Interview: Canon addresses overheating concerns, workarounds and the Cripple Hammer

[SteveC]

I found his responses to the questions to be honest, and sensible. Too many people are focusing on the video, forgetting that unlike the new Sony III, this is not a video camera disguised as a still camera.

Disguised as a still camera with fewer megapixels than my Rebel.

 

[Viggo]

it's weird that Canon wrote that their magnesium body was a heat sink. It's the same material they always used for their higher end bodies.

From DPREVIEW:

"Canon starts off the notice laying out the steps it’s taken to ‘manage the potential for overheating’ in its EOS R5 and EOS R6 camera. Two bullet points in the notice read:

• Magnesium alloy was used in the body to dissipate heat away from internal components"

I guess they’re technically right as it is not a thermos, but it’s too poor to really do anything, and at the same time keep the user safe from low temp burns. But, it’s a real marketing hype to call the body a heat sink. I’m glad it isn’t though, if it was as hot as the back cover of my iMac for instance , it would be pretty useless. Much worse than 20 minute 8K

 

[Terry Danks]

Just another photographer here pretty sick of the whole issue and with no sympathy for those expecting (demanding?) Arri/Red video endurance from a hybrid camera. I never heard of EOSHD until this issue arose. Think the guy is a jerk and has made a total fool of himself! Take Canon to court over this? What a laugh! DO IT!

My only complaint about the R5 is that I'm still waiting for one to be delivered! I did chuckle at Jared Polin's video where he lauded it over those of us who can't get our hands on an R5 for love nor money. "I've got three. You've got none!" And then repeats himself to really rub it in!
I still "got none!"

 

[crazyrunner33]

That’s wrong. There have been large increases. Just go to the Lensrentals camera blog to see their tests.

The only temp that looked slightly concerning was the CFast card, hitting around 50c(only a slight concern for a burn if someone holds it in their hand for a minute(assuming the card doesn't cool down by the minute mark, which it will).

The body itself doesn't get that hot, even in direct sunlight as we've seen in the tests against the A7S III.

 

[bitcars]

In hind sight, assuming Canon is telling the truth, a smarter move is to implement some user control for the timer based thermal management. User can have options to turn off the timer or extend it, etc. Also the camera should warn about "low heat burns" instead of "overheating" and cutoff when the it isn't actually overheating.

1. User may be wearing glove/protections, or mounting the camera on a tripod or gimble. When people are safe from the low temp burns, they should be able to opt out the timer thermal management. The heat sensors alone should provide sufficient protection for the camera's internal components ---- this approach has been used in electronics for decades and is very straightforward.
2. The timer based thermo-cutoff has its merits, but should display a low burn warning instead of the overheat warning. This way users are better informed, and it shows off a user-oriented and sensible side in Canon's design, not the "cripple hammer" or "unfinished product" impression.

IMHO these changes should be purely software, they might just save Canon a lot of PR headaches.

 

[YuengLinger]

How hot does a camera get when it's in the center console of a car in the summer? Does anybody think it's a good idea to leave there camera in a car day after day in the summer? Don't the long-term effects of heat cause wear and tear to electronics and seals or gaskets? And maybe deformation of plastic?

 

[David - Sydney]

Don't get bit by a shark....or have a turtle snap off your...finger

I love turtles but very rare to see them in Sydney. Lady Elliot Island is a breeding sanctuary and their lagoon is full of them and half the year there are manta rays on the other side of the island. Can't wait to get back there in a few months.
I saw lots of Port Jackson sharks and woobegong sharks yesterday and got some closeups as they are pretty chill Sharks are cool.

 

[nchoh]

With all the reset hacks it is clear that the camera never read the internal temp.

Nope. The camera can be cooled fasted in a fridge add also shuts down faster in hotter climates.

 

[nchoh]

it's weird that Canon wrote that their magnesium body was a heat sink. It's the same material they always used for their higher end bodies.

From DPREVIEW:

"Canon starts off the notice laying out the steps it’s taken to ‘manage the potential for overheating’ in its EOS R5 and EOS R6 camera. Two bullet points in the notice read:

• Magnesium alloy was used in the body to dissipate heat away from internal components"

Fair question. Notice it doesn't say

• Magnesium alloy was used in the body to keep internal components cool"

Clever wording by Canon USA. manage the potential for overheating’ means what? To keep shooting video? Or to keep components (or manage) from overheating?

 

[David - Sydney]

It will be interesting to learn of your R5 video experience in an underwater housing.

I took some 4k120 video but haven't gone through it yet. Will be a few days until I get some time to work on it.
I was happy with the stills performance especially the continuous autofocus on bursts. I got a good keeper rate which can be difficult when you and generally the subject are moving. I am sure IBIS was working hard
It was picking the right subject most of the time automatically (on animal priority) which is interesting as there were fish, sharks, cuttlefish, moray eels plus other stuff which I am not sure were included in the deep learning algorithms.
Working out the best method to view the subject was tricky. The viewfinder covers the face sensor which means that the back LCD was never on and the viewfinder on 100%. I tended to use the back LCD for settings and optical viewfinder for shooting with my 5Div. The angle is tricky though as you (preferably) want to be slightly under your subject and my neck doesn't stretch too far! A 45 degree viewfinder attachment is an option but an expensive one. So I just switched used the LCD only. I shot wide angle so this is not as critical as it is for macro setups. I definitely loved the 45mp shots as I cropped pretty hard for some shots.
The water temperature was about 16C so quite chilly but the body has a partial vacuum so should be a reasonable insulator. That said, I had 50% battery life left and that was after 2 hours underwater. Similar to my 5Div in that respect. I think that if I had the viewfinder on 100% instead of the LCD (or both) then battery life would have suffered more. Had to get used to triggering the wake up function (half shutter press) as I was moving the camera into position so there was no delay.

 

[Richard CR]

The only temp that looked slightly concerning was the CFast card, hitting around 50c(only a slight concern for a burn if someone holds it in their hand for a minute(assuming the card doesn't cool down by the minute mark, which it will).

The body itself doesn't get that hot, even in direct sunlight as we've seen in the tests against the A7S III.

the body exterior doesn't get "that hot" but that's not the point. Roger from lensrentals mentioned that that the performance of the DC to DC convertors start to suffer at 60C. it could create scenarios where you could get thermal runaway if you kept at it for long, it certainly can degrade the performance of both the sensor and the camera running electronics at higher than recommended tempertures.

Also the temp's did go into the mid 40's which is pretty close to bad temptures for hand holding. there is the err on the side of caution here because the enternal case temperature is a "guess" that they would be making based upon internal and ambient tempertures and not an exact science.

 

[vangelismm]

Nope. The camera can be cooled fasted in a fridge add also shuts down faster in hotter climates.

Do we have any video about it?

 

[melgross]

it's weird that Canon wrote that their magnesium body was a heat sink. It's the same material they always used for their higher end bodies.

From DPREVIEW:

"Canon starts off the notice laying out the steps it’s taken to ‘manage the potential for overheating’ in its EOS R5 and EOS R6 camera. Two bullet points in the notice read:

• Magnesium alloy was used in the body to dissipate heat away from internal components"

Unfortunately, magnesium isn’t a great heat sink. Aluminum is much better.

 

[melgross]

The only temp that looked slightly concerning was the CFast card, hitting around 50c(only a slight concern for a burn if someone holds it in their hand for a minute(assuming the card doesn't cool down by the minute mark, which it will).

The body itself doesn't get that hot, even in direct sunlight as we've seen in the tests against the A7S III.

I do t know what you were looking at, but Lensrentals was very concerned at the internal heat, and that the body wasn’t effectively conducting it out. That’s why the outside of the body doesn’t get that hot.

 

[stevelee]

I wish he'd asked why the 29'59" record limit is still in place!

Isn't that because of tax laws somewhere, or have they repealed those taxes?

 

[stevelee]

Merging a Ferrari and Rolls Royce may sound great and cheaper in theory, but in real life it's going to fail and cost way more.

Wasn't that the Bentley, sort of?

 

[stevelee]

The decision not to include a frame rate that has been a popular standard for a century because of concerns it would make menus "too complex" is simply ludicrous. Anyone who doesn't care is using automatic modes, and anyone who does can tell the difference and afford the half second it takes to change the option.

Also, frame interpolating "features" on TVs need to die a horrible death. I love high frame rates but if content was recorded at 24/30fps with the intention of it being viewed that way, it should be watched that way.

TVs with 120 or 240 fps refresh rates are common these days, aren't they? They shouldn't have to interpolate frames for 24fps. That should be switchable in menus on the TV.

For legacy frame rates, I'd like to shoot black-and-white at 18fps.

 

[nchoh]

Do we have any video about it?

 

[Otara]

One confusion seems to be that these external temperatures are only decided by Canon, rather than also being about standards that Canon is expected to adhere to.

Surface Temperatures of Electronics Products: Appliances vs. Wearables | Electronics Cooling

If you are tasked with calculating surface/wear temperatures of ‘enclosures’ with active and passive components, use the most accurate method with full cognizance of the end application.

www.electronics-cooling.com

And Im sure they have zero interest in it being optional given the potential for lawsuits where people swear it was turned off and they got burned anyway.

 

[David - Sydney]

It will be interesting to learn of your R5 video experience in an underwater housing.

The 4k/120 video is gorgeous! Big files... especially when I didn't stop recording correctly on the last one and it filled up the card with a 60gb file!