Interview With Canon at CP+

[AvTvM]

dont care about 4k. Go buy a video cam.

All I see, is Canon Uunable to come up with a true competitive camera to Sony A6300 and Sony A7 II / A7R II. Unfortunately Sony has no competitive offering compared to ES M lenses. Nor to EF glass.

All I want is an EOS M with EOS firmware, EOS user interface, EF-M mount, Sony A6300 sensors and Sony A6300 AF at Sony A6300 price.

 

[Loswr]

All I want is an EOS M with EOS firmware, EOS user interface, EF-M mount, Sony A6300 sensors and Sony A6300 AF at Sony A6300 price.

I'm not sure how to tell you this, so I'll say it with a Wonkameme®.

 

[scyrene]

dont care about 4k. Go buy a video cam.

All I see, is Canon Uunable to come up with a true competitive camera to Sony A6300 and Sony A7 II / A7R II. Unfortunately Sony has no competitive offering compared to ES M lenses. Nor to EF glass.

All I want is an EOS M with EOS firmware, EOS user interface, EF-M mount, Sony A6300 sensors and Sony A6300 AF at Sony A6300 price.

Steady on, you forgot to use the M-word!

 

[rrcphoto]

the problem isn't DiGiC but the DSP's that are used to form the SoC DiGiC.

the SoC includes an ARM processor, DSP's,etc all needed for the camera to function.

In the past Canon's used DaVinci DSP's in DiGiC.

it's *obvious* that DiGiC as far as version 6 does not have native h.264 4k DSP's or the 1Dx Mark II would have had it. they went with MJPEG because it's easier to implement in firmware without having your processor burst into flames.

what's not readily apparent is if TI finally offers 4K capable devices. for Canon to switch their SoC infrastructure in DiGiC isn't a trivial task.

 

[3kramd5]

How does Zeiss get to be the "best lens makers" without actually making lenses? Zeiss-branded stills camera lenses are not even made by Zeiss, for the most part (a few exceptions ... Otus?). They are made by Cosina or Sony or who knows who.

Otus is manufactured by Cosina in Japan. Is there some implied claim that it would be somehow better were it manufactured by Zeiss in Germany?

Sometimes they are not even designed by Zeiss. For example, it apears the recent Zeiss Batis 85/1.8 optical design is patented by Tamron.

An optical formal isn't a lens. Zeiss designed the Batis 1.8/85. It is possible the optical formula was developed by Tamron (using a Sonnar design...), but that matters little. What matters is the whole package. Many people like the lens, others find the occasional swirl bokeh ugly. Like anything, it's up to the consumer to determine whether the price matches the performance.

As Zeiss does not even make many Zeiss-branded lenses, it's not surprising that there are quality control issues unworthy of the name, like the decentering affecting the pricey Sony Zeiss FE 35mm f/1.4. Then there are the modest performers, like the Sony Zeiss FE 24-70 f/4, which just diminish the Zeiss name.

They own the test specifications for mass production, but the main think Zeiss brings to those (Sony/Zeiss) lenses is the blue badge on the sony lens.

 

[Refurb7]

How does Zeiss get to be the "best lens makers" without actually making lenses? Zeiss-branded stills camera lenses are not even made by Zeiss, for the most part (a few exceptions ... Otus?). They are made by Cosina or Sony or who knows who.

Otus is manufactured by Cosina in Japan. Is there some implied claim that it would be somehow better were it manufactured by Zeiss in Germany?

I was replying to the comment about Zeiss being the "best lens makers". The point was that to be the "best lens makers" a company has to MAKE the lenses that are the best. Being the "maker" means doing the making. Without the crucial making part, they may get credit for other things but not for being the maker. Being the best maker isn't putting your name on a lens made by someone else.

 

[3kramd5]

Fair enough, I suppose (though I would ask: is Apple a cellphone maker? Most people consider them such despite their product being manufactured in Foxconn facilities). Zeiss does manufacture lenses, just not for the consumer still cam market. They're in house production focused on scientific, industrial, and cinema.

Whether they are the best is a silly question, and likely depends significantly on use case.

 

[Loswr]

Otus is manufactured by Cosina in Japan. Is there some implied claim that it would be somehow better were it manufactured by Zeiss in Germany?

Sure - it's the mystique of it, a guy named Hans peering through his horn-rimmed glasses as he painstakingly assembles the optics in a little factory in the Black Forest (okay, a big factory in Jena, but work with me here). Gotta be better!

 

[martti]

They could have interviewed his dog with just about as much information gained.
Mostly the reporter was expressing his own thoughts and the Sphinx nodded with a smile and said something self-evident like you have to speed up to be able to run with the others. We all know that there are lots and lots of Canon lenses out there. And there are adapters...

If I could buy a Nikon 810 with a Canon mount...

 

[AvTvM]

They could have interviewed his dog with just about as much information gained.
Mostly the reporter was expressing his own thoughts and the Sphinx nodded with a smile and said something self-evident like you have to speed up to be able to run with the others. We all know that there are lots and lots of Canon lenses out there. And there are adapters...
If I could buy a Nikon 810 with a Canon mount...

+1000

If I could buy a Sony A6300 with an EF-M mount ...
... and a Sony A7R II with fully functional EF-adapter made by Canon ...

 

[Loswr]

Do I need to repost the Wonkameme®? :

 

[AvTvM]

Do I need to repost the Wonkameme®? :

no. go wank yourself, Canon fanboy.

 

[Refurb7]

They could have interviewed his dog with just about as much information gained.
Mostly the reporter was expressing his own thoughts and the Sphinx nodded with a smile and said something self-evident like you have to speed up to be able to run with the others. We all know that there are lots and lots of Canon lenses out there. And there are adapters...
If I could buy a Nikon 810 with a Canon mount...

+1000

If I could buy a Sony A6300 with an EF-M mount ...
... and a Sony A7R II with fully functional EF-adapter made by Canon ...

Gosh, it seems that everyone wants something with a Canon mount. Canon must be doing something right! Too bad those other camera makers don't make those sweet EF / EF-M lenses. Of course you realize that if you get your wish, you'll have to suffer with the Sony EVF and their cameras' poor ergonomics and their lousy menu system and their lack of a joystick to pick your AF point and their general quirkiness, like the crummy LCD switching off every time it gets near your body and the EVF stuttering when shooting in continuous mode (while you're hoping it can track a moving subject), and you'll need to quadruple your stock of batteries. And if you ever need a repair you'll hope that some third party will handle it because Sony won't. Ah, the Canon Rumors forum ... where some people wish for Sony to please accept Canon lenses, even as they make fun of Canon "fanboys".

 

[AvTvM]

@Refurb7

As everybody on this forum knows, my first wish were Canon to finally launch a EOS-"M4" with a fully competitive sensor, a built-in EVF, an AF system capable of tracking moving subjects and decent battery charge. On top of all the virtues the existing EOS M system brings to the party. From EOS User Interface (not Powershot firmware!) to touchscreen. And of course EF-M mount and those great, small, inexpensive EF-M lenses plus EF-M/EF adapter.

That wish however, is constantly ridiculed by some notorious fanboys on this Canon forum.

Second "wish" ... or in market economy terms: "demand" (!) is for a Canon FF-sensored MILC system at least as capable as Sony's A7 II series plus FE lenses.

Again confiormed by this interview: Canon is unwilling and currently also *technologically* unable to satisfy that market demand, so competitors are frolicking as their offerings get more attention, love and most importantly sales.

A good number of my "photo enthusiast" friends have already moved from Canon and Nikon mirrorslappers to Sony or Fuji mirrorless. Many others - myself included - have not switched yet but are holding off buying anything more from Canon (or Nikon) - no 5D IV (yet another mirrorslapper), no EF-/L glass, and definitely no sub-par and "powershoddy" ... EOS M2, M3, M10.

 

[AvTvM]

@Refurb 7:

Canon Service?
Unfortunately no differentiating factor in most European countries - except a few large ones like Germany or UK: basically non-existent for consumers, no matter what brand. After first year warranty is expired, customers are on their own. For Canon there is only third-party service in my country. And repair prices even for minor issues or damage are typically higher than residual value of gear after 1 year of use. Personally i have thrown away 2 powershots with stuck lenses and one EF lens (non L) after a scratch on the front lens. Repair cost would have been 80% of new purchase ... so I threw it in the bin and did not purchase again.

CPS requirements are also very high in Europe, clearly targeted at pro's only and beyond most "enthusiasts" equipment. Total purchase price of my Canon gear amounts to well over 10k € and yet it does not qualify for even the lowest tier of CPS ... you need to have 2 "pro" bodies. But I only want and need one at a time. It is big and heavy enough. ;-)

 

[martti]

They could have interviewed his dog with just about as much information gained.
Mostly the reporter was expressing his own thoughts and the Sphinx nodded with a smile and said something self-evident like you have to speed up to be able to run with the others. We all know that there are lots and lots of Canon lenses out there. And there are adapters...
If I could buy a Nikon 810 with a Canon mount...

+1000

If I could buy a Sony A6300 with an EF-M mount ...
... and a Sony A7R II with fully functional EF-adapter made by Canon ...

Gosh, it seems that everyone wants something with a Canon mount. Canon must be doing something right! Too bad those other camera makers don't make those sweet EF / EF-M lenses. Of course you realize that if you get your wish, you'll have to suffer with the Sony EVF and their cameras' poor ergonomics and their lousy menu system and their lack of a joystick to pick your AF point and their general quirkiness, like the crummy LCD switching off every time it gets near your body and the EVF stuttering when shooting in continuous mode (while you're hoping it can track a moving subject), and you'll need to quadruple your stock of batteries. And if you ever need a repair you'll hope that some third party will handle it because Sony won't. Ah, the Canon Rumors forum ... where some people wish for Sony to please accept Canon lenses, even as they make fun of Canon "fanboys".

I am painfully aware of the Sony quirkiness as I have the A6000 that I tried to use with Metabones adapter and Canon lenses. Life is too short and there are already enough annoyances as it is.
Do you want to buy it? I make you a price.

Has somebody said that Canon is not doing things right?
Looking at the way it dominates the DSLR market you can see that it is nonsense.
So there is a bunch of people who feel that their human rights are threatened because Canon does not give them the toy that they say they'd need. Why might that be? Could it be that Canon, which is run like a business, keeps a keen eye on the bottom line and does not believe that it could make as much money with a mirrorless system –where there already is tough competition– as they can with their DSLRs.


I do not think our knowledge would help Canon very much in going on about their business.

 

[Loswr]

That wish however, is constantly ridiculed by some notorious fanboys on this Canon forum.

When you express ridiculous desires, expect ridicule.

Canon is unwilling and currently also *technologically* unable to satisfy that market demand, so competitors are frolicking as their offerings get more attention, love and most importantly sales.

Unwilling to satisfy a 'market demand' coming from a small minority segment, yes. Where's your evidence they are unable? Actual evidence, not fleeting thoughts passing through the transom of your mind.

Sony is getting attention, where is your evidence that that's costing Canon sales? Note: "Some people I know have switched from Canon," is not evidence.

On the plus side, at least you're consistent – you never let facts, data or business realities get in the way of your opinions.

 

[3kramd5]

Of course you realize that if you get your wish, you'll have to suffer ... their lousy menu system

I don't really get why people care so much about menus. How often do you really access them? I go through them to set up my camera, but afterwards I use them sparingly. On Canon I switch AF settings, I change the playback card back to CF when I mistakenly shut the memory card door with CF in a card reader and the camera switches to SD, and I format cards. On Sony I enable wireless transfers, sometimes enable exposure preview, and I format cards. The only substantial advantage Canon has is the custom menu. The only bug I've noticed with the Sony is that if I exit the menu after disabling airplane mode, when I enter the menu again it will be on a different screen (weird).

and their lack of a joystick to pick your AF point

Biggest deal on A7R2 for me, hands down.

and their general quirkiness, like the crummy LCD switching off every time it gets near your body

The LCD isn't crummy as far as I can tell, and that's not a quirk, it's functionality you can use or disable.

and the EVF stuttering when shooting in continuous mode

I've not noticed that.

(while you're hoping it can track a moving subject)

Depending on the subject, it's not bad at tracking - for shooting portraits, it's hands down better than any Canon I've owned. However, it's not an action camera, so if you're looking to track a diving peregrine, you're in for some disappointment.

, and you'll need to quadruple your stock of batteries.

I have twice as many 5D3 batteries as I do A7R2. The ratio, two per camera, is identical.

 

[AvTvM]

Canon is unwilling and currently also *technologically* unable to satisfy that market demand, so competitors are frolicking as their offerings get more attention, love and most importantly sales.

Unwilling to satisfy a 'market demand' coming from a small minority segment, yes. Where's your evidence they are unable? Actual evidence, not fleeting thoughts passing through the transom of your mind.
Sony is getting attention, where is your evidence that that's costing Canon sales? Note: "Some people I know have switched from Canon," is not evidence.
On the plus side, at least you're consistent – you never let facts, data or business realities get in the way of your opinions.

What I observe first hand around me is eyewitnessed evidence. Holds up in any court, as soon as I swear it is true. And ... it is true. Seen a good number of people switch from Canon/Nikon/mirrorslappers to Sony and Fuji mirrorless. Almost all of them would have preferred to buy a Canon or in case of Nikonians, a Nikon mirrorless system - APS-C or preferably FF.

How large exactly the pent-up demand for mirrorless systems is ... nobody knows for sure. But I am convinced, it is *significant*. People are sick and tired of both: rebel mirrorclickers [they have one at home, they take it out twice a year, rest of year its smartphone/tablet camera] and big brick mirorslappers [use it, but often it stays at home, because system is too big and heavy].

 

[Loswr]

What I observe first hand around me is eyewitnessed evidence. Holds up in any court, as soon as I swear it is true. And ... it is true. Seen a good number of people switch from Canon/Nikon/mirrorslappers to Sony and Fuji mirrorless.

Fresh, drinkable water coming out of your tap is not evidence that most of the water in the world is fresh, drinkable water. Your limited social circle is not representative of the broader market. Anecdotes ≠ data.

How large exactly the pent-up demand for mirrorless systems is ... nobody knows for sure. But I am convinced, it is *significant*. People are sick and tired of both: rebel mirrorclickers [they have one at home, they take it out twice a year, rest of year its smartphone/tablet camera] and big brick mirorslappers [use it, but often it stays at home, because system is too big and heavy].

Yes, we know you are convinced. You can cite 'pent up demand for mirrorless' until mirrorslapping knocks your teeth out, but your opinion is refuted by the actual data on what cameras people are choosing to buy, data which you seem unable to accept.