hamburg, Germany
You are 100% Canon did dropped the ball once again and marketing was misleading but the majority here in CR can never ever understand that. Nobody cried for 8k camera, we have been asking Canon for a high quality 4k camera, I mean the 4k HQ type video quality and 4k60p. But Canon was more interested in creating a marketing hype with 8k and disappointed us on the 4k video.
You are disappointed by the 4K video. So, you had expectations that weren't met. What did you base those expactions on? Which marketing material mislead you into expecting the 4K performance you did?
 

Go Wild

EOS RP
Dec 8, 2014
290
354
I am working with the EOS R5 now since the 30th July. The camera is just amazing! For stills I am chocked with the performance of the sensor, it delivers such pleasant and detailed photos! For me it´s the best camera camera in the market!

For video, I must confess that the first use was a chock! I got overheating pretty soon in a hot day when I was shooting stills first and then video. The main problem is not the record times it´s that the camera is always loosing record time when in use, even if you are not recording. But I record in Atomos externally so the only big deal was in 4k120fps. After the firmware upgrade i am getting much better results and after that I didn´t had overheating anymore. Also the days are now colder in my country so tht may help either.... Last week I was filming vultures in a project and I was using 4k60fps recorded in atomos and 4k120fps internally in card. I filled the card and continued recording in atomos. I also made some photos. No overheating. So I guess camera did improve and if you use the atomos you will probably don´t have issues at all.

So far....I am in love with this camera!!!

If you want to check the vídeo, recorded with 4k100fps and 4k50fps in C-log, neutral, with just a bit grading. I used Canon Lut for the 4k100fps but for some reason the lut doesn´t work good with prores files that came from the atomos so I had to match them by hand. The image quality in video of this camera is outstanding!!!

 

Rocksthaman

Eos R , R6 , R5
Jul 9, 2020
132
158
You are trying to preach to a fanboy crowd who lack even common sense. Don't waste your time responding to all these clowns. Like you I also like Canon and that's the only reason people like us wish Canon will give us the best camera in the market. The moment one criticizes Canon here, this crowd calls them Sony fanboy, paid by Sony, etc. The fanboy crowd is everywhere, I have come across lot of people who become fanboys of one or the other corporate and lose their common sense. If you go to NR, SAR, etc they have their fair share of fanboys. Another cult is the Apple fanboy crowd, man try saying anything which you don't like about apple products (actually don't try :D).

You are 100% Canon did dropped the ball once again and marketing was misleading but the majority here in CR can never ever understand that. Nobody cried for 8k camera, we have been asking Canon for a high quality 4k camera, I mean the 4k HQ type video quality and 4k60p. But Canon was more interested in creating a marketing hype with 8k and disappointed us on the 4k video. Even simple things like getting rid of the 29:59 time limit when there is no tax advantage anymore seems like an easy fix but not for Canon and fanboys will backup Canon no matter what.
I literally couldn’t care less about 8k.

Record times
Clog 2/3
4K24 and 4k60 without overheating.
120 with sound
10 bit in standard profiles

Good camera though.
 
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Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
2,150
1,494
Let’s be honest.

3. We do look at other manufacturers and we do feel like canon could make something a little more inline with what content creators want
Let’s be honest.

I do look at other manufacturers and I do feel like Canon R5 is the only FF camera on the market I want.

YMMV, of course.
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
1,238
1,312
I wish he'd asked why the 29'59" record limit is still in place!
If I'm not mistaken, it's due to another "intelligent" EU law, saying that whatever records longer than 29,59 must be declared a movie or video camera.
But please, please, don't ask me why...maybe a different taxation?
 
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Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
2,150
1,494
You are trying to preach to a fanboy crowd who lack even common sense. Don't waste your time responding to all these clowns. Like you I also like Canon and that's the only reason people like us wish Canon will give us the best camera in the market. The moment one criticizes Canon here, this crowd calls them Sony fanboy, paid by Sony, etc.
I criticize Canon here for quite a long time for marketing this camera as a "video" camera, but no one calls me Sony fanboy.

What am I doing wrong?
 
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Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
2,150
1,494
If I'm not mistaken, it's due to another "intelligent" EU law, saying that whatever records longer than 29,59 must be declared a movie or video camera.
But please, please, don't ask me why...maybe a different taxation?
Used to be. But last time I checked, the extra import duty on "video camera recorders" was just 1.6% of the declared value, and it was expected to be fully eliminated by now.
 

bbasiaga

Canon Shooter
Nov 15, 2011
436
479
USA
I know it's a made up quote and Henry Ford never actually said it, but: “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
I think in this case, to give 'us what we really want' Canon would have had to re-write the laws of physics! Or at least waited a few years for semiconductor technology to get even more heat efficient. High processing power application (8K/4K HQ, etc) in a ILC camera sized body with the industry leading weather sealing....something had to give. Its just sad people can't step back from the internet rhetoric and see this situation for what it really is.

As far as the low temp burns thing...i wonder if Canon's lawyers really latched on to that, or if its just a corporate spin - "we're protecting you!" - on the problem of internal overheating. I think it does explain why folks in the cooler climates are seeing longer record times though. The skin will cooler faster in open/moving air than the internals will, which means that the camera will think you're OK to hold on longer. I know it has an external temp sensor, which I assumed was to do a heat transfer calculation to determine heat up time to the high/stop temp limit. But maybe it really is there to protect you hands....

-Brian
 
Sep 11, 2020
2
0
That guy is such a joke. He seriously thinks that because he can use workarounds to extend the recording limits, that he's uncovering some huge conspiracy that Canon is crippling their cameras. I'll play the world's smallest violin when he bricks his R5 and Canon refuses to repair it.

Okay, maybe i am a bit bold here but i can count to three and still don´t understand why it is possible to deactivate thermal protection through setting a different date, and not through cooling?
Any Ideas on that?
 

12Broncos

EOS M6 Mark II
Jul 20, 2019
79
73
Is Nikon listening? As they prepare for the launch of the Z8/9 because I'm listening to the comments on here, and I like what I'm hearing. I want a camera, sure video would be nice on it, but not at the expense of being able to fry an egg on it after fifteen minutes. Kudos to Canon in being ambitious, but they should've given the camera a little more size. I'd rather have a bigger camera and it be a beast, than a nice, compact frying pan.
 
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peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
468
453
I, similar to Roger's comment in his blog, am pretty much over the whole overheating discussion.
I get that people want to extend recording times for 8K/30 and 4k/120. I suggest that waiting for Canon's firmware release with lower bitrates (probably compression/Cinema raw light) and externally recording wth no cards will increase record times for those desperately needing it. If that isn't good enough then there will be hardware hacks with drilling holes and peltier coolers etc for a specific use case - otherwise get another 8k video camera that does the job they want.
The main thing for me is short clips for 8k raw (30 fps frame grabs) or maybe some 4k/120 short clips but HD/120 would be enough without triggering overheating. It works to specifications and I am happy to live within them. Just waiting for H265 hardware acceleration to be available before upgrading my PC
For me, the biggest problem was that 4k60 "overheats" very fast - even when you are not recording. Just while setting up the camera or carrying it around the timer counts quickly down to zero before you even record. Thats the problem: its not important to record 4khq for an hour straight. But you cant even set the camera up and THAN record.
BUT: I found that recording externaly to an Atomos works perfectly fine even for hours of 4k60 on a long day :) This is an excellent solution for me. So I am more than happy. Especialy since the photos are excellent. It can even autofocus on stars (!) with an f2,8 lense. That AF is certainly very impressive and an excelent tool in the field :)
 

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
468
453
I wish canon would stop “anticipating” what we want and actually listen to what we want
I think they actualy do. I do not belive that the forum or even youtubers opinions are what realy shapes the professional workflow.

If you ask an actual profesional wedding photographer he wont tell you, that "this camera cant be used because the dynamic range is incredible low". They will talk about lenses, ergonomics, skintones, reliability and ease of use.

If you ask a film production company they wont tell you, that mirrorless small bodies are there first choice for filmproduction. They will stick to their Cinema-cameras because of the ergonomics, dynamic range, ports, accessories.

If you ask an actual professional sports photographer he wont tell you that 20 megapixel on his new sports camera is not enough. He will be happy with quick transfer rates and a reliable camera with an big viewfinder and fast AF.

If you ask a product- and general-photographer he will tell you that 45 megapixel is a great sweet spot betweeen noise an resolution.



I think the (often hateful and toxic) postings in forums are very often from people who are FAR away from actualy buying these kind of cameras. People get their opinions from youtube influencers who mostly dont even have the camera(!). Mostly these are paid commercials and they try to find a big topic. Most of these people dont actualy work and shoot every day with this camera.


I have the R5 since release and I used it (professionaly) nearly every single day since than for photo and video work.
I can tell you, its an excellent camera. Most things are perfect. What I diskile:
- Micro HDMI sucks.
- I miss a mode dial on the left shoulder, that power switch is a waste of space.
- Overheat before recording is a bit anoying, but can be fixed with an atomos.
- Viewfinder could be bigger.
- Micro HDMI sucks.
- Some functions disable other functions - if this happens you cant quickly overwrite the problematic function but you have to dive back to the menu and find the function and THAN go back - for example if you use silent shutter you cant activate anti-flicker. You have to first go back to the shutter and change it to mechanical and than go back to activate anti-flicker.
- USB-C Charging is not working while camera is on and wont work on most power outlets (weird, looks like it needs a very specific voltage?)
- Micro HDMI sucks
These are things that are not discussed in most discussions or youtube "reviews"(commercials). These are things that actualy matter in the everyday work.
Other than that its a pretty much perfect camera. Colors, AF, ergonomics are excelent and a joy to use.
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
6,224
3,630
67
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
I am working with the EOS R5 now since the 30th July. The camera is just amazing! For stills I am chocked with the performance of the sensor, it delivers such pleasant and detailed photos! For me it´s the best camera camera in the market!

For video, I must confess that the first use was a chock! I got overheating pretty soon in a hot day when I was shooting stills first and then video. The main problem is not the record times it´s that the camera is always loosing record time when in use, even if you are not recording. But I record in Atomos externally so the only big deal was in 4k120fps. After the firmware upgrade i am getting much better results and after that I didn´t had overheating anymore. Also the days are now colder in my country so tht may help either.... Last week I was filming vultures in a project and I was using 4k60fps recorded in atomos and 4k120fps internally in card. I filled the card and continued recording in atomos. I also made some photos. No overheating. So I guess camera did improve and if you use the atomos you will probably don´t have issues at all.

So far....I am in love with this camera!!!

If you want to check the vídeo, recorded with 4k100fps and 4k50fps in C-log, neutral, with just a bit grading. I used Canon Lut for the 4k100fps but for some reason the lut doesn´t work good with prores files that came from the atomos so I had to match them by hand. The image quality in video of this camera is outstanding!!!

Nice video. Where was it shot?
 

Go Wild

EOS RP
Dec 8, 2014
290
354
I think they actualy do. I do not belive that the forum or even youtubers opinions are what realy shapes the professional workflow.

If you ask an actual profesional wedding photographer he wont tell you, that "this camera cant be used because the dynamic range is incredible low". They will talk about lenses, ergonomics, skintones, reliability and ease of use.

If you ask a film production company they wont tell you, that mirrorless small bodies are there first choice for filmproduction. They will stick to their Cinema-cameras because of the ergonomics, dynamic range, ports, accessories.

If you ask an actual professional sports photographer he wont tell you that 20 megapixel on his new sports camera is not enough. He will be happy with quick transfer rates and a reliable camera with an big viewfinder and fast AF.

If you ask a product- and general-photographer he will tell you that 45 megapixel is a great sweet spot betweeen noise an resolution.



I think the (often hateful and toxic) postings in forums are very often from people who are FAR away from actualy buying these kind of cameras. People get their opinions from youtube influencers who mostly dont even have the camera(!). Mostly these are paid commercials and they try to find a big topic. Most of these people dont actualy work and shoot every day with this camera.


I have the R5 since release and I used it (professionaly) nearly every single day since than for photo and video work.
I can tell you, its an excellent camera. Most things are perfect. What I diskile:
- Micro HDMI sucks.
- I miss a mode dial on the left shoulder, that power switch is a waste of space.
- Overheat before recording is a bit anoying, but can be fixed with an atomos.
- Viewfinder could be bigger.
- Micro HDMI sucks.
- Some functions disable other functions - if this happens you cant quickly overwrite the problematic function but you have to dive back to the menu and find the function and THAN go back - for example if you use silent shutter you cant activate anti-flicker. You have to first go back to the shutter and change it to mechanical and than go back to activate anti-flicker.
- USB-C Charging is not working while camera is on and wont work on most power outlets (weird, looks like it needs a very specific voltage?)
- Micro HDMI sucks
These are things that are not discussed in most discussions or youtube "reviews"(commercials). These are things that actualy matter in the everyday work.
Other than that its a pretty much perfect camera. Colors, AF, ergonomics are excelent and a joy to use.

Totally agree with you. Micro HDMI sucks very VERY much! Its so fragile, it can break so easily i am always afraid. Also because of the signal of course. About viewfinder....for me no big deal I use Atomos all the time...but yeah...However is understandable. The only downside of the camera is the overheating issue and now is much better!

Camera is huge! Image quality in stills and video....I am loving it!
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
6,224
3,630
67
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
...If you ask an actual professional sports photographer he wont tell you that 20 megapixel on his new sports camera is not enough. He will be happy with quick transfer rates and a reliable camera with an big viewfinder and fast AF...
Not all sports photographers. I would have liked to have had about 30 mp to give me more margin for cropping. But, life is full of compromises.
 
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Jim Corbett

Man-eaters' Nightmare
Oct 11, 2019
65
135
The idea of a hybrid camera is stupid in the first place. It's like sitting on two chairs. Merging a Ferrari and Rolls Royce may sound great and cheaper in theory, but in real life it's going to fail and cost way more. The R5 is the proof: best photo camera currently on the market, and a terrible video one.
And now, instead of paying one price to get double, we have to pay double to get one. Let it be a lesson to everyone: cheap is expensive; expensive is cheap!