Is the new Canon full frame mirrorless called the EOS R?

[Frederik_Bo]

I think it's fair to assume everything in Canon's cameras is subject to a cost-benefit analysis (and every other manufacturer too!). A great deal of the arguing on these forums can be boiled down to - some people think that, however odd a decision may seem to us, the company has looked into it and decided that including or exclusing a feature was (or wasn't) worth the cost for the benefit - while others (I'm not talking about you incidentally, this is a general point; the people tending to throw around terms like 'fanboy') think it's a big conspiracy, and Canon are somehow cynical or mean or even stupid.

Fundamentally, we all have slightly different needs and desires, and no device can satisfy them all.

I could not agree more Companies do make mistakes though. So I think there is room for discussion. After all, the camera market is not static. Big companies that was nonce household names, have been relagated to small time players, gone bankrupt or have been taken over by the competition. One could argue, that Canon and Nikon has been doing something wrong for years, given that Sony has mannaged to gain a foodhold in the Pro Photography market.

 

[rrcphoto]

Canon’s “point” with the 5D4 was twofold: 1) we don’t want to include 4K video functionality that would cannibalize our other products 2) Even if we did, we don’t think 4K sells cameras.

you have absolutely no clue on this. it's just as likely as they were not able to implement 4k h.264 on DIGIC 6 which was the DIGIC available to them, that MJPEG was the only way around that.

2) is correct, Canon didn't NEED 4K to sell cameras the last 4 years where have you been?

 

[justaCanonuser]

Nah, I won’t- they lost their way, their momentum and their leadership with regards to DSLR video.

Canon’s risk averse culture prevented them from leading the way with FF video in DSLRs and MILC and now they are playing catch up in that regard.

Now they will risk cannibalizing their DSLRs to get the MILC money and one hopes they finally see the value of FF 4K in a stills hybrid body to meet the specs of competitors.

Just because you don’t like the truth, doesn’t make it go away.

But ... is your truth true? Not sure in these times... Well, Sony cannibalized their fixed mirror cameras/ E mount with their ML products, didn't they? And obviously, they survived that.

In fact, I like the idea of having an "R" camera line, so people could say: "eRrrrrr ... ist this rRreally a Canon?"

Seriously, I'd love to have a ML camera that doesn't feed spec-fetishists but just is a good tool for taking images and shooting video.

Looking back in Canon's history, they performed always in a strange mix between periods of technological leadership and periods of stubborn conservatism. Same with Nikon, even more, in fact. We shouldn't forget here that Canon e.g. advanced CMOS sensor technology when nearly every other manufacturer used CCD sensors, because CMOS technology was regarded as too noisy.

 

[amorse]

Well I have been on professional productions that used a 5d mark II back when it was the hot video DSLR. 2 weeks ago I was on 2 music videos, produced by universal music, and we shot those on Panasonic GH 5 cameras. I don’t think everything is as black and white as you make it out to be.

Didn't Mad Max:Fury Road use 5D II's in their filming? I think they used them as a relatively cheap camera capable of capturing some of the action scenes where the camera could be destroyed.

 

[rrcphoto]

they will risk cannibalizing their DSLRs to get the MILC money

they started to do that WAY before the full frame mirrorless. The EF-M has been eating into their Rebel sales quite a bit. however it's certainly not proven that Canon cares to protect the DSLR sales in anyway, I think they are just as happy to sell you any camera. They are quite proud for instance, of the M50 acceptance in the marketplace.

 

[memoriaphoto]

Of course you will be able to run EF lenses on it...

2 card slots...eye AF, IBIS, DP, and high MP EVF!!

This...

 

[maxfactor9933]

they just need to ditch the mirror and leave the camera body as it is.
maybe some build in ND filters or polarise filters instead of mirror mechanism.

just look at the sony lenses. they have adaptor literally welded to every single lens. I rather to have only one adaptor welded to my body. if you think properly it will be lighter and smaller.

 

[Frederik_Bo]

Bracketing was a standard feature since film photoghraphy for cameras that were able to take burst shots, where it was not used for HDR landscapes.

Sorry if I was not clear. I did not mean to say that bracketing is only for HDR landscape photography. I was trying to say that it is a function, which is especially useful when doing landscape photography and that it is a camera function which most photographers properly only use on a fraction of there photos.

My point was that, it would not make much sens for the people who never or very seldom use bracketing, to complaint about the inclusion of this feature in a camera. The same as I dont think it makes much sens for people to complaint about the inclusion of advanced video features, because it is not a feature that is used all the time, by everybody.

Prehaps I could have used a better feature as a analogy, but bracketing was the one that sprang to minde.

 

[Frederik_Bo]

Didn't Mad Max:Fury Road use 5D II's in their filming? I think they used them as a relatively cheap camera capable of capturing some of the action scenes where the camera could be destroyed.

Sounds right

 

[snappy604]

Don't worry, unlike some around here I have the negative pole tied behind my back. There won't be any jumping... unlike those who threaten jumping around here all the time.

its just as easy to ignore those types of comments

 

[snappy604]

Sounds right

egads.. I cringe to think 5d MkIIs are cheap enough to destroy.

 

[Sibir Lupus]

People have been assuming it will be an R-to-EF adapter. Maybe these early models have option of 2 adapters that fit to the body? So on the face of it, the camera rolls out with an EF mount, which is basically a mount that protrudes the required flange distance for EF lenses to work. But there are a set of internal connections that enable the entire mount to be removed and an R mount inserted as and when the R lenses become available?
Maybe this will be a factory retro-fit because of the weather-sealing required.
Once the R lenses come out the bodies will be available in R or EF.

You bring up a good possibility for the mount. Another idea I've had is similar but the the EF mount would be more of a drop-in adapter with glass to reduce the flange distance down to a mirrorless camera flange distance (16mm, 18mm, etc). The mount can then be changed out by the user to another mount for new native FF mirrorless lenses (rumored RF lenses) and/or a possible PL cinema lenses mount.

 

[psolberg]

ha ha ha, So, like the rumors had suggested, canon *might* officially have to support two mirrorless mounts with lenses (and whatever EF refreshes it has to get out of the way), or ditch EF-M

Well, if so, they have their work cut out for them while Nikon/Sony focus only on one mirrorless mount.

Oh I can't wait to see if this pans out to be true. But it makes perfect sense. Canon's EF mount would produce mirrorless bodies with a snout and it only seemed inevitable for them to go to a new mount while everybody else was doing the same. There is not going to be a better time to play catchup to SLR lens lineups than when Sony/Nikon are doing the same.

exciting times.

 

[Mikehit]

Nah, I won’t- they lost their way,

Considering the commercial success of Canon products I would say the general public disagree with you.

 

[Respinder]

Oh god - I hope these rumors are not true. To me, if the "new mount" doesn't somehow support EF, this is going to be a disastrous decision. If Canon wants to be serious about a brand new mount, then they would need to come in with bodies that are truly a mirrorless-interpretation of current DSLR bodies. This is exactly what I appreciated about the Nikon Z - to me its got the best body design I've ever seen for mirrorless. My assumption as some had suggested was that Canon would stick to a more traditional DSLR body or a "slim DSLR" body, but a body more akin to the EOS-M isn't going to be doing any favors. This will just end up being another EOS-M series.

 

[scyrene]

I could not agree more Companies do make mistakes though. So I think there is room for discussion. After all, the camera market is not static. Big companies that was nonce household names, have been relagated to small time players, gone bankrupt or have been taken over by the competition. One could argue, that Canon and Nikon has been doing something wrong for years, given that Sony has mannaged to gain a foodhold in the Pro Photography market.

Companies make mistakes of course, but some of the regulars on these forums have been listening for years to people popping up and saying Canon are wrong, and going the way of Nokia etc - but they have maintained or even improved their position (sales, revenue, etc). As for letting Sony in - there's no robust evidence that Sony has taken market share from Canon as opposed to other manufacturers. Of course one could argue that without Sony, Canon might have an even bigger share - but given they've continued to be the biggest camera seller thoughout the Sony era, I think they evidence such as it is does not favour that interpretation. Nikon - harder to say, and I have no insight into their position.

 

[melgross]

Offhand (so that I don’t have to do it) does anyone have the specs for the diameter of Nikon’s new mount and Canon”s EOS mount, as well as the respective flange distances?

I’m now curious as what physical advantages Nikon’s Mount may offer, if any, other than a thinner body, which doesn’t mean much to me.

 

[amorse]

egads.. I cringe to think 5d MkIIs are cheap enough to destroy.

To be fair, the film was released in 2014, so they must have been filming in 2012/2013 and by that time 5Dii would be a generation behind. Compared to traditional video cameras used for feature films, 5Dii's would be a bargain! What I find most interesting is 5DII's had video specs that were up to the task - Canon is often criticized for video capabilities, but here the cameras are being used for a specialty need in a feature film and I don't hear anyone complaining about the video quality in Mad Max.

 

[amorse]

Offhand (so that I don’t have to do it) does anyone have the specs for the diameter of Nikon’s new mount and Canon”s EOS mount, as well as the respective flange distances?

I’m now curious as what physical advantages Nikon’s Mount may offer, if any, other than a thinner body, which doesn’t mean much to me.

Pretty sure it's the following (I've included EF-M since that could set precedent for what Canon selects as their flange distance for a new mount):
EF diameter - 54mm; flange - 44mm
Z diameter - 55mm; flange - 16mm
EF-M diameter - 47mm; flange - 18mm

 

[melgross]

Admit it- you’re just pissed off because people are talking about video instead of photos. Like it or not, stills cameras have/are becoming hybrid cameras for both. Many content creators use them that way.

Just because YOU do not, just means the market is moving on from your very narrow definition of it.

Canon was the one who broke that ground in the first place with the 5DII. Then they lost their way because they wanted to sell high end Cinema EOS cameras. Nothing wrong with that. Except Sony then ate into their cinema camera line with better specs at better prices.

If Canon wants to regain that market, they better start with video on their stills cameras, because that’s where beginning filmmakers start.

I think it’s simplistic to just think that Canon slacked on video for its still cameras because it wanted to sell higher priced video cameras.

There’s no question that Canon does want to sell higher priced video product. But Canon is also the worlds leading lens maker for professional and commercial video. I asked them a number of years ago why they wouldn’t make somewhat higher end professional video cameras when buying their top model, at the time. They told me that they didn’t want to alienate their commercial video camera manufacturer customers.

That was some time ago. The industry has changed with RED, and others, so now they do.

What some people here aren’t giving voice to is that professionals would almost always prefer equipment designed specifically for a function, rather than some device that isn’t ideal for anything. Video will always be a clumsy add-on for a still camera, no matter how good it is.

Remember that Canon has a top end still/video model, based on the 1D series, and it’s never sold well. That could be an indication to them, that despite the hype by some, serious video on a quality still camera, because doing it right costs more, isn’t something that enough people want.