Just for Jrista: 2014 Market Data

[takesome1]

I for one would be interested in seeing comparisons of pics taken in real situations that photographers face.
The shooter draws a conclusion, provides the RAW files and anyone can see if they draw the same conclusion.

This would be much better than the pointless technical banter that never proves anything or goes anywhere.

This is a very fair, valid request. A little difficult to do, but very worthwhile. What makes it hard is that it's actually very difficult to find sunsets/sunrises that do bottom out a, say D810. So it's hard to show the real difference, i.e. 'what's possible'. And if you do find the right high dynamic range scene, you're probably a landscape photographer who woke up at 2:30 am to shoot a sunrise at a beautiful location, not do a head-to-head test which is fairly challenging to do with the quickly changing light of a good sunrise/sunset. You also have to bracket both cameras all over the place so that you can go back home and then find the one where the highlights are just short of clipping, or where ACR can recover detail/color to taste.

I'm not saying it's impossible, it's usually just hard to do well. Hopefully someone will do it (well). I'll try at some point, maybe, before I sell off my 5D3.

I think it would be very easy. You are making the assumption that it would only be good in that type of situation. You are also still proving the technical function of the camera and not the in situation usable function of the camera. DR can improve pictures in many situations, your example is only one.

DR goes both ways, up and down. All day long you can take pictures and find situations where you loose detail and shadows and blow highlights. Whether it is a man in a shaded area or an picture that blows out the clouds all could use the help. Will an extra stop of DR help me? Will the extra stop be usable or will it have to much noise? I go through my pictures and pull down the highlights to get the sky, draw up the shadows to see a bit more detail. To my eye I would want to know which does it best.

It doesn't need to be a controlled scientific test. You gather a random sampling of pictures through the day identical in both bodies. At the end you PP and you have injected your style and your skill level in to the test. The results are yours and you have an answer. I am sure you will find along the way that both body has advantages and disadvantages. You will find one lens is probably better than the other.

But in the end the final result wins for you. Although on a given day the photographer at 2:30 on the mountain may have a different winner.

Side note is that when the D800 was first released I investigated this for myself to see what the benefit might be. That was over 2 years ago and the debates were few at first. It is interesting that it has blown up in to such a huge topic.

 

[sarangiman]

It doesn't need to be a controlled scientific test. You gather a random sampling of pictures through the day identical in both bodies. At the end you PP and you have injected your style and your skill level in to the test. The results are yours and you have an answer. I am sure you will find along the way that both body has advantages and disadvantages.

Oh, well if that's all you or I wanted, then I already have my 'data' and answer. I shot with the 5Dc, 5D2, and 5D3 for years and have tens of thousands of images from them. And amongst them, I've run into read noise and banding many-a-time.

Since owning the A7R and D810, I've never seen any offensive noise upon post-processing. Ever.

Side note is that when the D800 was first released I investigated this for myself to see what the benefit might be. That was over 2 years ago and the debates were few at first. It is interesting that it has blown up in to such a huge topic.

Yeah, and at this point Nikon/Sony are even building off of that incredible sensor. The D810 offers a half to 2/3 EV more DR than the D800 even. None of the shadows in any of the numerous sunsets and sunrises I've shot so far with the D810 have any offensive noise. I now leave my 4x6 graduated ND filters at home. I'll typically take at least 3-4 shots though so that on the off-chance I want less shot noise in my shadows, I can just layer them in PS and average them. Which, btw, is easier than HDR.

 

[dgatwood]

This is a very fair, valid request. A little difficult to do, but very worthwhile. What makes it hard is that it's actually very difficult to find sunsets/sunrises that do bottom out a, say D810. So it's hard to show the real difference, i.e. 'what's possible'. And if you do find the right high dynamic range scene, you're probably a landscape photographer who woke up at 2:30 am to shoot a sunrise at a beautiful location, not do a head-to-head test which is fairly challenging to do with the quickly changing light of a good sunrise/sunset. You also have to bracket both cameras all over the place so that you can go back home and then find the one where the highlights are just short of clipping, or where ACR can recover detail/color to taste.

You want a good test case for high-contrast scenes? Check your local high school's website and see when they're doing their school play. Bring your cameras with wide-angle lenses. During the curtain call, shoot a wide shot of the entire stage.

 

[sarangiman]

You want a good test case for high-contrast scenes? Check your local high school's website and see when they're doing their school play. Bring your cameras with wide-angle lenses. During the curtain call, shoot a wide shot of the entire stage.

If that's a joke, I don't get it.

 

[Woody]

Thought it may be the right time to resurrect this old thread.

When I look at the latest DSLR best seller list on Amazon USA recently, I am shocked that Canon is taking a very severe beating in sales. This has been going on for several weeks now (from about Nov 2014 till early Dec 2014).

Never expected this.

The unending gripes on the internet forum are showing their influences now...

 

[JohanCruyff]

Thought it may be the right time to resurrect this old thread.

When I look at the latest DSLR best seller list on Amazon USA recently, I am shocked that Canon is taking a very severe beating in sales. This has been going on for several weeks now (from about Nov 2014 till early Dec 2014).

Never expected this.

The unending gripes on the internet forum are showing their influences now...

For what it's worth, Amazon.it:
1. Nikon D3300 + 18-55 VR
2. Canon 1200D + 18-55 IS
3. Canon 700D (T5i) + 18-55 IS STM
4. Nikon D3200 + 18-105 VR
5. Canon 100D (SL1) + 18-55 IS STM
6. Nikon D3300 + 18-105 VR
7. Nikon D800
8. Canon 70D
9. Canon 600D (T3i) + 18-55 IS
10. Canon 1200D + 18-55 DC


I'm sure that these figures reflect the Black Friday effects (it included D800 and D3200, if I remember well) and by the Winter Cashback.

In January we will be able to see unbiased sales.

 

[Loswr]

I'm sure that these figures reflect the Black Friday effects (it included D800 and D3200, if I remember well)...

Retailers will often offer deep 'Black Friday/Cyber Monday' discounts on items of which they have excess stock...one reason for that excess stock is items not selling as well as expected earlier in the year.

 

[lw]

For what it's worth, Amazon.it:
1. Nikon D3300 + 18-55 VR
2. Canon 1200D + 18-55 IS
3. Canon 700D (T5i) + 18-55 IS STM
4. Nikon D3200 + 18-105 VR
5. Canon 100D (SL1) + 18-55 IS STM
6. Nikon D3300 + 18-105 VR
7. Nikon D800
8. Canon 70D
9. Canon 600D (T3i) + 18-55 IS
10. Canon 1200D + 18-55 DC

Similar in UK http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/electronics/14335821/ref=sr_bs_1
12 of the top 20 are Canon

 

[Maximilian]

When I look at the latest DSLR best seller list on Amazon USA recently...

I wouldn't give too much on such retailers rankings.

They measure just short time periods and are updated several times a day, maybe each hour.
And of course the actual discount strategy of the certain retailer is having a high influence on the rankings.
If they would give a ranking over a time period of at least a month, this would be more informative.
But again, it's just one retailer.

But if it really is as you suppose, I hope that Canon is drawing their conclusions from that.
But I also hope they're doing it anyhow.

 

[jeffa4444]

I have some GfK data published in September at Photokina.

High End camera market share was broken down. On a golabalized basis for 2014 crop DSLRs represented 18% of the market, Full frame DSLRs were around 3% of the market, CSC 8% of the market (both cropped & full frame). Bridge cameras with 10X optical zooms are at 35% of the market, and bridge cameras with 10 - 20X zooms 12% and Bridge cameras with fixed lenses 8%. The rest was made-up of Fixed lens large sensor, Fixed lens travel zoom, & Fixed lens other what ever that means.

If you look at the 25 year picture SLRs / DSLRs averaged around 8.5M units annually so the market whilst contracting significantly from the peak of nearly 17M is still above the historical norm and even adjusting for population growth and economic changes higher than the norm.

GfK gathers information globally from a large group of outlets and their reports are bought by the industry.

Vitec Group which owns Manfrotto & Gitzo have reported slowing sales in the stills market and they predominately sell to keen amateurs, semi-pros & pros. Maybe its market saturation or maybe its lack of real disruptive change, maybe its the hang-over from resession. Either way consumers have slowed down their replacement cycle.

 

[ritholtz]

Canon is flipping boat load of 70D's by tagging them refurbished.

 

[Diko]

More than 45 days after the last topic post I am revisiting especially for our beloved Jrista in order to update it with some Canon Financial Results 2014 and two additional summaries. First one & Second one

In short:

Results

Within the Imaging System Business Unit, although sales volume of interchangeable-lens digital cameras declined owing to the shrinking market—in Japan as a result of the reaction following the rush in demand prior to the consumption tax increase, and in Europe and other markets due to worsening economic conditions—the advanced-amateur-model EOS 7D Mark II achieved healthy growth, enabling Canon to maintain the market’s top share.

Outlook

As for the digital camera market, although projections indicate continued market contraction mainly for low-priced compact models, demand for interchangeable-lens digital cameras is expected to recover gradually.

And the most interesting part

As for the industrial equipment market, with manufacturers expected to continue making capital outlays for semiconductor lithography equipment in response to increasing demand for memory devices and image sensors, demand is expected to remain at the same level as the previous year. And as for FPD lithography equipment, demand is projected to increase as device manufacturers boost capital investment amid growing panel demand projected for 4K televisions and mobile devices.

Would that mean update of the old 0.5 tech? As well as using the SONY systems or CANON own 5 layer CMOS? ;-)

2015 - good times!

Imaging System
2015 - 1,399,000
2014 - 1,343,194
2013 - 1,448,938

Business share of Imaging systems:
2015 - 64 %
2014 - 64 %
2013 - 67 %

R&D EXPENDITURE (based on constant 8.2% of sales) in Millions of yen

2015 - N/A out of 320,000!!!
2014 - 84,377 out of 308,979
2013 - 87,510 out of 306,324