Interview: Canon addresses overheating concerns, workarounds and the Cripple Hammer

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,246
Let me get this straight, Canon introduces the R5 and R6 that offer 8K video capture but it overheats and shuts down so it can cool back down. The recent firmware does very little to remedy the situation and Canon continues to take heat over it. Some users are having success extending the record times by recording to an external drive. As a freelancer, I own two of the same bodies for continuity and serves as a backup. How difficult is it to swap an identical body out in the event that one overheats? If you’re going to capture at 8K, there are certain risks for shooting at technologies razor edge, yes?
Let me get this straight, Canon introduces the R5 and R6 that offer a time limited 8K video capture. if you are a freelancer that regularly shoots 8K (I would love to understand what camera shoots 8K and is in the R5 Price range at the same time) for an extended period of time, then R5 is not for you.
some users (as you put it) are having success extending the record times by recording to an external drive.
your statement is factually incorrect: ALL users that are recording to an external drive are having success extending the record times.
 
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SaP34US

EOS 90D
Aug 21, 2018
127
10
I think he's leaning into the suggestion that the EU rule was removed in 2019 and therefore there should be no 30 min limitation now, according to a few site8s. I've seen the suggestion that the rule was removed, but I haven't actually taken a look at import tariffs in the EU yet to see if it actually happened, or checked to see if other major importers outside the EU don't have an equivalent rule.9
When would Canon have started working on r&d and deciding weather or not have the time limit?
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,246
When would Canon have started working on r&d and deciding weather or not have the time limit?
Are you suggesting that 29:59 recoding time limit is hard coded or something? :) /s
its is certainly just a timer that could be removed via a firmware update.
 

privatebydesign

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
10,621
5,967
Let me get this straight, Canon introduces the R5 and R6 that offer 8K video capture but it overheats and shuts down so it can cool back down. The recent firmware does very little to remedy the situation and Canon continues to take heat over it. Some users are having success extending the record times by recording to an external drive. As a freelancer, I own two of the same bodies for continuity and serves as a backup. How difficult is it to swap an identical body out in the event that one overheats? If you’re going to capture at 8K, there are certain risks for shooting at technologies razor edge, yes?
No, it gets to max operating temperature and stops you using the highest quality video modes. AFAIK I have seen zero reliable reports of the camera ever "shutting down" it still works like a regular stills camera and still records video in all the regular modes just not the few highest data rate modes.

It might seem like a small difference, but tell that to a photojournalist or wedding shooter who just overheated his Sony, his camera is a brick, the R5 user next to him can still record video and photos. To me that is worth way more than anything else.

As for people needing backups in mission critical image delivery, I couldn't agree with you more, so many people have been bitching about 'pros only use dual cards' bullshit for so long, I have had way more lens and body failures than card issues.
 
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amorse

EOS R
Jan 26, 2017
823
1,114
www.instagram.com
When would Canon have started working on r&d and deciding weather or not have the time limit?
Personally, I have no idea when they would have set that requirement, but I would have thought it could be adjusted via firmware if they really wanted to.

Even with the EU rule gone, however, for all I know there could be other major importing nations/regions which have a similar requirement maintaining that disruption. Trade and tariff interpretation can be pretty complicated and lots of things can impact these kind of decisions. I deal with trade issues as part of my full time job, and while this is outside of my wheelhouse in the things I usually work on, I can certainly attest to the fact that the way a product is classified from one Harmonized System code (used in determining tariffs and tracking trade) to another can have significant impacts on the the final tariff required.
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,504
2,386
Nope. If you allow it to be disabled, then you will still get sued by an idiot with a tender pinkie who says you didn't make the issue clear enough for him.

Don't laugh. I've heard tell of urinal cakes labeled "do not eat." Urinal cakes ought to be the last item on Earth that need that warning label, yet our court system has led to them getting precisely that.
 
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Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
540
544
"We do not cripple our cameras"

*looks at my M6 Mark II which had 24p added in a firmware update*
That wasn't a cripple. It was just an assumption that no one in the anticipated user base would want to use an anachronistic frame rate that does not match any consumer display in the world. Obviously the assumption was wrong (at least in the opinion of the u-Tube trolls), so they added the option back and made the menu just a little more complex for the 99% of M^ users that have no use for 24P. 24P is a Hollywood fetish (largely because it keeps cinematographers employed managing pan and zoom rates), but it is actually a terrible frame rate from a viewer perspective. Fortunately, frame interpolating TV sets have made it go away for all practical purposes.
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,504
2,386
"We do not cripple our cameras"

*looks at my M6 Mark II which had 24p added in a firmware update*

That wasn't a crippling; that was a mistaken perception that no one in the target market would want to record at such a low frame rate. When they heard people demanding it, they gave it to them.

If it had been a crippling, they would not have uncrippled it, since the (alleged) motivation would dictate to never do so.
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,504
2,386
Dragon posted damn near my exact thoughts while I was typing mine out. (And he did it better, too.)
 
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fingerstein

EOS M6 Mark II
Sep 25, 2016
63
24
Being a written interview, I have doubts about real questions and real answers. I think they polished together the interview.
 

fingerstein

EOS M6 Mark II
Sep 25, 2016
63
24
They made a camera that easily outperforms the competition only to have the internet compare its 8K capabilities to the 4K capabilities of a similarly priced low-resolution video-specialized body from a competitor.
I think they should made a camera with 4K/60p with no compromises, no overheating. A reliable Canon camera. 8K... is just too hard to swallow even on the latest Apple computer. Nobody asked for 8K. People asked for a GH5, S1H, competitor in terms of size, video performance and or course price.
 
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nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
310
197
Calgary
Are you suggesting that 29:59 recoding time limit is hard coded or something? :) /s
its is certainly just a timer that could be removed via a firmware update.

At least we are now down to the smallest cripple hammer.

1599855970015.png
 

Fast351

EOS R6
Sep 12, 2014
47
62
Minnesota
www.fast351.com
I am curious why they even bother to use a timer. None of this "reset the timer" hackery would have made any difference if they just measured the internal temperature, used some realistic time/temp rise calculation, and showed time remaining based on that.

If the goal is not to burn up the electronics, that seems to be the norm in the electronics industry based on the number of PC CPUs and harddrives do exactly that.

If the goal is not to burn the user, then put in a temp sensor on the frame. A decent I2C temp sensor is literally pennies.

Why go through the whole exercise of cooldown clocks, etc? Just measure the internal temp and show remaining recording time based on a predictive heat table.

FWIW, I don't really care at all. The only time I use the video function is for recording my waterski runs, 8 minutes at a time. Let's just say that I have some work to do to sort out the AF and the IS.
 

Sibir Lupus

EOS M6 Mark II + EOS M200
Feb 4, 2015
163
123
38
ok you guys missed the fact that I praised these two cameras but had a few small griefs with the camera. I love canon and will always love canon. All of my cameras have been canon but that doesn’t negate the fact that canon could have made this a more useable video camera at the price point of ~$4K.The focus should have been put on the HQ 4K and the camera being stable in many conditions as most of their cameras have been,

If you feel that Canon should have made HQ 4K video more stable in a roughly $4,000 hybrid camera, then what are Sony's excuses for the A7S III overheating while recording 4K at 60 FPS in some scenarios? Mind you, that's a $4,000 videocentric mirrorless camera with only a 12MP sensor, and no 8K capability. If you want a Canon video camera that meets the needs you stated in prior posts in this thread, then look forward to the upcoming EOS Cinema C70 that was teased last week.
 
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zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,129
317
I think they actualy do. I do not belive that the forum or even youtubers opinions are what realy shapes the professional workflow.

If you ask an actual profesional wedding photographer he wont tell you, that "this camera cant be used because the dynamic range is incredible low". They will talk about lenses, ergonomics, skintones, reliability and ease of use.

If you ask a film production company they wont tell you, that mirrorless small bodies are there first choice for filmproduction. They will stick to their Cinema-cameras because of the ergonomics, dynamic range, ports, accessories.

If you ask an actual professional sports photographer he wont tell you that 20 megapixel on his new sports camera is not enough. He will be happy with quick transfer rates and a reliable camera with an big viewfinder and fast AF.

If you ask a product- and general-photographer he will tell you that 45 megapixel is a great sweet spot betweeen noise an resolution.



I think the (often hateful and toxic) postings in forums are very often from people who are FAR away from actualy buying these kind of cameras. People get their opinions from youtube influencers who mostly dont even have the camera(!). Mostly these are paid commercials and they try to find a big topic. Most of these people dont actualy work and shoot every day with this camera.


I have the R5 since release and I used it (professionaly) nearly every single day since than for photo and video work.
I can tell you, its an excellent camera. Most things are perfect. What I diskile:
- Micro HDMI sucks.
- I miss a mode dial on the left shoulder, that power switch is a waste of space.
- Overheat before recording is a bit anoying, but can be fixed with an atomos.
- Viewfinder could be bigger.
- Micro HDMI sucks.
- Some functions disable other functions - if this happens you cant quickly overwrite the problematic function but you have to dive back to the menu and find the function and THAN go back - for example if you use silent shutter you cant activate anti-flicker. You have to first go back to the shutter and change it to mechanical and than go back to activate anti-flicker.
- USB-C Charging is not working while camera is on and wont work on most power outlets (weird, looks like it needs a very specific voltage?)
- Micro HDMI sucks
These are things that are not discussed in most discussions or youtube "reviews"(commercials). These are things that actualy matter in the everyday work.
Other than that its a pretty much perfect camera. Colors, AF, ergonomics are excelent and a joy to use.
I'm guessing that Micro HDMI sucks :giggle:
 

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
498
477
It should work on anything that supports Power Delivery, so look for 'USB-PD' markings on the charger. There are a few reports out there that PD can partially power the R5 and R6 while running, but it will still use a bit of the battery.
My R5 still haven't shipped, so I haven't verified that myself.
Just tested it again. Looks like you are correct, thank you.
Though I found the Sony A7R IV to be less picky about this. Will check it with some other chargers that I may use for travel. Its quite nice to need only ONE charger for laptop, camera and phone while traveling :)
 

nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
310
197
Calgary
I am curious why they even bother to use a timer. None of this "reset the timer" hackery would have made any difference if they just measured the internal temperature, used some realistic time/temp rise calculation, and showed time remaining based on that.

If the goal is not to burn up the electronics, that seems to be the norm in the electronics industry based on the number of PC CPUs and harddrives do exactly that.

If the goal is not to burn the user, then put in a temp sensor on the frame. A decent I2C temp sensor is literally pennies.

Why go through the whole exercise of cooldown clocks, etc? Just measure the internal temp and show remaining recording time based on a predictive heat table.

FWIW, I don't really care at all. The only time I use the video function is for recording my waterski runs, 8 minutes at a time. Let's just say that I have some work to do to sort out the AF and the IS.

If the CPU is causing heat, then perhaps it's better to find some more efficient way to do some of the work. There's been so much misrepresentation in the forums in the attempt to bash Canon that it is difficult to know what the reality is. As I understand (based on what I have bothered to read), the timer is used to shut off the recording (red light), the temp sensors are used to give the go-ahead (green light). Then again, this is observation from observations (3rd hand knowledge) so it is likely that there is more complexity in the programming. Just what I understand.
 

Skux

EOS 90D
Feb 21, 2020
130
165
That wasn't a cripple. It was just an assumption that no one in the anticipated user base would want to use an anachronistic frame rate that does not match any consumer display in the world. Obviously the assumption was wrong (at least in the opinion of the u-Tube trolls), so they added the option back and made the menu just a little more complex for the 99% of M^ users that have no use for 24P. 24P is a Hollywood fetish (largely because it keeps cinematographers employed managing pan and zoom rates), but it is actually a terrible frame rate from a viewer perspective. Fortunately, frame interpolating TV sets have made it go away for all practical purposes.

The decision not to include a frame rate that has been a popular standard for a century because of concerns it would make menus "too complex" is simply ludicrous. Anyone who doesn't care is using automatic modes, and anyone who does can tell the difference and afford the half second it takes to change the option.

Also, frame interpolating "features" on TVs need to die a horrible death. I love high frame rates but if content was recorded at 24/30fps with the intention of it being viewed that way, it should be watched that way.
 
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