It looks like 2021 will be the last year for the EOS M lineup [CR2]

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,346
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I am aware of the flange distance limitations.
What I would like is the extra data pins and the higher data speeds of the RF mount.
You are correct about the mounts being the same size.
It looks like Canon and Nikon could have had IBIS this whole time but chose not to.
I would be happy with the same mount and IBIS.
If you are aware of the flange distance limitations you understand why you can’t have a DSLR with an RF mount, extra pins or not.

Canon definitely made a conscious decision not to put IBIS into their DSLR’s. They stated they believed lens based IS was more effective, especially for long lenses, and the fact that the optical view is not stabilized with IBIS when it is with lens based IS. It appears they are consistent because even though they now make IBIS they combine that with lens based IS.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
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It was not meant like that. But if you go to a different system, it becomes more expensive. This is exactly the money that the Canon "saves"
The M system was never about those who change systems to "move up", either. It's about regular folks who want a small, light, affordable camera and a lens or three to use for the next few years until it wears out or breaks and then they'll get another camera with a couple of lenses.

Or until they take another once every five years or so international vacation/holiday. I think the main reason the ESO M system is under pressure right now is due to the lack of folks going on once-in-a-lifetime trips in 2020 and 2021. That's when the non-gearheads think about getting a new camera.
 
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EOS 4 Life

EOS 90D
Sep 20, 2020
178
110
If you are aware of the flange distance limitations you understand why you can’t have a DSLR with an RF mount, extra pins or not.

Canon definitely made a conscious decision not to put IBIS into their DSLR’s. They stated they believed lens based IS was more effective, especially for long lenses, and the fact that the optical view is not stabilized with IBIS when it is with lens based IS. It appears they are consistent because even though they now make IBIS they combine that with lens based IS.
I wanted a new mount like the RF mount but I would gladly take IBIS with the existing EF mount.
Olympus proved that OIS + IBIS + EIS was the best.
Panasonic and now Canon followed suit.
 

Michael Clark

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If they could somehow come up with a way to make existing M lenses compatible with a future RF crop body all of the M users would have an option to upgrade without losing there portable lenses and possibly changing brands. I know the M mount is 2mm less depth then RF but would it actually be impossible to make an adapter? I understand that this adapter would have to go 2mm inside the RF mount but maybe there is another way? Even if this adapter only maintained compatibility with RF crop sensor bodys that would be ok.
The EOS M system has never been intended for those who would even think of wanting an option to upgrade. That's never been who the EOS M system was aimed at by Canon.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I also think that the M series is a quite perfect system for a lightweight system not only for travel, also for quite a lot of semi pro and even pro photography as long it is not for very big prints. I will not go back to heavy pro equipment which I left after the M50 came out, and yes, M6 Mark II an M50 combined are a superb combination, M50 for my EF tele zooms and M6 Mark II for the superb 11-22 , 22 and 32 wide lenses.

Pro bodies are wasted if you shoot not professional to make money, they are superb, sure, no weather problem, no problem in extreme environments, but all "normal" hobbyist and lot's of semi pro do not need that guarantee that the camera can also fall into mud, from a camper roof because that would mean problems.

I am happy with the EOS-M lineup after many years of DSRL Canon pro bodies and semipro use.
What do you do with the M6 Mark II when you need both an eye-level VF and to control off-camera flash at the same time?
 

Michael Clark

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I rarely use tripods with 70-200s/100-400s or even with something like a 300 f/2.8. I do mount a BR strap to the lens foot or L-plate on the camera body because I'm moving from one location to another plus it's less fatiguing to have it hanging from a shoulder strap than holding it all the time. It's that initial motion to bring the camera/lens combo up from the right side to the front for shooting that requires torque.

Current Ms are better than the original, which was tiny and had a minimal grip. I played with it using a 2x and a 100-400 to take a moon shot, but that was pretty much it for larger lenses. The Ms are not as responsive and the rebel interface is different from the 7D/FF interface that I'm used to. I only use the M5 when I can't bring a FF body or when weight/size is the overriding criterion. I use the native lenses for it most of the time; the only times I regularly used the adapter was when I was using it for video and using the FF for stills.
That's one reason why I hang my cameras with longer lenses mounted on them on the left side of my body. I reach down and grab the lens barrel with my left hand and bring the camera to my eye about the same time my right hand reaches the camera's controls.
 
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SnowMiku

I'm New Here
Oct 4, 2020
20
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The EOS M system has never been intended for those who would even think of wanting an option to upgrade. That's never been who the EOS M system was aimed at by Canon.
That's fair enough.

I must be in the minority with my 700D, I started out with the 18-55mm and the 55-250mm EF-S and now I've got a range of EF lenses, I actively use both EF-S and EF and I'm happy that the Crop DSLRs have the flexibility to use both.
 

Michael Clark

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I may have not been clear enough. What I wrote perfectly agrees with the rumor : the fact is there should be no RF-S in the future, but probably a smaller RF-M mount and distinct system... no need for compatibility with bigger standard RF mount.
So RF mount and R APS-C cameras will just benefit of FF lenses designed for both FF and APS-C. On the other hand, there can be a distinct dedicated RF-M system with RF specs instead of the old EF ones for connections and electronic design.

Uhmmm... OK. So what, exactly, is the difference between your proposed "RF-M" mount and the current "EF-M" mount?
 

hachu21

EOS 90D
Feb 11, 2014
112
32
The 2 additionnal contacts for higher bandwith communication between lens and body. Wich is, according to canon, necessary for IS working together with ibis. And surely more specs under the hood.
 
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Pierre Lagarde

Canon, Nikon and So on ...
Aug 4, 2020
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Uhmmm... OK. So what, exactly, is the difference between your proposed "RF-M" mount and the current "EF-M" mount?
I've no exhaustive list of differences, of course, but anyone can guess easily the electronic connection protocol has evolved between EF and RF. (just count the number of pins).
Also, RF mount have 12 pins vs only 9 on EF-M (which is already more than the basic EF mount count).
RF is the last and more enhanced Canon's mount, and it's simply a guess that EF-M could benefit of some of the enhancements of RF mount.

Anyway, I was just giving a hypothesis, and I already agreed that thinking Canon would just keep EF-M mount as it is looks like a valid one too.

Meanwhile, above hachu21 comment gives some more clues... 2 minutes ago
 

canonnews

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Dec 27, 2017
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I may have not been clear enough. What I wrote perfectly agrees with the rumor : the fact is there should be no RF-S in the future, but probably a smaller RF-M mount and distinct system... no need for compatibility with bigger standard RF mount.
So RF mount and R APS-C cameras will just benefit of FF lenses designed for both FF and APS-C. On the other hand, there can be a distinct dedicated RF-M system with RF specs instead of the old EF ones for connections and electronic design.
The only thing that would make sense about this, is that Canon brings the RF protocol to EF-M and makes the bodies dual protocol

but essentially it'd be the same mount.

the pins I believe were not data related, but more functional - ie: the control ring on RF lenses.

but creating a entirely distinct ANOTHER mount? no that would not be wise.
 
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canonnews

EOS R
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Dec 27, 2017
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The 2 additionnal contacts for higher bandwith communication between lens and body. Wich is, according to canon, necessary for IS working together with ibis. And surely more specs under the hood.
actually, I read somewhere they are for the control ring.
it's just an asynchronously controlled bus not a parallel bus, but still a serial bus.
 

Pierre Lagarde

Canon, Nikon and So on ...
Aug 4, 2020
38
42
France
www.deviantart.com
The only thing that would make sense about this, is that Canon brings the RF protocol to EF-M and makes the bodies dual protocol.

but essentially it'd be the same mount.

the pins I believe were not data related, but more functional - ie: the control ring on RF lenses.
I bet you mean "data structure" more than just data. For new hardware functionalities/specs (i.e. IBIS/IS combination or control ring) you always need to qualify new data content, of course.
Anyway, protocol has changed between EF and RF, and it's hard to say exactly how without the brand's design/data sheets.
We also don't know exactly what EF-M is capable of in terms of possible enhancements.
What's sure is that no camera with EF mount (may it be EF-M or "regular" EF) had ever to manage IBIS/IS combination or additional control rings and these are certainly new features that need new technical add-ons that may be hardware or software.
 

hachu21

EOS 90D
Feb 11, 2014
112
32
From Canon eos R system withepaper:
"Enhanced Electronic Communication between Lens and Camera
The new RF mount uses 12 contacts instead of the 8 contacts of the EF lenses for lens-camera
communication. New communication protocols and dedicated communication channels are
incorporated — which support large data transfers at very high speeds compared to current EF system.
The new RF system design anticipates ongoing innovations in future cameras as well as lenses. Even
with these changes, full support and compatibility for existing Canon EF and EF-S lenses remain."

Known new use cases:
- focus ring (by wire, no more mechanical rings)
- dlo data exchange
- control ring
- in-lens gyro and acceleration sensor data exchange
 
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hachu21

EOS 90D
Feb 11, 2014
112
32
Why ef-m got 9 pins instead of 8 on ef is still mysterious.... But maybe I found a clue in the dual IS tech page at canon-europe :
"To enable photographers to set even lower shutter speeds, camera makers have developed digital methods of stabilization. Combination IS, which was first seen in Canon's EOS M mirrorless cameras and is also built into the Canon EOS R, uses the motion vector detected by the image sensor to improve the effectiveness of the optical stabilization system. "
 
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Pierre Lagarde

Canon, Nikon and So on ...
Aug 4, 2020
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www.deviantart.com
Why ef-m got 9 pins instead of 8 on ef is still mysterious.... But maybe I found a clue in the dual IS tech page at canon-europe :
"To enable photographers to set even lower shutter speeds, camera makers have developed digital methods of stabilization. Combination IS, which was first seen in Canon's EOS M mirrorless cameras and is also built into the Canon EOS R, uses the motion vector detected by the image sensor to improve the effectiveness of the optical stabilization system. "
Well, on EOS M and first EOS R there is no in camera stabilisation for photography, only for video. So I guess that's the subject here.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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From Canon eos R system withepaper:
"Enhanced Electronic Communication between Lens and Camera
The new RF mount uses 12 contacts instead of the 8 contacts of the EF lenses for lens-camera
communication. New communication protocols and dedicated communication channels are
incorporated — which support large data transfers at very high speeds compared to current EF system.
The new RF system design anticipates ongoing innovations in future cameras as well as lenses. Even
with these changes, full support and compatibility for existing Canon EF and EF-S lenses remain."

Known new use cases:
- focus ring (by wire, no more mechanical rings)
- dlo data exchange
- control ring
- in-lens gyro and acceleration sensor data exchange
There are plenty of focus-by-wire lenses in the EF system. Every single STM lens, for example, plus a few others (most of which are older and have been discontinued).