thetechhimself said:
True, but the refresh rate of the output display isn't the issues anymore. If the actual output lags behind the input, all the frames-per-second in the world isn't going to help you catch up to reality.
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Interview With Canon at CP+
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
- Start date
True, but the refresh rate of the output display isn't the issues anymore. If the actual output lags behind the input, all the frames-per-second in the world isn't going to help you catch up to reality.
Woody said:
From a technical standpoint, I agree. I also think his response is disingenuous in that it ignores the big 18% grey thing in the room. If the ILC market favored MILCs, those technical barriers would be solved or ignored. However, dSLRs outsell MILCs by 3:1, and as the dSLR market leader, Canon has little incentive to even push hard on mirrorless, let alone switch over.
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neuroanatomist said:
Exactly. This seems to be typical Canon business practice: do what is necessary to maintain position and profit, and don't waste a single ¥ bringing a feature to market that won't increase profit. I'm not criticizing, this is outstanding business practice, so long as they're doing the background research to maintain this into the future. So far they have, and I have no reason to believe that will change.
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I don't think we can reach that conclusion with what's publicly known, but it's likely that they believed they were getting out ahead of an impending trend. They were, but they're too far ahead: it'll be a few more years yet until mirrorless takes over. (I've given up predicting when, but "some day" mirrorless will take over)rrcphoto said:
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Many fail to acknowledge the basic fact that to get high resolution pictures on high MP sensors, you need "Big" glass! For the Canon haters, explain the Ziess Otus line. Canon's best new lenses (35mm f/1.4II, 11-24mm) are BIGGER! So what is the point of the size and weight advantages of mirrorless over SLR when looking to the future of camera development? Yes, they will be great for that compact middle ground between smartphone and SLR. Yet they will never resolve like a SLR can without the weight of a huge lens. It is an "unbalanced" presumption!
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Cali Capture said:
But there are other theoretical advantages to mirrorless. SLRs have always been hugely complicated. Mirrorless gets rid of a expensive mirror that needs to be raised/lowered 5-15 times a second, gets rid of an expensive prism, gets rid of a metering sensor, gets rid of an AF module. It allows for far more data to be fed to a CPU for tracking, metering, etc. AF and EVFs aren't quite there right now for me, but they're getting close.
The size/weight thing can be solved by industrial design--it's trivial to make a product *larger* to increase ergonomics and that extra space can be crammed with (heavy) batteries. Just because Sony is trying to differentiate with their tiny cameras doesn't mean canon will do the same with a pro, DLSR-competitor mirrorless.
Don't get me wrong, I'll be first in line for a 5D4... but I also expect it to be the last SLR I ever own (and I do not expect it to be my last canon, FWIW)
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davidhfe said:
The point was that people claim a size/weight advantage for mirrorless, and that's true as far as the camera body goes. But once you mount a lens – a rather important step for taking pictures – in many (but not all) cases that advantage disappears.
I do expect that if Canon ever goes the FF MILC route, they'll have lines that are dSLR-sized/shaped.
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I guess Canon failed to notice that Fuji has optical viewfinders on 2 of it's 3 top level cameras. So, Canon can continue to wait for for perfection while the mirroless market grows and grows
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Pretty normal that their compact camera market has been eroded by smraphones, it's largery Canon's own fault.
I was following the Mobile World Congress news, and following announcement form smarphones...
...what I saw was......4k.....autobracketing+audocombine HDR.......240FPS video......Image stabilisation.....fast charging.......video that can run as long as you want instead of only 30 minutes
What the hell is Canon thinking releasing 720P 30FPS compacts and Rebels with underperforming specs. Of course Canon is losing marketshare, they are acting like a dinosaur unwilling to upgrade anything in protection of their highest end cameras.
I was reasonably happy with the specs of the 80D when they announced it, but after I watched Mobile World Congress, with literally every smarphone maker putting 4k video in their phones, I don't know what Canon is thinking. This camera is already outdated before launch. When your $1200 DSLR can't keep up with smarphones, you should start to ask yourself some very tough questions.
Your company won't be kept alive by a few old wedding photographers and a few sports shooters buying 1DX.
You lose the compact market to smarphones, .. smartphones are starting to incorporate image stabilisation and 4k video...if you lose the rebel market to smartphones too....you have a major problem.
I was following the Mobile World Congress news, and following announcement form smarphones...
...what I saw was......4k.....autobracketing+audocombine HDR.......240FPS video......Image stabilisation.....fast charging.......video that can run as long as you want instead of only 30 minutes
What the hell is Canon thinking releasing 720P 30FPS compacts and Rebels with underperforming specs. Of course Canon is losing marketshare, they are acting like a dinosaur unwilling to upgrade anything in protection of their highest end cameras.
I was reasonably happy with the specs of the 80D when they announced it, but after I watched Mobile World Congress, with literally every smarphone maker putting 4k video in their phones, I don't know what Canon is thinking. This camera is already outdated before launch. When your $1200 DSLR can't keep up with smarphones, you should start to ask yourself some very tough questions.
Your company won't be kept alive by a few old wedding photographers and a few sports shooters buying 1DX.
You lose the compact market to smarphones, .. smartphones are starting to incorporate image stabilisation and 4k video...if you lose the rebel market to smartphones too....you have a major problem.
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Nininini said:
What you failed to see was.....tiny little sensors.....crappy codecs.....poor image quality.....poor sound quality.
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neuroanatomist said:
Sensor being larger should be a GIVEN...and smartphone sensor performance is not standing still...there are now smarphones with 1 inch sensors...there are smartphones with IS...there are smarphones with very good ISO performance.
If canon ever loses the APS-C market to smarphones, they can close their doors. They already lost the compact market, completely.
Micro 4/3 already has major issues differentiating itself from 1 inch sensors with good performance.
A few years ago people laughed at the idea that phones would compete with dedicated point and shoot. But a few years later the point and shoot market is dead.
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Keep in mind George that Canon is the world leader (by far) in market share of DSLR cameras and even further ahead in terms of market share, with their lenses. Premium brands (with premium prices) are finding themselves struggling to make revenue in the current tough economic environment coupled with a changing consumer base due to technological advancements in cheaper photo options (i.e. smartphones, etc.). Both Leica and Zeiss glass/optics are beginning to be seen in more consumer products - to broaden their revenue base and get their brand name out there: think Zeiss Touit lenses they have developed for M4/3 platforms and for some of the Sony FF models. Canon, being the 800lb gorilla, has not traditionally partnered with anyone on their camera stuff. (At least their DSLRs and EF-S & EF lenses.) Why would they?
We tend to forget that Canon, because of their various businesses, create products that enable a user to go from the field/studio all the way to the wall/gallery/museum/customer. And pride themselves on this fact. They market this beginning to end product lineup as Imaging Solutions. In fact, from a big-picture standpoint, I bet that is exactly how they see themselves, and when looking at new product development (with consumer input) want to make sure that they introduce products that can make use of most of their entire business offerings.
My two cents.
We tend to forget that Canon, because of their various businesses, create products that enable a user to go from the field/studio all the way to the wall/gallery/museum/customer. And pride themselves on this fact. They market this beginning to end product lineup as Imaging Solutions. In fact, from a big-picture standpoint, I bet that is exactly how they see themselves, and when looking at new product development (with consumer input) want to make sure that they introduce products that can make use of most of their entire business offerings.
My two cents.
George D. said:
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The interview is basically an executive rationalizing why they have not made a high end mirrorless, when the truth is that they have not because they don't have the technology to compete with other MILCs. Putting out an enthusiast MILC would make them look bad when there would be much better products from the competition. So instead they come up with all this BS about people not wanting it, technology isn't ready for prime time bla bla bla.
It is just a bunch of spin and excuses to cover up their deficiencies.
It is just a bunch of spin and excuses to cover up their deficiencies.
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Nininini said:
That may be so. It doesn't logically follow that anybody quibbling the claim that phones will kill off DSLRs is wrong too. There are physical limitations on phone cameras. Sure, new technologies may get around some of those, but maybe not, and those technologies will be available to dedicated camera manufacturers too.
Sensor size is limited in large part by a desire not to have a bulky camera module in the phone. I've seen people criticise the larger iPhone for having a camera that's not flush with the back surface, even though it only juts out by a millimetre or two. Imagine how much bigger the optics need to be for a much larger sensor.
And as people have said here and elsewhere, just because a phone has a feature (e.g. 4K) doesn't mean that it's better than a dedicated camera that lacks that feature. Image quality still counts for some! And some features are easier to implement on smaller sensors - I believe overheating is less of a problem for them. So maybe get some perspective?
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Tugela said:
They can't, or they don't at this point see the supportive market needed to invest the money it would take? Both result in no camera but one is from a position of strength, the other weakness, you don't have the slightest idea which is true in this case. Personally I would be very cautious stating unequivocally 'Canon can't', they have too much R&D history to make such broad statements.
What we do know is that Canon are sitting on a motherload of patents and have the ability to roll them out when they see the ability to recoup the cost or they fear lose too much market share. The 1DX MkII rolling out DCI 60fps 4k for 30mins compared to the D5's UHD 30fps for 3mins is a prime example.........
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